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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
well after weeks of shootouts and bargaining , i've finally decided to pull the trigger on one of these.

Which one you ask?


Well it was a tough battle but my final decison is to get the infocus 5700 over the ht1000


the reason for this is my eyes simply cant deny how bright,vivid and punchy to 5700 is when compared to the ht1000.


i believe the ht1000 is suited to the dark dedicated theater , 1 which has no light coming through at any time of the day and one with dark walls/ceiling that dont reflect the screen light.


In a room with has light coloured walls and white ceilings (like mine) and a room which can only be light controlled at night (like mine) , it make sense to go for the brighter 5700.


Also as projector central mentioned black levels are compromised in such light coloured environments and then it is in fact brighter PJ's that will produce a more sizzling image



Quote from PJ Central about the 5700


"Regarding contrast, the HT1000 is noticeably higher in contrast than the 5700. This may be important to you IF you are operating in a dark environment with no ambient light. However, once you introduce ambient light into the equation, black levels on the screen are compromised (that is, ambient light makes blacks less black) and thus the contrast differences are neutralized. Therefore if you have a dark theater, the contrast performance advantage of the HT1000 may be an important factor that will be meaningful to you. If you do not, we suggest you ignore this particular specification."


Quote from PJ Central about contrast


"By the way, for those who think 1400:1 is a bit weak in contrast compared to other units rated up to 2000:1 or so, think again. At these contrast performance ranges, you can only see noticeable differences between them in a totally black viewing room. If you have a room with light colored walls, ceiling, drapes, carpet, furniture, etc., then there are plenty of reflective surfaces that will bounce light from the screen back onto the screen. That recycled light reduces actual contrast on the screen and tends to equalize the performance of projectors with high theoretical contrast ratings. It can virtually eliminate the contrast difference between a 1400:1 machine and a 2000:1 machine in live operation.

So unless your home theater has a very dark interior, we'd suggest not lending too much weight to the contrast specs on the projectors you are considering. This is especially true of machines that are rated 1400:1 and up, where the specs on paper will bear no resemblance to the actual performance you will get in your living room."




sure i was tempted to go the nec way due to the blacker blacks, but without a point of reference i found the blacks to be truely satisfing on the 5700.( we are well past the days of blacks not looking black but rather like blue/greys)

and i feel its simply due to the lack of brightness of the ht1000 that makes the blacks look blacker.


other points in favour of the sp5700 were as follows

- faster colour wheel

- Longer lamp life

- Sharper picture (the nec has a very soft picture in comparison)

- True 16:9



well , I'm putting a deposit later today, but I would like to hear from anyone who has also compared these 2 and what your thoughts are.
 

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"If you have a room with light colored walls, ceiling, drapes, carpet, furniture, etc., then there are plenty of reflective surfaces that will bounce light from the screen back onto the screen."


This is unquestionably true with mixed brightness scenes. But in really dim scenes, there isn't much light to scatter and high black level will be painfully apparent.
 

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This is unquestionably true with mixed brightness scenes. But in really dim scenes, there isn't much light to scatter and high black level will be painfully apparent.

Noah

...............................................


Now that's putting the hammer exactly on the head of the nail Noah. :)
 

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Hey Crumpet did you ever get to see the BenQ again. I know you had a bad experience with it the first thing around. I'm in the same boat although the Infocus isn't exactly available for me but it's always interesting to read what led one to decide on a projector over another.


In reading your other points section. the faster color wheel is also important to me but sharper picture? A sharp picture may be more visually stunning but as the video calibration discs have taught me it may not be ideal for film-like reproduction. I'm wondering whether the HT1000 being softer is really such a bad thing. Care to comment on this some more?


From what I hear though you can't go wrong with either one.
 

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If the majority of your viewing is going to be with lights on somewhere in/near the screen, it makes sense to choose a brighter pj to at least show the brighter parts of the picture more unfazed than you'd get with the HT1000. (I also presume your screen is going to be more reflective than the surrounding furnishings, floors, walls, and will win out in light production.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
yeah not a problem , i guess i worded it the wrong way , the nec looks too soft in comparison , I think the 5700 is spot on , im like you and i dont like a digital like image (too sharp) but what i meant was the sp5700 has the impression of greater detail (might be due to the extra punch of the colours)


I will be seeing the 2 head to head again today before handing over the cash for the sp5700 , but a word of warning seeing them head to head at the same time will ruin anything good about the ht1000 , it's much more better to see tham at seperate occasions cause the siginificant dimness of the ht1000 will make the sp5700 look better in all aspects simply cause your eyes are attracted to the brighter source immediately

not meaning any disrespect to the ht1000 (remeber i love both of them thats why it was so hard to choose)


