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I just want to see inside the box. With that shape it is a mystery to me what the thermal solution is. I want it to be a big fan making less noise but I don't see where it would fit. And although I think not showing the back was more about the ports. If there's vents then we would know small fast spinning, aka loud, fans are likely.

But I expect something innovative. Maybe axial fans on either side where it widens toward the base? I'm spitballing here 😆

Good point.



They could use heat pipe technology to pull heat away from critical components to the edges of the case where they blow it out with fan/fans. Perhaps with all the case volume the smaller fan/fans would not need to run very fast (normally).


A traditional tower design has hot-spots where the airflow is not consistent, so, the fans have to run faster to keep everything cooled. An improved design might eliminate those with perhaps heat pipes or by designing the airflow for the specific components..
 

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Pricing.

Digital $499.99
Disc $599.99
Can you provide a source?
His imagination. How does a ~$20 Blu-ray drive save you a hundred bucks?

My guess
$500 with optical drive
$450 digital (Sony can make up difference with extra percentage of PS Store sales vs retail)

But you can throw any price that's around $300-$600 for PS5, PS5 DE, Series X, Lockhart, and be close to, or hit the correct number.
 

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How does a ~$20 Blu-ray drive save you a hundred bucks?
It won't. But Sony can take a bigger loss on that console because people with the DE are forced
to buy digital versions of the games. And in most cases people will buy them straight from the PS Store.
Which means that Sony gets more money from these purchases.
Furthermore, prices on the PSN usually do not drop that fast compared to the physical versions.

Therefore a 100 USD difference is not even that unrealistic.
Depending on how Microsoft is pricing Lockart/Series S, I could imagine that they will price the DE even
more aggressive.

My guesses are:
PS5: $ 499 | 499 € | £ 449
PS5 DE: $ 399 |399 € | £ 349

Big IF: If Microsoft prices Lockart at around 250 - 299 € I could see Sony dropping the price of
the DE to around $ 349.
 

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It won't. But Sony can take a bigger loss on that console because people with the DE are forced
to buy digital versions of the games. And in most cases people will buy them straight from the PS Store.
Which means that Sony gets more money from these purchases.
Furthermore, prices on the PSN usually do not drop that fast compared to the physical versions.

Therefore a 100 USD difference is not even that unrealistic.
Depending on how Microsoft is pricing Lockart/Series S, I could imagine that they will price the DE even
more aggressive.

My guesses are:
PS5: $ 499 | 499 € | £ 449
PS5 DE: $ 399 |399 € | £ 349

Big IF: If Microsoft prices Lockart at around 250 - 299 € I could see Sony dropping the price of
the DE to around $ 349.

We might as well ask how could Microsoft price Lockhart that cheap if the only difference is fewer GPU cores in the APU and no Blu-Ray?


PS5 should already have a price (/yield) advantage over the Series X due to requiring fewer functional GPU cores; but the Lockhart APU's could be reduced in cost as they may very well be using the same Series-X APU that failed on 1 or more GPU cores; but I doubt AMD is just giving away their rejected dies. Might be $50 in cost savings?
 

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We might as well ask how could Microsoft price Lockhart that cheap if the only difference is fewer GPU cores in the APU and no Blu-Ray?

PS5 should already have a price (/yield) advantage over the Series X due to requiring fewer functional GPU cores; but the Lockhart APU's could be reduced in cost as they may very well be using the same Series-X APU that failed on 1 or more GPU cores; but I doubt AMD is just giving away their rejected dies. Might be $50 in cost savings?
I think it is a pretty common practice to use lower-tier CPU/GPU dies.
AMD is doing the same with their Zen Desktop dies. I guess
there is no reason for AMD to not allow Sony or Microsoft to do the same.
In the end AMD can be happy that they sell even more dies.

Luckily we do not have to wait that much longer
for Sony and Microsoft to announce the pricing of their Next-Gen consoles.

Beside that we are still talking about Microsoft. They have the money to sell
their console at a loss.
 

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I think it is a pretty common practice to use lower-tier CPU/GPU dies.
AMD is doing the same with their Zen Desktop dies. I guess
there is no reason for AMD to not allow Sony or Microsoft to do the same.
In the end AMD can be happy that they sell even more dies.

Luckily we do not have to wait that much longer
for Sony and Microsoft to announce the pricing of their Next-Gen consoles.

Beside that we are still talking about Microsoft. They have the money to sell
their console at a loss.

It depends on yield and volume. It's easier with a standard line because there are far more varieties offered. For instance a chip that won't pass tests at 5GHz may be re-qualified and sold at 4.5GHz. Or if only 6 cores of an 8 core part pass, it can be resold as 6 core part.


