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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Based on mention of the Lumagen Vision Pro HDP on this board, I purchased one. I also sold my Faroudja DVP-1000.


First, I cannot get the Lumagen to output (or the Qualia to accept) the 1080p resolution. When I use the remote code from the setup manual (Menu 0 2 7), the Qualia reports that I should check input B, but no picture emerges, simply a bright blue screen.


I have the singular input set to HD YPrPb. I get a picture when I set the Lumagen to 720p, 540p, or 1080i.


I should comment that, from what I've seen thus far, I am troubled by the Lumagen's performance, no 1080p aside. It invites a darkness into the picture that takes getting used to, but my inital impression is that I don't like its picture nearly as much as I do with the Qualia and no external processor, or the Qualia and the Faroudja DVP-1000.


If I am doing something wrong in obtaining a 1080p output from the Lumagen (or at least one that the Qualia recognizes), please advise me. However, if it does work and I don't see an improvement, I'm likely to return the unit and simply use the Qualia without a scaler.


But that leads to a question. I liked the simplicity of operation that the DVP-1000 offered, and I am thinking of simply getting one of the early generation NRS units to tide me by until more developments come along. Would 540p (from a 1st generation NRS) be just as good as 720p? I would then engage the pass through for the 1080i signal, while processing the other signals.


Thanks,


Nick :cool:
 

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The Qualia doesn't accept 1080P.


It accepts 1080 24pSf which is a totally different animal. The timings are the same as 1080 48P, but the sync is output in a different manner.


Vern
 

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It will not do 1080P at this time. I say "at this time," because Sony knows there is a demand for it, and it is now up the engineers in Japan to decide how to do it, if it is possible. There is a hardware issue right now with all DVI boards accepting 1080P as the chips are not fast enough.


Lumagen is working hard on the 1080 24sF mode, and I have gotten them a Qualia to test with now, so hopefully they will have some bugs worked out on it shortly. The two big issues affecting 1080 24sF with the Lumagen now is the different voice timing and sync issues on SDI versus the other inputs as well as horizontal line bounce. Patrick is working hard on this, and it WILL be solved.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Vern Dias
The Qualia doesn't accept 1080P.


It accepts 1080 24pSf which is a totally different animal. The timings are the same as 1080 48P, but the sync is output in a different manner.


Vern
Back the truck up. I thought that the 1080p resolution on the Lumagen was the 1080 24pSf. If this means I bought it for a future resolution, then it is going back on Monday.


Some of the first posts I read on the subject suggested that the Lumagen was already outputting this resolution, and that's frankly why I bought it. Perhaps I didn't read those posts closely enough, but I'm going to go back and look at them now.


If what you're saying is correct, has any Qualia owner ever seen it outputting 1080 24spSf? Or is this just a hope?


Nick :cool:
 

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There is a 1080P 60 rez on the Lumagen for output to a display that will handle that rez, and 1080 24PsF for the Qualia. When you enter your output rez on the Lumagen, it asks if you want progressive which is 60hz, or 24sF or interlaced.


Every Qualia owner can see 1080 24sF NOW on the Qualia as the Lumagen has been outputting it since July 15th. It still is too buggy for me personally to leave on, so I use 1080I in the interim until Patrick at Lumagen can get the lip synch and line bouncing under control. He will be working on those this week as they took posession of the Qualia I arranged for them mid-last week. He has to finish up the HDCP issues first.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by DocDVD
There is a hardware issue right now with all DVI boards accepting 1080P as the chips are not fast enough.
The JVC HD2K accepts [email protected] over DVI, so this doesn't seem to apply to their implementation.


--Darin
 

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Doc DVD

What is the difference between 1080 p and and 1080 24psf?

I just ordered a Qualia - Already feel that a hardware upgrade will be required (if any) to get to 1080p.

I was hoping that I can use the projector at least for a few years before it gets out dated.

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by DocDVD
There is a 1080P 60 rez on the Lumagen for output to a display that will handle that rez, and 1080 24PsF for the Qualia. When you enter your output rez on the Lumagen, it asks if you want progressive which is 60hz, or 24sF or interlaced.


Every Qualia owner can see 1080 24sF NOW on the Qualia as the Lumagen has been outputting it since July 15th. It still is too buggy for me personally to leave on, so I use 1080I in the interim until Patrick at Lumagen can get the lip synch and line bouncing under control. He will be working on those this week as they took posession of the Qualia I arranged for them mid-last week. He has to finish up the HDCP issues first.
Thanks, I found it. Yet no matter what resolution it outputs, it imparts way too much darkness for my tastes.


For the last three years, I've used a NEC XG1352LC, combined, first, with a Faroudja NRS at 720p (and a completely unprocessed 1080i signal from my HD receiver to the projector), and more recently with the Faroudja DVP-1000.