I've come from a barco data800 crt btw , so i know that film like quality is very important
 

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So unless your home theater has a very dark interior, we'd suggest not lending too much weight to the contrast specs on the projectors you are considering. This is especially true of machines that are rated 1400:1 and up, where the specs on paper will bear no resemblance to the actual performance you will get in your living room.[\\quote]


If this is true, then some of the new under $5K PJs may be worth looking at, especially considering the cost differential. I believe the HS20, Z2, and the AE500 are all speced at 1300:1 CRs, which is pretty close to the Projector Central magic threshold. Of course, Noah makes a good point on the overall brightness of the scene.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Uther ,

I agree entirely , not to mention the high res that some of these new LCD PJ's have
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by crumpet
I will be seeing the 2 head to head again today before handing over the cash for the sp5700 , but a word of warning seeing them head to head at the same time will ruin anything good about the ht1000 , it's much more better to see tham at seperate occasions cause the siginificant dimness of the ht1000 will make the sp5700 look better in all aspects simply cause your eyes are attracted to the brighter source immediately

not meaning any disrespect to the ht1000 (remeber i love both of them thats why it was so hard to choose)
Well, do yourself a favor when you go in to check out the HT1000 one last time... take off your sunglasses.


;-)


Good luck with either choice.


RJ

...
 

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crumpet,


You're right about direct comparisons, so try and view the HT1000 first and see if you're happy with the picture.


While the 5700 will initially wow with its brightness, it's possible that over time you will become sensitized and dissatisfied with the black level.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Noah Your right so thats what i just did


this morning I went and saw the 5700 and then the ht1000 separately and i have pulled a 180 degree turn


Without the direct comparison , the ht1000 was clearly superior,

All i could think was "WOW , this is film !"


Brightness was plenty enough , blacks unmatched but the thing that made me settle the score in my mind was how much smoother the image is on the NEC compared to the 5700.


the 5700 had a noisy rough picture in comparison and although the blacks were black enough , it seemed the sheer brightness blinded you to see any detail in the blacks .


eg the stars in the fifth element could not be seen as well on the 5700 as they were on the ht1000.


The only plus point in my eyes of the 5700 was detail at the expense of noise.

The hostess in scene 17 of the fifth element (superbit) clearly shows more freckles on her face then i could see on the nec , but overall , i thought of the nec as a much more pleasurable and appealing image then compared to the 5700.


I cant believe that smoothness , when i was watching the 5700 i was thinking " I dont think im enjoying this and can i live with the PQ" , with the NEC there was no doubt , it made me think " how can it get any better than this ?"


So anyway , forgive me for doubting the nec once again , and if I ever mention in this forum that im considering the 5700 , shoot me and delete the thread.


I don't think you will be seeing that though as I have pulled the trigger and ordered the ht1000


DONE !
 

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Crumpet...Congratulations! I am in the same boat, deciding between the ht1000 with 3 others...the 2 Infocus SPs, and the BenQ. What a luxury you had with the opportunity do a side-by-side comparison! I would like to pull the trigger today...if I still have my senses after beating my head against the wall! I think I am at the 80% certainty level now with the HT1000. I am coming off the old LT150, so I already like NEC.
 

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Boy Crumpet, I didn't think I could feel any better about my HT1000, but you made me even more certain I got the best PQ for the money. I too had no opportunity to compare it ( other than to my old LCD pj ). Len, pull the trigger, then watch Gladiator on it - watched part of it again last night - great movie, great picture quality!
 

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A quick comment on these observations. If I had the chance to directly compare projectors I think that is what I would go by. It is too easy to let your mind play around and make you "think things" if you are not doing a direct comparison . It is very easy for the mind to make you think what you want to, or think you should be, seeing. A direct comparison gives your mind less time to play these game. I know that I am easily affected by this (especially the more I read reviews and hear the opinions of others). None of us like to admit it, but few of us are not stricken by it. I am not saying this is what you may be experiencing, just that it sounds eerily familiar to what I have experienced myself in the past. I am also not discounting the discussions made here, but I do think that you should be able to see the same high and low points side by side even better than separately. If the bright 5700 picture wows you next to the NEC then that is probably what you prefer. Side by side the inferior contrast and shadow detail of the 5700 should be even more readily apparent The bottom line though, I think, is there doesn't have to be a "right" or "wrong" picture, just one you are happy with. For some that will be brighter and more vivid. For others it will be something else. Trust your eyes and your initial impressions, they are often your best. I have trouble believing that you can go from being wowed one day to not being sure if you can live with the PQ strictly by not comparing these side by side, UNLESS the sreens and other environmental factors had a significant effect. Please don't construe this as criticism, simply an observation that hits close to home for me also. Both of these projectors are excellent and you will be happy with either. I thought ProjectorCentral did an excellent job of comparing the two and their pro's and con's. I am considering both also but am leaning towards the 5700 but mostly because of the faster color-wheel and native 16:9 which are very important. Unfortunately, I haven't even had a chance to see either so all I can go by so far is what I read.
 

