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Discussion Starter #21
If you start downloading now, you might have all the clips by the time you get the subs. ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-dedicated-theater-design-construction/1412846-ultimate-bass-demo-disc.html
While I might do some targeted demos, I really want to focus on enjoying content the way I enjoy content regularly. Listening to whole songs or albums. Watching entire movies. Yeah, it's fun to demo some great scenes--but that will definitely be the minority of my testing.
 

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Test Material - Movies (Updated 3/19)

I'm keeping this list relatively short--limiting it to what I have on Blu Ray as well as keeping it short as I intend to watch the full movie rather than selecting individual scenes.

The Dark Knight
The Avengers
Iron Man
The Matrix
Pirates of the Caribbean
Harry Potter (Random selection--probably the last 2 though)

Dude, how do you not have the undisputed world heavyweight champion of deep bass extension, War of the Worlds? :confused:
 
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Dude, how do you not have the undisputed world heavyweight champion of deep bass extension, War of the Worlds? :confused:
...or "Pulse" and its server room scene with single digit bass. :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Dude, how do you not have the undisputed world heavyweight champion of deep bass extension, War of the Worlds? :confused:
Because that movie was so mind-numbingly awful, I would never watch it. Why would I care about testing my new products in ways I would never use them?

I'm really trying to avoid the standard "check out these dozen scenes." Yes, I get that they may represent a great sample set that tests the bounds of a subwoofer; however, I'd rather know that content I love sounds great.
 

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Because that movie was so mind-numbingly awful, I would never watch it. Why would I care about testing my new products in ways I would never use them?

I'm really trying to avoid the standard "check out these dozen scenes." Yes, I get that they may represent a great sample set that tests the bounds of a subwoofer; however, I'd rather know that content I love sounds great.
This will be really interesting then, don't think I've ever seen this type of comparison. It's also gonna take forever and make it difficult to pick a winner.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
This will be really interesting then, don't think I've ever seen this type of comparison. It's also gonna take forever and make it difficult to pick a winner.
It's not that I won't pick good material; it's that I don't want to focus on just things that people have identified as "having great bass" and instead focus on the material that I like.

I'll be listening to every song and watching every movie on this list in their entirety on both subwoofers while I work to make a decision. I'm sure I'll add other individual scenes.

I'm gonna take notes and share them here. The way I look at it: there's no wrong answer. :D
 
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It's not that I won't pick good material; it's that I don't want to focus on just things that people have identified as "having great bass" and instead focus on the material that I like.

I'll be listening to every song and watching every movie on this list in their entirety on both subwoofers while I work to make a decision. I'm sure I'll add other individual scenes.

I'm gonna take notes and share them here. The way I look at it: there's no wrong answer. :D
Nathien, I think you have it all covered my friend. Watch and listen to entire albums and BD movies. I think since you have no experience with PSA subwoofers but know what you like and are familiar with subject material you're are on the right track. By listening to entire source material you will become very accustomed to the PSA sound. Having owned most all of them it will become a matter of preference for you, and only you can determine which is best for your room and listening habits. I think you're doing the right thing, isn't it nice to know you get to audition two subs with very limited financial risk.
You have the best of both worlds and get to eat your cake as well. Enjoy and happy listening my friend.

I would have ordered duals of each...................;):D
Cheers Jeffrey
 

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Discussion Starter #28
By listening to entire source material you will become very accustomed to the PSA sound. Having owned most all of them it will become a matter of preference for you, and only you can determine which is best for your room and listening habits. I think you're doing the right thing, isn't it nice to know you get to audition two subs with very limited financial risk.
It really is. It's actually kinda funny--I was just thinking a minute ago about how when people ask for suggestions about auditioning subwoofers and speakers with music, the biggest piece of advice given is to bring your own music that you know well so you can decide if you like it. But, when it comes to movies, there's always the advice that boils down to Edge of Tomorrow, Black Hawk Down, and War of the Worlds. I haven't seen the first, I was kinda "meh" on the second, and I absolutely hated the 3rd. :p

Edit: That's not to say they aren't good demo material; I just find the dichotomy of the advice interesting and somewhat amusing.

I would have ordered duals of each...................;):D
I really considered it! But, knowing that it was going to be a while before I actually received them (I ordered on 2/18), the financial implication of having $5k floated on my credit card instead of $2500 was more than I was willing to take on. Factoring in the lead time and the demo time, the interest charges from having 2 extra subs for what I knew would be a minimum of 2 months seemed like something I could avoid.
 
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To really perform a valid comparison, you need to measure your response for both subs and then get their response so they mimic each other as best as possible.

If you don't do this, the subs will likely have very different responses. Your subjective opinion of which one is better will be primarily which response you prefer, not which sub you prefer.

Since you're comparing ported vs sealed, after eq the response will start to differ a lot under the ported subs tune...which is ok.

If you don't have eq capability, then at the very least, use rew to measure your response to give you a better understanding of what you are hearing with both subs.
 

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To really perform a valid comparison, you need to measure your response for both subs and then get their response so they mimic each other as best as possible.

If you don't do this, the subs will likely have very different responses. Your subjective opinion of which one is better will be primarily which response you prefer, not which sub you prefer.

Since you're comparing ported vs sealed, after eq the response will start to differ a lot under the ported subs tune...which is ok.