AMD could certainly be building a unique die for Lockhart as you suggest, but unless AMD has other customers for the die there are massive up front and tooling costs and reducing the volume of the Series X die increases the cost of that part.


But yes, Microsoft can certainly take a loss on the device and try to make it up with games sales and subscription; but aren't they already dipping in to that well by selling their device at or near cost?


A lot of the markup in a product goes to pay overhead expenses (ie, keeping the lights on, paying R&D/Marketing/Accounting/etc).



Sony apparently isn't gearing up to produce many units in the first year. If they started giving away the PS5, we'd just see eBay'ers buying them up and reselling the box at a markup that Sony could have easily collected in the first place due to their market position.Will we see the same with Lockhart? Watch out if someone figures out a way to run Windows or Linux on it. Giving away hardware tends to create false economies for a product.
 

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Sony apparently isn't gearing up to produce many units in the first year. If they started giving away the PS5, we'd just see eBay'ers buying them up and reselling the box at a markup that Sony could have easily collected in the first place due to their market position.Will we see the same with Lockhart? Watch out if someone figures out a way to run Windows or Linux on it. Giving away hardware tends to create false economies for a product.

If yields are as low as predicted for this Christmas season, eBay scalpers will be all over this with huge markups -- no matter the MSRP. Anyone who wants a PS5 this year at retail price will need to jump on pre-orders immediately.
 

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His imagination. How does a ~$20 Blu-ray drive save you a hundred bucks?

My guess
$500 with optical drive
$450 digital (Sony can make up difference with extra percentage of PS Store sales vs retail)

But you can throw any price that's around $300-$600 for PS5, PS5 DE, Series X, Lockhart, and be close to, or hit the correct number.
?? The price of a component in an electronic device not necessarily have a bearing on what the retail price is. A $20 part is typically not going to be a $20 difference in price. It could be $50, $100 or no difference in price at all.
 

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We might as well ask how could Microsoft price Lockhart that cheap if the only difference is fewer GPU cores in the APU and no Blu-Ray?


PS5 should already have a price (/yield) advantage over the Series X due to requiring fewer functional GPU cores; but the Lockhart APU's could be reduced in cost as they may very well be using the same Series-X APU that failed on 1 or more GPU cores; but I doubt AMD is just giving away their rejected dies. Might be $50 in cost savings?
Not sure about a price advantage. The PS5 is huge. Plus with the super fast NVMe drive, that is not an inexpensive component. And it will pump out a bunch of heat at the raw, 44Gbps speeds. More reason they needed a massive console for cooling. All that adds to the price of their components.

And Sony is not in the best position to take a massive loss on their console. Not like Microsoft is. The one bright spot with Sony is Playstation. Not much else makes money in their corporation lately.

I just hope they announce pricing soon for the PS5 and XBSX. And they start accepting preorders. So I can place my order for both systems.
 

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His imagination. How does a ~$20 Blu-ray drive save you a hundred bucks?

My guess
$500 with optical drive
$450 digital (Sony can make up difference with extra percentage of PS Store sales vs retail)

But you can throw any price that's around $300-$600 for PS5, PS5 DE, Series X, Lockhart, and be close to, or hit the correct number.
?? The price of a component in an electronic device not necessarily have a bearing on what the retail price is. A $20 part is typically not going to be a $20 difference in price. It could be $50, $100 or no difference in price at all.
I know it wouldn't cost Sony or MS what a drive costs. They'd get them in bulk. Even if they got them for a dollar, they'd need millions made.

PS5 being cheaper than Series X could be tough. The SSD is on MOBO and isn't cheap, but the reported BOM is $450. So, that's not bad.

And PS5's SSD raw speed is 5.5GB/s, not 44.
5.5GB/s raw
8-9GB/s compressed (typical)
22GB/s theoretical peak of Kraken
 

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We might as well ask how could Microsoft price Lockhart that cheap if the only difference is fewer GPU cores in the APU and no Blu-Ray?


PS5 should already have a price (/yield) advantage over the Series X due to requiring fewer functional GPU cores; but the Lockhart APU's could be reduced in cost as they may very well be using the same Series-X APU that failed on 1 or more GPU cores; but I doubt AMD is just giving away their rejected dies. Might be $50 in cost savings?
MS is all in on game pass and cloud services. They very well could look at taking a loss on the series x as an investment in that.

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk
 

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I know it wouldn't cost Sony or MS what a drive costs. They'd get them in bulk. Even if they got them for a dollar, they'd need millions made.

PS5 being cheaper than Series X could be tough. The SSD is on MOBO and isn't cheap, but the reported BOM is $450. So, that's not bad.

