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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The other night Angela and I had a wonderful opportunity to have dinner with Jeff ( thebland) and his wife after VDAMatthew's home theater meet had wrapped up. I had provided most of the software used at the meet earlier , so I had a big bag of goodies ( literally I had my gym bag full of good DVDs DVHS and DTheater).

First off, before I get into comments and comparisons I want to let Jeff know that this was a very gracious thing for him to have done.


What I did was select titles which were very good tests of what I felt were possible deficiencies of the platform. This was necessary because I know Sony doesn't show this type of material in their demos. Jeff had the Qualia in the high CR mode for the evening. I'm going to discuss what I saw a little out of order, however, to allow me to express this most effectively.


Darin had asked me to look at a specific scene in Road to Perdition ,which I have a copy of in HD. This was the scene where Tom Hanks mows everyone down in the rain at night. Here I fully expected there to be some glaring black level issues.... there were not. This, although apparently a very very dark scene , had really a mixed aspect to it. Just beautiful and certainly had no deficiencies to the look.


We also did a few others from this film which had what I told Jeff were classic low APL scenes. One of these the two sons are in bed one reading a book with a flashlight the other scenes one of them was hiding under the seat in Hanks' car. In these the elevated black level was more obvious. In these scenes there were times when a face was lit but there was almost no other information in the frame. In these on my stack those areas essentially match the screen frame with the Qualia they were gray. Another was in the DTheater version of Butch Cassidy. There is long scene of their attempts to escape the bounty hunters who were hiding on horseback in a train. It culminates in a night scene. Here there are times when all that is visible in my system are torches in the distance lighting some surfaces and very very little else( the background essentially matches the velvet screen border). On mine this is black all the way to the floor but with the Qualia the whole screen was gray with the brighter torches .


With my low APL torture tests my summary would be that I saw what I expected almost exactly as I expected except in the mixed night scene material which was just stunning in it's beauty. The last few clicks in black level simply were either invisible or unnecessary in the first place to render that scene so well.


Jeff had a copy of Shrek in HD. I had seen bits of this on my Runco stack before and I had seen the fabulous DVD many times. He put this in and certainly this should be able to allow us to see what this device could do with a wide range of things. I hope everyone will forgive me with this part of my post since here is where I have the deficiencies , I simply have an insufficient vocabulary for this part.This was the most beautiful,stunningly clear and clean images I have ever seen anywhere. I told Jeff later that I had left something in his theater ,I asked that if he found it would he return it to me, I believe I left it in the front row....... my jaw !!!:D The color gradations, the absolutely incredible detail were, well ,.........incredible! I told him that I was sitting there with this sensation that this is it this is display heaven. This is no exaggeration !

Even the fuzz on Fiona's velvet dress ( a third or fourth order detail )was visible.( this was over and above shading, texture and color). The reds and therefore the other colors like the sort of purple color of the dragon were unbelievable. I have never seen red anywhere that could compete with what this device can do. This was evident in watching the Dtheater version of Daredevil and the boxing scenes. Details in backgrounds such as fine cracks in the ash they were standing in were rendered such that even in Jeff's front row they were displaying things which were at or near the limit of my corrected vision. By the way Jeff, these cracks are visible on my G90s but not like that. I'll have to see if this can be further tweeked to pull that out better but I doubt it.


My expectations regarding CR and blacks were pretty close to what I expected, I was prepared for that. What I wasn't prepared for, and what is now etched upon my mind, is seeing how much better it does those things it does well , so much better than I expected. Sony did this right. Congratulation Jeff on making the right decision and Chris Collins for making that Ferrari purr.


Thanks again Jeff for a very very enjoyable evening ,one I'll never forget.:)


Art
 

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bland finally got HD? I thought he was a strong proponent of 480p DVD :)
 

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So, Art, do you allow one factor in the projection (non-CRT like blacks) prevent you from considering the Qualia?


Does the fact that it excels beyond your current setup in numerous aspects entice you to reconsider?


We all know that life presents a series of tradeoffs at every step. You have stayed in the CRT camp longer than most, and your system is overly complex, expensive, and high maintenance to boot.


The statement "etched upon my mind" suggests that you may be reconsidering your inflexibility when it comes to CRT blacks - that maybe it's negotiable now.


I can't wait to see what happens next.
 

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Great, so only thing Sony needs to do is add a dynamic iris, adjust for proper BL, and then get the price down to where mere mortals can afford it and we'd have a complete solution. Art, nice commentary.
 

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Thanks for the great review Art. Do you have a copy of Shrek in HD? If not, one of us should at least loan you a copy to try on the G90s. I can't wait for Shrek 2, but I'm not sure how long it will be between the DVD and broadcast in HD.


Did you try the "Hollow Man" scene where they bring the gorilla back? If so, I was wondering what you thought of the depth in that one.


Any reports on image noise? Was it something you noticed? If so, any differencies between the Qualia and G90s?


I knew that some scenes would show obvious black level deficencies, but wasn't sure what you would think of the gunning down scene in "Road to Perdition" as you had mentioned how good it looked on your G90s and when I tried it the Qualia it had done it pretty well. Glad to get your impressions on that one.