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I'd like to point out that the 5700 not only has a faster color wheel, it also has a 50 % faster DMD device, the Matterhorn. The HT-1000 uses the 1024 x 768 Texas Instruments chip, which was originally designed as a data grade display device. The HT-1000 is the very best implentation I have seen to date of that chip, but the fact is that the Matterhorn, just like the Mustang, was designed from the ground up for home theater while the XGA chip was not.


What this all means is that the Matterhorn (and Mustang) is capable of refreshing the information displayed on screen 50 % faster than any XGA DLP device currently out there. This results in more fluid video performance with less in the way of motion artifacts. At our shootout on Sunday, dithering artifacts were less noticeable on the 5700 than the HT-1000. In this particular shootout, though, we had to get right up to the screen in order to see the effects on the NEC! It just goes to show what an excellent projector the NEC is.


That said, I should point out that motion artifacts were quite a bit more noticeable on the NEC when I set up the two projectors here at home, especially when watching live broadcasts or documentary type footage. In sports and most live TV, whip pans and fast camera moves are much more prevalent, and the NEC displayed quite a bit more image lag than the 5700. In our shootout, however, we primarily used movies and static HD footage, and the image lag was just about unnoticeable on all of the projectors.


Another point, in regards to sharpness. Yes, a brighter image will definitely give the impression of greater sharpness, real or imagined. Yet, on my Friday shootout, we used a passage from ATTACK OF THE CLONES (chapter 3) were the 5700 clearly revealed more detail in a closeup of Yoda. The white hairs on Yoda's head were more clearly delineated on the Screenplay unit.


To me, all of this really is a matter of splitting hairs (excuse the pun!). I could just as easily go on about how the HT-1000 did a much better job of giving us deep blacks than the 5700, and how the city chase scene in CLONES looked more three dimensional than the 5700. What I am struck by in this thread is what seems to be a common judgement that deep blacks are "better" than brightness. It's not "better," just different! I would be happy to have EITHER projector in my home - they are both EXCELLENT units. In both shootouts, the room was just about split right down the middle in regards to the HT-1000 and the 5700. Those that prefer deeper blacks and the smoother image of the HT-1000 should absolutely go with that projector! Those that were impressed with the brightness and sharpness of the 5700 should choose the Screenplay!


I stick to my motto, that you should match the projector to the environment and go with what looks best to you.


JOHN
 

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Another point - it's easier to make a bright projector darker (ND Filter, screen material) than it is to make a dark projector brighter (high gain screen). To me, the 5700 has a bit more versatility in that you could add a ND filter at night for deeper blacks, but pull it off during the day or during football parties to regain all of its brightness.


Another thing that was effectively demonstrated at the shootout - when we put the Da-lite HiContrast Da-Mat material up with the 5700, voila! Deep blacks. Of course, this cut down on the overall brightness as well. I guess my point here is that there is a solution for those who want the other design aspects of the Matterhorn (faster DMD, native 16:9), yet still want deep blacks.


JOHN
 

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Well said Angilasaurus. I too would love to have either machine in my HT right now. The only comment I would add to my earlier post, and it has been said before, is that after anyone buys their projector it is likely a good idea to NOT visit the projector discussions here for quite a while :) :) :)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by angilasaurus
I guess my point here is that there is a solution for those who want the other design aspects of the Matterhorn (faster DMD, native 16:9), yet still want deep blacks.
For anybody who really values deeper blacks, but wants the Matterhorn, it would seem that waiting for some of the other Matterhorn projectors might make sense. It seems that Sharp has gone for CR over brightness with their implementation compared to InFocus.


--Darin
 

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True, although speaking as a Sharp dealer, I was very disappointed in the Sharp Matterhorn piece shown at CEDIA (very grainy and dim, tough anything would look dim after the 5700). Amazingly, they were using the very same video clip as Infocus (chapter 23 from THE REPLACEMENTS) to show off their Matterhorn, and all it did was emphasize how much better the colors were on the Infocus (greens were lime on the Sharp, reds orange). Still, I am more likely to blame how it was set up than the projector itself. We'll have to see when it actually hits the market.


I didn't see any of the other Matterhorns at CEDIA. As always, it pays to check out as many projectors as you can before dropping the cash!


JOHN
 
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