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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a d***** if you do and d***** if you don't post. I have a PGXtra that throws a great picture - when it's working , which hasn't been often or lately. At the risk of excommunication from the CRT forum, I'm considering throwing in the towel and going digital, at least temporarily. I haven't kept up with the digital market for the last year or two - which might as well be an eternity judging from all the new models.


I could spend 1000-1500 and still keep/futz with the CRT, or sell it for what I can get, and go up to 2000-2500. There are an overwhelming number of choices and tradeoffs at these price points. I could use some advice/opinions. If you will bear with me, I'll give you some info/assumptions:


1. At present, I have a 20x25 room with two rows of seating at 12 and 16 feet.

2. I have total light control

3. I watch DVD exclusively, tho I plan to add HDTV. I would watch only very occasional 4:3 special events or old movies. This pushes me toward a native 16:9, tho masking a native 4:3 is easier.

4. I don't believe I am particularly susceptible to rainbows, but I can't say for my wife or guests (makes me leery of a 1x speed DLP)

5. I may be spoiled by the great blacks, flesh tones, and color saturation of my NEC - al;though those memories are fading fast :( Blacks push me toward DLP, colors push me toward LCD.

6. I'm happy with about a 100-inch diagonal picture - I can project this on an existing drop down 10-ft wide Boardroom (matte white), or make a fixed screen on the wall behind it. This should put the first row at no closer than 1.3 x width - is this enough to vanquish screen door effect?

7. I'm running off an HTPC now, tho that has been another source of frustration I may vanquish in favor of a simpler solution.


I'm leaning toward picking up a Z1 for about 1100 or 1200, or springing/waiting for the Z2, but am open to other suggestions/advice, especially if I've overlooked any affordable multispeed/multisegment DLPs?


TIA!!
 

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Tim:


I have the Z2. IMO a seating distance of 1.3X is marginal for me and SDE becomes pretty apparent at that distance, Depends on your eyes I think. Mine are pretty good but not great. An "eagle eye" will surely see objectionable screen door at 1.3X on a Z1 I think.


The blacks: I am used to a Runco CRT but it has been several years so memory is not very dependable in such matters. That said, I am quite happy with the blacks on the Z2. If you are looking to find fault with them, as so many CRT owners seem to be, I am sure you will find them wanting. But I am very happy with the blacks on the Z2 and think the criticisms on that score by the CRT crowd are way overdone.


I have more trouble with the banding issue than anything else. On some material it is definitely objectionable. I use the Z2 to project my own digital photographs and VB is readily apparent on any clear blue skies.


Mind, on a DVD movie, I rarely see objectionable banding. Not never, but seldom enough that I don't consider it a serious obstacle to my enjoyment of the material.


Still, I have no doubt at all that a properly set up CRT will give you a better picture by just about any measure you care to mention. I think it may be worth your while to stick it out. For me, another CRT was a logistical near impossibilty.


And truly, the digitals, or the Z2 at least, is remarkably convenient to set up with the lens shift feature.


I like it, but, I'd have preferred a CRT were I better able to cope with the shipping and the weight.
 

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I think you would be happy with a sharp dt-200 paired with an anamorphic lens. it has great blacks AND color saturation. screendoor/pixellation is not an issue at 2x the screen's widths. I have seen many CRTs and i feel that the quality of good dlp projectors are now at the point that going crt is really unecessary.


The z2 is also a great machine because it offers high resolution but the DT-200 will just look closer to CRT.
 

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If you sell your CRT you can go with something like the NEC LT240K. The colour is perfect right out of the box and the black level is fantastic. If you get enough cash from selling the CRT you can afford to get the anamorphic lens as well.


Check out the review at Projector Central and see why they put the LT 240K on their Highly Recommended list.


From one (former) CRT owner to another.

I find that my 240K out-preforms my Marquee 8000 in almost every area.

And I have more time to watch movies instead of trying to fix every little problem that seemed to keep popping up.

(You can read about my experience with NEC's 3 year insta-care warranty.)
HERE


Good luck!
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by TimB
This is a d***** if you do and d***** if you don't post. I have a PGXtra that throws a great picture - when it's working , which hasn't been often or lately. At the risk of excommunication from the CRT forum, I'm considering throwing in the towel and going digital, at least temporarily. I haven't kept up with the digital market for the last year or two - which might as well be an eternity judging from all the new models.