If you don't have eq capability, then at the very least, use rew to measure your response to give you a better understanding of what you are hearing with both subs.
I see this argument a lot and it makes sense, but sometimes I wonder if there is merit to picking the sub whose natural response you prefer. I mean if you prefer what it sounds with no eq then wouldn't that put you closer to perfecting how you want it to sound? Picking the sub that has the strengths where you prefer them seems like a decent way to go about it if all you care about is determining a winner for you and nobody else.
 

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I see this argument a lot and it makes sense, but sometimes I wonder if there is merit to picking the sub whose natural response you prefer. I mean if you prefer what it sounds with no eq then wouldn't that put you closer to perfecting how you want it to sound? Picking the sub that has the strengths where you prefer them seems like a decent way to go about it if all you care about is determining a winner for you and nobody else.
There's nothing inherently wrong with that, it's just not very meaningful to anyone else. Without measurements, the OP is picking what 'sounds' best to him. What 'sounds' best to him has no reference and therefore others won't be able to gain anything from it as his preference does not likely match what another person's preference. For example, the OP may like a big hump at 50hz, and as a result states that one of them hits harder than the other. Does it mean that the sub with the 50hz hump is better? No, it just means the OP likes that response better. With EQ, any sub can be dialed in to match any freq response in the subs' passband.

If the OP was able to achieve a flat response for both subs and compare, now everyone has a reference (flat response) to compare to, and his subjective opinions would have more meaning for others.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
If the OP was able to achieve a flat response for both subs and compare, now everyone has a reference (flat response) to compare to, and his subjective opinions would have more meaning for others.
Well, I'll have REW, a UMIK-1, and a MiniDSP to work with. I'm quite a novice with all of them; but, I am going to do my best to combine those with Audyssey XT32 to get as flat as possible in a short timeframe.
 

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If you like nine inch nails, and if you haven't seen Resident Evil 4 (Afterlife). You will probably like it. Unless you don't like zombie movies. I like the music and the action in it. And Milla Jovovish. :) It has a lot of synthesized music in it. If you have 3D get the 3D version. :) But there is better movies with deep bass.

My favorite test song for bass thump in the chest is Dires Straight - Money for Nothing. The starting of the song where the drums come in. Its not a real low bass tone, but it makes some serious pressure spikes if you have the drivers and the SPL. Drums are good for testing out how tight and articulate the subs will play IMO.

And if you want just bass, there is also this old classic. :)
 

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There's nothing inherently wrong with that, it's just not very meaningful to anyone else. Without measurements, the OP is picking what 'sounds' best to him. What 'sounds' best to him has no reference and therefore others won't be able to gain anything from it as his preference does not likely match what another person's preference. For example, the OP may like a big hump at 50hz, and as a result states that one of them hits harder than the other. Does it mean that the sub with the 50hz hump is better? No, it just means the OP likes that response better. With EQ, any sub can be dialed in to match any freq response in the subs' passband.

If the OP was able to achieve a flat response for both subs and compare, now everyone has a reference (flat response) to compare to, and his subjective opinions would have more meaning for others.
Understood. I have a feeling if he were to do that successfully it would save him considerable cash as well.
@nalthien I apologize if you mentioned this already and I missed it, but how loud do you listen?
 

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Discussion Starter #35
@nalthien I apologize if you mentioned this already and I missed it, but how loud do you listen?
It depends. If we're watching a movie all together on the weekend, -10dB is pretty common. If I'm watching a movie in the evening after the kids are in bed, it's usually between -15dB and -20dB.

Music (empty house): I get up to reference at times. Typically -10dB.
Music (evenings): Typically -20dB to -25dB
Music (with kids): Somewhere in between those two. :)

I can't wait to see the look on my daughter's face when we watch Big Hero 6 with the new subwoofers. She's going to love it! And, my son? Lightning McQueen will sound pretty outstanding!
 

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Well, I'll have REW, a UMIK-1, and a MiniDSP to work with. I'm quite a novice with all of them; but, I am going to do my best to combine those with Audyssey XT32 to get as flat as possible in a short timeframe.
Awesome! :D

This will be a great read then! :cool:
 

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The same driver in a ported enclosure will dominate down to tunning compared to a sealed box. Even with two drivers in a sealed box it demand more power, have increase distortion and be a few db down compared to the ported box down to tunning. For that size room with only 2 subs, forget about the ULF and concentrate on the 17 Hz and above. Get some transducers for the extra kick.
 

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...or "Pulse" and its server room scene with single digit bass. :eek:
I do not think the Server scene has single digit bass...I believe it is centered around 16hz. Although it is probably one of the best scenes out there for 16-20hz output. If your subs can handle this scene at reference then you have a system that will play 99% of all source material with no trouble.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
The same driver in a ported enclosure will dominate down to tunning compared to a sealed box. Even with two drivers in a sealed box it demand more power, have increase distortion and be a few db down compared to the ported box down to tunning. For that size room with only 2 subs, forget about the ULF and concentrate on the 17 Hz and above. Get some transducers for the extra kick.
If I can get response flat from 18-100, I'll feel good about it in my room. I expect even 18 is going to be a tough sell for a room with my dimensions; but, we'll have to wait and find out.
 
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I think the V1500 is +/- 3dB 16Hz-100Hz. Shouldn't be a problem even in a very large room to be flat to 18Hz. Even the S3000i should be able to be close to that.
 
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