I have three daisy chained Kenwood Sovereign changers, being controlled by an Escient DVM-100 (It was formerly a completely Kenwood Sovereign setup, with the Entre unit controlling them). As Escient control unit switches from disc to disc (there are about 1000 of them now), the blue Kenwood Sovereign display appears on the screen.


I have seen this blue background not only on my NEC with both Faroudjas (and, for a week, a Key Digital HD Leeza) but also on my Sony HD TV. Its appearance will differ depending on the IRE setting of the DVD player, ranging from a powder blue (7.5 IRE) to a pungent sky blue (0 IRE). Through nearly three years with the Kenwood Sovereign system, I have gotten to know this blue background on three different displays, and with different video processors, or without video processors (such as with the television). My system was generally calibrated by Chuck Williams, who is well known to many on this forum.


I got the same color results with the Faroudja connected to the Qualia; and not much different at all with the Qualia simply receiving the component video signal without a processor in the chain. All within the general range of what I've come to expect from that blue background, and all generally pungent and striking--almost as striking as the blue background display of the Qualia.


And now, the effect of the Lumagen . . . very dark, too dark, unacceptably dark. Now, I've set the IRE on the Lumagen to 0 as well, but this is like the picture I've seen from projectors when you set the brightness to something like 15 or 20. It is like the image was dropped in a greasy black puddle, and it is drenched with it. This is true irrespective of the resolution. I doubt that any further adjustments will make much of a difference, but I'll play around with it to verify.


It seems likely that I will, at the very least, be invoking Lumagen's 30 day return policy. I doubt that I will have it for seven days.


Thanks,


Nick :cool:
 

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Nick:


If your picture is too dark, you don't have it setup right. You need to get an ISF professional to setup the Lumagen for you. Mine is perfect. This is not the nature of any scaler, but the point at where you set it. No scalers set brightness or even contrast perfectly out of the box.


When I calibrate a projector with a scaler, I do contrast, brightness, grayscale, back to contrast and brightness all on the projector without touching the scaler. Then I set brightness and contrast for each scaler input using the projector's base contrast and brightness as a base. A good scaler should not alter the projector's color or grayscale settings.


As far as the differences in 1080 24sF and 1080P, this comes from two camps of thought for the most part: 1) Filmmakers prefer 1080 24P 2) Gamers and Game Makers prefer 1080 60hz, the Holy Grail of PC rez. To the eye, there is very little difference if any between the two on film material. The ultimate solution without any modifications to the Qualia's firmware or hardware would be the Lumagen inputting 1080/60 PC and converting the output to 1080 24 which is something on Lumagen's plate.


Sony has made no comment on whether the Qualia would require a board change to take 1080/60.


Ash, your projector is certainly not dated unless you are going to play a ton of PC games, and even then, this piece looks fantastic with Doom III or Call of Duty running at 1280x720P. Smokes an Xbox for sure.


Yes, there are pieces that will accept 1080 /60, but most are using a proprietary board. Gefen's board does NOT take 1080P 60, nor does the standard off-the-shelf DVI/HDMI chipsets most manufacturer's are using. JVC's piece does via the Faroudja 1080P scaler, but again, there has been mixed reaction to that piece nor have I seen it it take 1080P 60 bypassing the scaler (it may, I just have not seen it).


The one thing I can say about Lumagen versus ANY other scaler company I have worked with: when I call them on a Monday morning and say "hey, Pat, I tried this firmware and it isn't doing what we talked about," I usuallly have 2 or 3 new firmwares to try by the day's end. My big concern is getting this piece working flawlessly with the Qualia since I have a huge number of customers with the Qualia and the ProHDP, and once the bugs are worked out, then Lumagen will continue to improve the scaling and sharpness.
 

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few weeks back i have a professional d5 master

here" the day after tomorrow" the first 15 min. of the movie.

we try ed to feed the qualia with 1080psf via dvi and via hdmi but the pr. cant

display it.

the component inputs works fine without any problem at 1080psf.


so my question was can the quaila handle 1080psf also on the

hdmi and dvi or ONLY at the component input?

if yes may the converter(hdsdi to dvi) don't have the right sync.
 

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I have used both the HDMI and DVI inputs for 1080 24pSf from an HTPC with no issues. The DVI input has to be set to VideoGRB, the HDMI input is always in VideoGRB mode.


1080 24pSf shares one attribute with the HDTV 1080I spec. The sync must be on G/Y or composite. It cannot use sync on the HV sync lines. As a matter of fact, If you feed a Qualia with a HDTV 1080I signal via DVI from an ATI Radeon card, it will interpret the signal as 540P rather than 1080I. Thats why the ATI requires the dongle to convert to component to support HDTV 1080I.