I could spend 1000-1500 and still keep/futz with the CRT, or sell it for what I can get, and go up to 2000-2500. There are an overwhelming number of choices and tradeoffs at these price points. I could use some advice/opinions. If you will bear with me, I'll give you some info/assumptions:



I'm leaning toward picking up a Z1 for about 1100 or 1200, or springing/waiting for the Z2, but am open to other suggestions/advice, especially if I've overlooked any affordable multispeed/multisegment DLPs?


TIA!!
6 months ago I was in the same position as you. My Ampro CRT died before I was ready to move on to the next generation of projectors. I decided to bite the bullet and buy one of the lower cost digitals to tide me over.


I bought the X1 at Best Buy, as we used to have a Davis XGA DLP and loved it (sold it because it was not HD compatible). The X1 had too visible pixel structure and, most surprisingly, too many rainbow artifacts.


I returned it and bought the Z1 (1HD). The colors were not as good as the X1 (green push) and screendoor is very visible to me (I sit 11 feet from a 80" wide highpower). You might be fine since your room is longer than mine.

Absolute black levels on every digital I've used is quite a shock to those used to a CRT. You'll have to allow yourself an adjustment period!


I have to say, it's been a very good reliable projector, just what I wanted in a temporary projector and I've been happy.

But, this past week, my wife and I decided that it's time to upgrade and I will put mine up for sale.


I'm interested in either the Panasonic 500u or the new Benq 6200 ( my wife and I much prefer the look of DLP), but the lack of a DVI input on the Benq is a real buzzkill :(


Good luck!
 

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At the high end of your range will be the street price of the Optoma H56. It has the same resolution as the 240K (XGA), but it is a HT-oriented projector (similar to the HT1000). If you can hold out, the end of the first quarter should have multiple new models available (ScreenPlay 4805, etc.). Prices, as always, will continue to fall, with some point deals for the diligent.


As for the DT-200 vs. CRT, I'm also a CRT refugee (former 6PG+ owner among others), and the DT-200 puts out a good image, but it will not make you forget the CRT days (I have a DT-200 now). However, the ease of focus, lack of convergence, etc. will be big benefits. Also, the DT-200 was significantly quieter than the PG series.


Later,

Bill
 

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You know, us CRT people surf over here sometimes.....


I have a barco G 808s, and an infocus X1. The infocus throws a great picture for a digital. It has a decent black and decent colors.


I don't think I would ever give up the CRT for watching dvds or HDTV. It just has that depth that I have NEVER seen on a digital.


Keep in mind I used to have a BG800 upstairs before I replaced it with the X1. I would demo one in your home before you consider jumping ship from CRT. Some don't mind the difference in PQ and others cannot stand it. I sit in the middle. Each technology has its place and each person has his/her own priorities.


-Garrick


PS. I won't tell the other CRT zealots that you posted that you were considering dumping the CRT.
 

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I agree with glankford, completely. In my opinion, the best of both worlds would be to have an x1 upstairs (living room, bedroom, etc...) and a crt downstairs in the theater room. Also, if you want to have some fun, you can pull the x1 outside for some warm night festivities.

JJ
 

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Quote:
no no no no no no, Ursa had the best advice. Get the Optoma H56. It's the only one that will make you not regret the CRT thing
I agree somewhat with this comment. Although my NEC 240K doesn't make me miss my CRT one bit. If you get a chance to see it in person.. please do so. It really doesn't get the press that it deserves on this forum.


The X1 and it's visible pixel structure (us ex CRT guys are still picky ;)) would not be a viable replacement IMHO. Great for first timers, but not for CRT guys.
 

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The LT240K with an HTPC puts out a gorgeous picture that would would be very easy to enjoy for a CRT person. I don't believe any SVGA DLP or LCD projector would be a good idea.
 

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The LT240K with an HTPC puts out a gorgeous picture that would would be very easy to enjoy for a CRT person.
I agree! I don't own a HTPC but I am using the Momitsu DVD player @ 720p and 1080i.


