[Ck02623]

Alright, this is a problem that has been bothering me for some time now. I have the BC 80 gig PS3, and I normally play in 1080p but when playing 480i PS2 games through HDMI, as you probably know, there is/can be noticeable input lag.


To combat this I have hooked up component cables, and when I play PS2 games I force 480i through display settings, as I understand this might help with the input lag, since the ps3 is no longer de-interlacing.


The problem is, I have been so compulsive about this that I'm beginning to wonder if that helps the input lag or not; I'm driving myself crazy with it and I'm starting to wonder if the lag is still there through 480i component or if I'm just imagining it.


Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

[TornadoTJ]

You can turn off the upscaling of PS2 games. IIRC there are a couple of different settings for this. I can't look at mine, I sold my 80gb BC unit a few months ago.

 

[Ck02623]

That's true but even with the upscaling off, all of the 480i native games are de-interlaced through HDMI, creating input lag.

 

[zBuff]

It could be the display which is creating lag when upscaling, you could test it on a different TV. What TV do you have?

 

[uni_panther]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ck02623 Alright, this is a problem that has been bothering me for some time now. I have the BC 80 gig PS3, and I normally play in 1080p but when playing 480i PS2 games through HDMI, as you probably know, there is/can be noticeable input lag. To combat this I have hooked up component cables, and when I play PS2 games I force 480i through display settings, as I understand this might help with the input lag, since the ps3 is no longer de-interlacing. The problem is, I have been so compulsive about this that I'm beginning to wonder if that helps the input lag or not; I'm driving myself crazy with it and I'm starting to wonder if the lag is still there through 480i component or if I'm just imagining it. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Really it probably comes down to your tv. While obviously scaling adds input lag and the tv having to deinterlace adds input lag it can vary whether it is HDMI or component that performs better. It varies tv to tv.


In fact in theory HDMI should be better as with component you have an extra digital to analog conversion because it has to be converted from digital to analog from the PS3 to your tv on component and then at the tv it has to be converted back to digital for deinterlacing at the tv, but again this isn't set in stone on which will be better. It depends on the circuitry of the tv.


I think you will be able to impact input lag much more by what type of post processing is going on at the tv level, advanced picture controls and all that entails.


If you are already in game mode then you should check your tv and see if any of your HDMI inputs are labled as PC inputs and try that as it tends to cut down on post processing.


The bottom line is like you have stated, since the tv has to both scale and deinterlace the PS2 games are notorious for this, any differences you are seeing are from your tv panel circuitry and how it handles the signal.

 

[Ck02623]

I appreciate your responses, but it is not TV-end; I have game mode enabled and every possible post-processing function disabled on every input - as I said I am very compulsive.


I should have been more specific - HDMI through PS3 disallows 480i entirely in all cases, so all native 480i games are de-interlaced and up-scaled poorly by the PS3 itself, creating input lag (not to mention horrible artifacts and jagged edges). I have discussed this with others and tested this against a PS2 proper on length before with results confirming my suspicions (on my television).


When hooking up through component the PS3 allows you to output 480i, and my question was simply does the 80gig PS3's software-driven PS2 emulation still create input lag, or was that simply a result of the de-interlacing of 480i games to progressive, be it 480p or 1080p.

 

[confidenceman]

Regardless of the root cause, the only solution is to play on a PS2 hooked up to a CRT. Otherwise, you just have to learn to live with some lag. You can minimize it to some degree on newer sets, but if you're sensitive to it, you'll always notice it.

 

[uni_panther]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ck02623 I appreciate your responses, but it is not TV-end; I have game mode enabled and every possible post-processing function disabled on every input - as I said I am very compulsive. I should have been more specific - HDMI through PS3 disallows 480i entirely in all cases, so all native 480i games are de-interlaced and up-scaled poorly by the PS3 itself, creating input lag (not to mention horrible artifacts and jagged edges). I have discussed this with others and tested this against a PS2 proper on length before with results confirming my suspicions (on my television). When hooking up through component the PS3 allows you to output 480i, and my question was simply does the 80gig PS3's software-driven PS2 emulation still create input lag, or was that simply a result of the de-interlacing of 480i games to progressive, be it 480p or 1080p.

Doing it at the player should cut down on input lag rather than doing it at the display. The same reason why many people who play fighters actually force 1080p at the PS3 rather than the tv because it reduces the input lag. They choose poor scaling at the PS3 for less input lag. I don't see how you would create more input lag at the player end.


I mean input lag is a delay between the signal being sent and your display showing that signal. When you scale or deinterlace at the player all of this is being done before the signal is sent. I don't understand how it would be worse unless it is your tvs specific interal circuitry and how it deals with the signal and that simply can't be changed.

 

[Ck02623]



Quote:
Originally Posted by uni_panther /forum/post/20779241


Doing it at the player should cut down on input lag rather than doing it at the display. The same reason why many people who play fighters actually force 1080p at the PS3 rather than the tv because it reduces the input lag. They choose poor scaling at the PS3 for less input lag. I don't see how you would create more input lag at the player end.


I mean input lag is a delay between the signal being sent and your display showing that signal. When you scale or deinterlace at the player all of this is being done before the signal is sent. I don't understand how it would be worse unless it is your tvs specific interal circuitry and how it deals with the signal and that simply can't be changed.

It is discussed here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=753069

 

[uni_panther]

So if you think component will solve the issue why not just use component cables? The PS3 allows 1080p for gaming but as stated you know the software scaling on games that support it is poor and you are wanting to output 480i anyway so this is a non issue.


Even if you use your PS3 as a blu-ray player it allows 1080i for bluray movies. Obviously you have a flat panel progressive display so as long as the tv deinterlaces properly you are still getting a full 1920x1080 image in progressive format as your display has no choice but to display it progressively so really 1080i=1080p. Movies don't have to worry about input lag so what is the issue with using component all the time then? It seems it would be the solution that best fits your scenario.


Even if you are using external sound you can just use HDMI for audio and component for video. That is your best case scenario.


If you are still having issues and getting lag that bothers you then you will simply have to get a another HDTV display that is known for the least amount of input lag or use a CRT and a PS2. I realize that isn't the answer you are looking for but the best thing you can possibly do is use component cables, the rest is on your own display and its own circuitry. All flat panels will have some measureable input lag. There is just no way around it. I don't see what is wrong with just using component.


If you are using component and just wondering if the lag is there or not, then obviously it isn't a major issue if you aren't sure it is there. You will just have to put up with the artifacting and jaggies from the extra D/A conversion and the fact that PS2 or PS1 games just don't look that great in HD. I'm not sure what else to say about it.