[benareeno]

Correct me if I'm wrong here as I list what I believe to be the differences in these 2 sets....


1) PZ800 has better color decoding due to the error in the G10 sets

2) G10 has far more contrast due to its brighter panel

3) Black levels are very close to the same

4) Processing is better on the G10 in that it keeps all the resolution of film

5) primary and secondary colors in THX mode are about the same....with perhaps the PZ800 having a more accurate red

6) PZ800 would use more power


any additions or subtractions, let me know.


Ben

 

[benareeno]

I guess I nailed it...

 

[RandyWalters]



Quote:
Originally Posted by benareeno /forum/post/16843795


I guess I nailed it...

Um, no.


You should check out some of the other 800U vs G10 threads

 

[beemermark]



Quote:
Originally Posted by benareeno /forum/post/16841666


Correct me if I'm wrong here as I list what I believe to be the differences in these 2 sets....


1) PZ800 has better color decoding due to the error in the G10 sets

2) G10 has far more contrast due to its brighter panel

3) Black levels are very close to the same

4) Processing is better on the G10 in that it keeps all the resolution of film

5) primary and secondary colors in THX mode are about the same....with perhaps the PZ800 having a more accurate red

6) PZ800 would use more power


any additions or subtractions, let me know.


Ben

The G10 if I recall from Chad's review was brightest in custom mode. Wasn't it almost as dim in THX as the 800 was (if not dimmer) ? So is it a fair contrast ratio comparison when the 800 he referred to was in it's dimmest mode ? I've heard the 800's custom mode wasn't very good as far as gamma. Still, one could put either one in vivid and I assume get impressive numbers from the extra brightness.


I've pondered over cal reports for the last week or so, and black levels are all over the place. Some show the 800/850 doing as well as the G10/V10. Of course it could be differences in meters and techniques. Same with brightness levels.


The G10 is brightest in custom and comparable to the 800 in THX, from the pdf of the V10 calibration posted by D-Nice. It's as dim as an 850 in Studio Ref mode. Or am I reading something wrong ? And what's up with the black level, is it really only 0.0150 compared to an X1 at 0.0157 ?


When I looked at a V10 at a Magnolia store, the greens (grass) was alot more "neon" than on the 850 near it, with both sets on vivid. I can't recall if the G10 was the same. It's always hard to see them side by side. The V10 did have more of that POP, and maybe the color was a bit richer.


And I'm not convinced of the lower energy usage either, at least not to the extent that is hinted at. Although from the Cnet reviews, the 800 was more power hungry than the 850.


So what IS IT that makes the new panels the only ones to consider, when from the looks of it on paper (cal reports and such) the older sets seem to be very strong contenders.

 

[speedking]



Quote:
Originally Posted by beemermark /forum/post/16847413


The G10 if I recall from Chad's review was brightest in custom mode. Wasn't it almost as dim in THX as the 800 was (if not dimmer) ? So is it a fair contrast ratio comparison when the 800 he referred to was in it's dimmest mode ? I've heard the 800's custom mode wasn't very good as far as gamma. Still, one could put either one in vivid and I assume get impressive numbers from the extra brightness.


I've pondered over cal reports for the last week or so, and black levels are all over the place. Some show the 800/850 doing as well as the G10/V10. Of course it could be differences in meters and techniques. Same with brightness levels.


The G10 is brightest in custom and comparable to the 800 in THX, from the pdf of the V10 calibration posted by D-Nice. It's as dim as an 850 in Studio Ref mode. Or am I reading something wrong ? And what's up with the black level, is it really only 0.0150 compared to an X1 at 0.0157 ?


When I looked at a V10 at a Magnolia store, the greens (grass) was alot more "neon" than on the 850 near it, with both sets on vivid. I can't recall if the G10 was the same. It's always hard to see them side by side. The V10 did have more of that POP, and maybe the color was a bit richer.


And I'm not convinced of the lower energy usage either, at least not to the extent that is hinted at. Although from the Cnet reviews, the 800 was more power hungry than the 850.


So what IS IT that makes the new panels the only ones to consider, when from the looks of it on paper (cal reports and such) the older sets seem to be very strong contenders.

Let me take a wild guess here...you can get a great deal on a 58"800U and all you need is a little rationalization to buy the older technology. Sorry, you won't find any on these threads. All the new NEO 1080p panels will outperform the 800 and 850...that's the reality. You can try to crunch the numbers all you want. It's a better panel...period.

 

[beemermark]



Quote:
Originally Posted by speedking /forum/post/16847430


Let me take a wild guess here...you can get a great deal on a 58"800U and all you need is a little rationalization to buy the older technology. Sorry, you won't find any on these threads. All the new NEO 1080p panels will outperform the 800 and 850...that's the reality. You can try to crunch the numbers all you want. It's a better panel...period.