= Stunning! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for all the replies guys! It's good to hear from you current or ex CRTers, helping to confirm my decision - and thanks for not ratting me out ;)


The more I read, the less thrilled I am with going to an LCD for fear of VB/FPN/SDE/misconvergence issues. I brought an LP530 (XGA DLP) home from work and played with it a bit yesterday. Neither I nor my wife saw any rainbows (tho I don't know if we used the best demo material - any specific DVD/chapter recommendations would be appreciated). I was happy enough with the color saturation and black levels (maybe I had sufficiently lowered my expectations, or maybe they're better than I feared).


Therefore, I was seriously considering the BenQ 6200, or bumping up to the LT240K. I'm more the 'practical pig' type, but my wife has advised against the false economy of buying 'too cheaply' (not impugning anything here, but you know what I mean). I could probably get up in the $4k range which I guess would get any of the H56, HT1000, or IF5700 ... maybe not much further for even the BenQ PE8700 or IF7200? (not sure what they are streeting for). I'm just not sure that doubling or tripling the price with the technology evolving and prices plummetting is such a great idea. Or that the differential to get into the HD2 chip is worth it, especially if one thought about adding a Panamorph to a 4:3 SVGA or XGA projector.


Since most of my viewing will be in widescreen (say 70% DVD, 15% HDTV, and 15% 4:3), am I better off with:

1. a native 16:9 PJ now (upper end of range in DLP, I guess)

2. XGA with or without panamorph

3. SVGA (X1?) with panamorph and plan to upgrade in a year or so?


I'm leaning toward #2, probably without the panamorph. I guess my range is bracketed by the BenQ 6200 at the low end (at a price at which I could afford to upgrade in a year), and the HT1000/IF5700 at the upper end (which I would have to keep for a few years). Each of these, and the 240K and H56 in between, are getting great reviews and have strong followings.


I think I'm leaning toward the LT240K for price/performance ratio in concert with reliability/warranty considerations. Any comments or opinions on all this?
 

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A couple good scenes to test for rainbows are in Gladiator (sorry, I don't have chapter numbers): after the battle, when Maximus (Russell Crowe) goes into Marcus Aurelius's (Richard Harris) tent, and later, when they attempt to assassinate Maximus and his gladiator comrades help him escape.


I'd advise against the BenQ 6200 because it doesn't have a DVI input.


I have a BenQ PE8700 and I think it's excellent. With the arrival of the 8710 maybe you'll find some great prices.
 

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I used to use CRT machines. I had fun tinkering with them. I went with digital (X1) because of space issues but I am very content. One good thing is a warranty...no more e-mailing folks all over the country to try to find the 10 year old part that you think is defective, if it even exists. And I now tend to leave the PJ alone during a movie which makes my family happy.
 

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Over the years I've owned models from Barco, Ampro, Harman Video...when I went digital I never looked back. I don't miss the constant tweaking that seemed to be a requirement with a CRT projector.
 

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You can get a refursbished CRT from Curt Palme for what you will pay for a new DLP or LCD projector.
 

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I've often thought that that ex-CRT owners make the worst customers in this forum / price range -- an ongoing evaluation of the picture (looking for the good, looking for the bad) seems to be a part of the CRT experience. If it doesn't look right, it gets adjusted...


W/ digital, once you've got it set like you like it, that's the picture you're going to have. It's easier for me to set and forget and I watch the movie, not the picture. Every once in a while I'll still be stunned w/ the picture ... but then I go back to the movie.


and w/ digital (once tuned), what you've got, you've got. if it's right it'll look right w/ most programming. if not there's less you can do.


The other reason why CRT owners don't fare as well (at least on a transition to DLP) is that they already have the screen -- maybe a very bright screen; maybe too bright and eyestrain & rainboze can be a result.


[ note the moderate tone and language in the last para. I'm not starting a rainboze/dlp/lcd/crt/good/bad/screwme/screwyou war here. ]


Having never seen it, I'd love to have the rich depth of CRT. I also don't think I could live w/ the box and the tuning ... my choice, your choice. If you migrate from CRT to digital, you might consider the need to change your screen; and consider reducing your level of participation w/ the equipment, once it's tuned to your liking.


ciao,


Mark
 
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