And PS5's SSD raw speed is 5.5GB/s, not 44.
5.5GB/s raw
8-9GB/s compressed (typical)
22GB/s theoretical peak of Kraken
The RAW speed is definitely 44Gb/s. You are just confusing Gigabytes and Gigabits.
5.5GB/s is 44Gb/s.
5.5 Gigabytes per second is the same as 44 Gigabits per second.
 
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?? The price of a component in an electronic device not necessarily have a bearing on what the retail price is. A $20 part is typically not going to be a $20 difference in price. It could be $50, $100 or no difference in price at all.

From an engineering/business POV, there's a direct correlation (a multiplier) that takes in to account stocking parts, building the product, testing the product, paying overhead expenses, sustaining a profit margin, and then there are markups along the distribution/retail chain; but yeah, marketing and others can get involved and decide to inflate or deflate that value.


On the other hand, we may be overestimating the cost of something like a UHD drive when purchased as an OEM module in quantities of millions.
 

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Not sure about a price advantage. The PS5 is huge. Plus with the super fast NVMe drive, that is not an inexpensive component. And it will pump out a bunch of heat at the raw, 44Gbps speeds. More reason they needed a massive console for cooling. All that adds to the price of their components.

And Sony is not in the best position to take a massive loss on their console. Not like Microsoft is. The one bright spot with Sony is Playstation. Not much else makes money in their corporation lately.

I just hope they announce pricing soon for the PS5 and XBSX. And they start accepting preorders. So I can place my order for both systems.
It's possible Sony's NVME drive speed is more about design than components. When you use 12 separate flash chips and put them all in parallel and don't bottle-neck them, they are going to run very fast. Are they paying a premium for faster chips than Microsoft is using? Don't know.

And for instance, while a bigger case might be more expensive to produce than a smaller case, if the product is faster to assemble that cost may be moot.

Technically, neither company should be willing to accept a loss; it's more a matter of whether they are willing to prioritize future profits over short-term profits AND are able to get it funded internally or externally. And just because Microsoft is sitting on a big pile of cash, doesn't mean they want to spend it all on the Xbox. The "bean counters" will want to consider all their investment opportunities and which will have the best return.


I also believe the price difference between the XBox One and the PS4 has been completely blown out of proportion and people are ignoring/forgetting a) the hate Microsoft created in their introduction, b) Sony's focus on excellent first party games AND independent developers, c) Sony's advantages outside the US.



The XBox One X is from everything I've heard a terrific console, but it barely made a dent in the market. I could had bought one for $250 with a trade-in deal of a PS4 I wasn't using, and even that didn't cause me to pull the trigger. Gaining significant market share in the console market is tricky and depending on Microsoft's PC gaming strategy - perhaps even unnecessary for the sake of selling games and game pass subscriptions.
 

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It's possible Sony's NVME drive speed is more about design than components. When you use 12 separate flash chips and put them all in parallel and don't bottle-neck them, they are going to run very fast. Are they paying a premium for faster chips than Microsoft is using? Don't know.
The chips can be sourced from several vendors, so I expect their cost to be comparable. But the flash controller is custom silicon and that'll be expensive. And it supports 5.5GB/s of bandwidth with a dedicated compression block. It is going to generate a good bit of heat and will need associated cooling. I think it is possible that the cost of the NVMe drive is close to the APU's.
 

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I know it wouldn't cost Sony or MS what a drive costs. They'd get them in bulk. Even if they got them for a dollar, they'd need millions made.

PS5 being cheaper than Series X could be tough. The SSD is on MOBO and isn't cheap, but the reported BOM is $450. So, that's not bad.

And PS5's SSD raw speed is 5.5GB/s, not 44.
5.5GB/s raw
8-9GB/s compressed (typical)
22GB/s theoretical peak of Kraken
The RAW speed is definitely 44Gb/s. You are just confusing Gigabytes and Gigabits.
5.5GB/s is 44Gb/s.
5.5 Gigabytes per second is the same as 44 Gigabits per second.
Oh. Gotcha. Threw me off because Sony, MS and no one else are writing in Gbps (I even see it now in your post), lol. That's like saying PS5 has 128Gb of RAM.

Moving on, PS5 game cases have been revealed:
 

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The chips can be sourced from several vendors, so I expect their cost to be comparable. But the flash controller is custom silicon and that'll be expensive. And it supports 5.5GB/s of bandwidth with a dedicated compression block. It is going to generate a good bit of heat and will need associated cooling. I think it is possible that the cost of the NVMe drive is close to the APU's.

A flash controller is necessary for both products and both products also feature hardware decompression. Do we even know at this point if they are actually separate chips and not just built-in to the AMD APU?


More heat due to higher speeds or just more chips is certainly a possibility. I'm not sure it compares to the heat from overclocking the GPU, though.



The XBox also has extra heat due to the higher CPU speed and additional GPU cores.
 

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This will be such a good value if the price is 500$
 
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