Well, actually a 46"PZ850

So why is it when I look at a U1 (non NEO) next to an S1 (NEO) I see less "noise" and or "grain" in the image. I admit the sets could be at different picture settings, but it seems consistent in any store I've been in. I see the same result comparing the G10 and S1.


How can "neon" greens be better

Or the yellowish cast I see in THX on the G10 ? Yeah, it looked better on custom, but custom is not supposed to be why one pays the extra for a G10.


I guess the problem for me, is that when I see the new models next to an older one, not much (other than slightly better blacks) jumps out at me. I watched a Nascar race on a S1 and PZ80 and I thought the PZ80 still held its own. In fact I thought the asphalt of the track looked more true to life on the 80.


Maybe it comes down to the lower gamma on the older models looking brighter to my eyes. That would probably contribute to the newer ones looking a bit richer as far as color.

 

[speedking]



Quote:
Originally Posted by beemermark /forum/post/16847649


Well, actually a 46"PZ850

So why is it when I look at a U1 (non NEO) next to an S1 (NEO) I see less "noise" and or "grain" in the image. I admit the sets could be at different picture settings, but it seems consistent in any store I've been in. I see the same result comparing the G10 and S1.


How can "neon" greens be better

Or the yellowish cast I see in THX on the G10 ? Yeah, it looked better on custom, but custom is not supposed to be why one pays the extra for a G10.


I guess the problem for me, is that when I see the new models next to an older one, not much (other than slightly better blacks) jumps out at me. I watched a Nascar race on a S1 and PZ80 and I thought the PZ80 still held its own. In fact I thought the asphalt of the track looked more true to life on the 80.


Maybe it comes down to the lower gamma on the older models looking brighter to my eyes. That would probably contribute to the newer ones looking a bit richer as far as color.

So you are trying to evaluate these displays in retail stores? That's like looking for a wife in a brothel. You can talk yourself into buying one of these 08 displays, if you want, but if you want an informed decision, the Neo Plasmas of 09 are superior...


Ask Chris of Cleveland Plasma if the 09 Panasonic models are superior to the 08 models. He sells both, so he is objective...he's going to tell you the same thing.

 

[MEATBALLS]



Quote:
the Neo Plasmas of 09 are superior...

I only agree if your comparing equivalent models. High end (or close to high end) to high end, mid to mid etc. The s1 for example, is in no way other than power consumption and usually unneeded extra brightness, better than the z800. The 800/850 are quite capable of going brighter than what most people would ever want. Unless you love the torch mode, tv store look I guess. Black levels matter much, much more than excessive brightness, and the black levels on these tvs are real close.


I would much rather have an 800 or 850 over an s1. Older technology or not. As long as the tv isnt in torch mode, even an 800 wont be too bad on power consumption anyway. Better out of the box colour accuracy on the 800 over s1, one sheet of glass screen, 4 hdmi inputs, and almost identical black levels. The s1 may go brighter, which is useless for a properly calibrated tv in a dim room, and will save on power and could be little better after paying for a pro calibration but that's it. Just because a tv can go brighter does not make it better at all. If the tv is even close to being calibrated properly and is being viewed in even a mediocore viewing enironment, most of that extra brightness won't even be used.


As far as the 800/850 "losing resolution from film", I believe that is a deinterlacing problem and exists from a 1080i source. Inputing 1080p from a blueray player, will result in no resolution loss.


The g10/15 is a step up from the z800 though, even though you lose the one sheet of glass and extra HDMI input, and the THX mode is less accurate and arguably too dim compared with the 08's, but anyone who says (and many people probably do) that the s1 produces a better picture than the z800 or 850 just because it's newer technology is not really thinking it through and/or has not actually comprared the 2 tvs fairly themselves.

 

[H_Prestige]



Quote:
Originally Posted by benareeno /forum/post/16841666


Correct me if I'm wrong here as I list what I believe to be the differences in these 2 sets....


1) PZ800 has better color decoding due to the error in the G10 sets
2) G10 has far more contrast due to its brighter panel

3) Black levels are very close to the same

4) Processing is better on the G10 in that it keeps all the resolution of film

5) primary and secondary colors in THX mode are about the same....with perhaps the PZ800 having a more accurate red

6) PZ800 would use more power


any additions or subtractions, let me know.


Ben

You pretty much nailed it except for this part. In THX mode the G10 is actually dimmer than THX in the pz800, so contrast might be about the same or less. Moreover they both use the same AR filter so they will look essentially the same in a bright room. If you're saving money on the 08 model, go with that. Also, both have the same screwed up 48hz mode. You have to get the V10 for 96hz.

 

[761-honda]

If the thx mode in the G10 is dimmer than my 58 800u than I certainly dont want it. Why would Panasonic make it dimmer is beyond me? Dont they get feedback from consumers when the 800u was out that its dim already in thx mode?


I'm happy with my 800u even though I only use thx mode. Its quite the looker too. The new Pannys have taken a big step back design wise. I'm not bashing the new models just my 2 cents.