Vern
 

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I have had it running here both ways with zero problem from my Sencore Generator as well as the Lumagen scaler. It will do it on Component, HDMI or DVI. I have 99% of my customers setup this way now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by DocDVD
Nick:


If your picture is too dark, you don't have it setup right. You need to get an ISF professional to setup the Lumagen for you. Mine is perfect. This is not the nature of any scaler, but the point at where you set it. No scalers set brightness or even contrast perfectly out of the box.


When I calibrate a projector with a scaler, I do contrast, brightness, grayscale, back to contrast and brightness all on the projector without touching the scaler. Then I set brightness and contrast for each scaler input using the projector's base contrast and brightness as a base. A good scaler should not alter the projector's color or grayscale settings.
Perhaps. But, in addition to the two Faroudja models I'd mentioned (the NRS 720p and the DVP-1000), I also had the HD Leeza, Digital Leeza, and one earlier one (from AVSCIENCE) whose name now escapes me.


None of the default settings out of the box for these scalers looked anything remotely what I'm describing for the Lumagen. If everything is relative, then, despite whatever abatement I can obtain, the Lumagen is just darker, period.


Nonetheless, once the projector is hung, Chuck Williams will be out to calibrate it, and I trust his judgment on the subject. I will certainly report back what my results are, though they are weeks away.


There could be return policy issues that might prompt its earlier return to Lumagen, but hopefully I'll be able to verify what you're saying.


Thanks,


Nick :cool:
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by DocDVD
JVC's piece does via the Faroudja 1080P scaler, but again, there has been mixed reaction to that piece nor have I seen it it take 1080P 60 bypassing the scaler (it may, I just have not seen it).
Just to let you know, the HD2K does well with a PC at 1080p60. The HD Leeza I have gives me some artifacts on bright objects, so it almost works, but not quite.


--Darin
 

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Nick:


All I can tell you is that I have installed around a dozen of these with Qualias, and if anything, at the default 128, 128 contrast brightness defaults it is washed out, not too dark. Could it be you are talking component in and you have not done the required Menu 0966 autocal of inputs 3 & 4? Also, I find I get better results turning black enhance off for each input under the input setting.


Darin, good to know. I still don't think it is in the same league for overall performance as the Qualia, and that's based off my opinion of seeing them side by side as well as calibrating multiples of each. However, JVC does not intend for it to be a direct competitor, it only has been put in that category by this forum since it is also a 1080P piece.


We are all hoping Sony will surprise with a 1080P firmware upgrade, but again, it would be a surprise at least to me as it is a fact that most manufacturers are having definite issues with 1080P as a digital input, but most are still trying to get it to work. I know Sharp is still working hard to get their new 45" LCD to do it without issues; lets' hope so, as I know many a gamer that are going to use that piece as an ultimate PC or MAC display to game on.
 

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FWIW,


I am rally enjoying 1080i on the QUalia with the D-Theater tapes I own. I am sure that a native 1080pSF will be somewhat better ....but I wonder how much. It looks pretty fantastic with a 1080i input.


I would hope a firmware upgrade would be possible, I can't even imagine changing a board. That would certinaly mean the need of removing it from the ceiling, installing the board and then re-connecting back up to the ceiling. I'll have to look at my mount, but that may require realignment of the projector.


Bottom line...a lot of work. I can't imagine Sony offering it (but I hope they do).
 

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Jeff, the main advantage of 1080 24pSf that I see is that now I am back to the smoothness of pans and freedum of judder that I had to give up when I initially installed at 1080 60i. Since I came from CRT, I was very accustomed to film at 48 or 72 Hz with reclock.


The image is not any clearer on 1080 24pSf, but motion and pans are a whole lot smoother.


Vern


With 1080 24pSf, I also have the option of using Reclock on my HTPC.


Vern
 

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I am not the hard core video guy and thru my Pioneer 59 AVI, I am satisfied with pans, etc. I know it could be better but it is not to the threshold of bothersome for me.


That said....I'd still employ a fix.
 

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jeff

i can assure you when you see how much better the picture is in hd

without this stupid motion artifact you never like to go back!!!


1.5 years ago one guy from this forum build for me such computer.

depending on the soure( how manny bugs or bad edits are at the tape)

it runs more or lees stable.

and thats the problem more or less.

i will purchase asap a doubler or computer that have

1: a very good deinterlacing for 1080i to 1080p and not like the faroudja that comes with the jvc hd2k that do 1080i to 540p.

2:no bugs in the 24(48/72hz mode as most doubler have like the ....(forget the name)

3: have hdcp to use t-theater tapes.

4:a very good picture quality with control over all parameters.


vern

as odyssey ask already i am also very interested how many bugs your

computer have and which hard and software you use.

i like also to know which graphic card you use to output 1080psf

for the qualia.
 
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