--Darin
 

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My list in order of importance:


1 through 23: Source

24: Colour rendition

25: Resolution


Contrast ratio doesn't even make the top 25.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by pinkerton
My list in order of importance:


1 through 23: Source

24: Colour rendition

25: Resolution


Contrast ratio doesn't even make the top 25.
Well then, you can be happy with CR
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by TheFerret
Well then, you can be happy with CR
 

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Art,


Excellent, beautifully clear review.


"Did you try the "Hollow Man" scene where they bring the gorilla back? If so, I was wondering what you thought of the depth in that one."


What did you think of the 3-D effect in general?


Thanks
 

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Darin,


I'll let Art do most of the descriptions as I am a biased owner:D... That said, I wanted to comment on background noise.


There is none. I found the Balanced power I recently installed for the whole system as well as the full digital (HDMI) link to the projector have rendered the noise pretty much a non-issue.


I'd like Art's comments as well! We really had a blast!
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by thebland
I'll let Art do most of the descriptions as I am a biased owner... That said, I wanted to comment on background noise.


There is none. I found the Balanced power I recently installed for the system as well as the full digital link to the projector have rendered the noise pretty much a non-issue.
Hi Jeff,


That is interesting about the balanced power changing things. What kind of noise were you seeing before that?


I was talking mostly of MPEG2 compression artifacts and things. The kind of stuff that would be mostly non-existent in HD Shrek, but common to most of the material we get. I don't want others going and looking for things that don't bother them, so if you don't see much of this kind of stuff then that is a good enough answer for me.


--Darin
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Art Sonneborn


Jeff had a copy of Shrek in HD. I had seen bits of this on my Runco stack before and I had seen the fabulous DVD many times. He put this in and certainly this should be able to allow us to see what this device could do with a wide range of things. I hope everyone will forgive me with this part of my post since here is where I have the deficiencies , I simply have an insufficient vocabulary for this part.This was the most beautiful,stunningly clear and clean images I have ever seen anywhere. I told Jeff later that I had left something in his theater ,I asked that if he found it would he return it to me, I believe I left it in the front row....... my jaw !!!:D The color gradations, the absolutely incredible detail were, well ,.........incredible! I told him that I was sitting there with this sensation that this is it this is display heaven. This is no exaggeration !

Even the fuzz on Fiona's velvet dress ( a third or fourth order detail )was visible.( this was over and above shading, texture and color). The reds and therefore the other colors like the sort of purple color of the dragon were unbelievable. I have never seen red anywhere that could compete with what this device can do. This was evident in watching the Dtheater version of Daredevil and the boxing scenes. Details in backgrounds such as fine cracks in the ash they were standing in were rendered such that even in Jeff's front row they were displaying things which were at or near the limit of my corrected vision. By the way Jeff, these cracks are visible on my G90s but not like that. I'll have to see if this can be further tweeked to pull that out better but I doubt it.

Art
That is a bit puzzling to me. I have Shrek too in HD and it is not particularly detailed or sharp

compared to other HD I have. Gladiator should look visibly sharper on the Qualia than Shrek.

It does on my CRT which is less sharp than the Qualia.

Also, Shrek (HBO, right?) is an MPEG stream at maybe 12-14 Mbit/s. With Qualia's direct pixel

mapping one should be able to see compression artifacts in fine detail and during motion brutally. Was there nothing visible? This over the air HD is considered 'crap' by many professionals that use less compressed HD in their profession ( not my opinion, by the way). This 'crappy' aspect should be quite evident on the Qualia. No compression issues at all visible?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by J.Mike Ferrara
So, Art, do you allow one factor in the projection (non-CRT like blacks) prevent you from considering the Qualia?


Does the fact that it excels beyond your current setup in numerous aspects entice you to reconsider?


We all know that life presents a series of tradeoffs at every step. You have stayed in the CRT camp longer than most, and your system is overly complex, expensive, and high maintenance to boot.


The statement "etched upon my mind" suggests that you may be reconsidering your inflexibility when it comes to CRT blacks - that maybe it's negotiable now.


I can't wait to see what happens next.
Mike,

Honestly , I think one comment will cover most of your post. I believe I have a reference video system but I could understand arguments that Jeff does as well.


Mine after set up five months ago has had no maintenance and I feel that it has an image that has significantly greater depth in all but the bright material. Even in Shrek there are many places this aspect rears it's head. My system is however very complex, and expensive but for me even despite the beauty of that Qualia the ability to reproduce black and the very very high CR associated makes it the right choice.


Please do not let my comments in this post however ,appear to diminish in any way my enthusiasm for Qualia .


Art
 

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I guess I need to start saving my pennies for a Qualia now.


I think I will get another in between, though. It takes a lot of pennies to buy a Qualia. :)


(OT woohoo, I just got a call that my Berkline 099's are in. :) )


Best Regards,

Doug
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by darinp2
Thanks for the great review Art. Do you have a copy of Shrek in HD? If not, one of us should at least loan you a copy to try on the G90s. I can't wait for Shrek 2, but I'm not sure how long it will be between the DVD and broadcast in HD.


Did you try the "Hollow Man" scene where they bring the gorilla back? If so, I was wondering what you thought of the depth in that one.


Any reports on image noise? Was it something you noticed? If so, any differencies between the Qualia and G90s?


I knew that some scenes would show obvious black level deficencies, but wasn't sure what you would think of the gunning down scene in "Road to Perdition" as you had mentioned how good it looked on your G90s and when I tried it the Qualia it had done it pretty well. Glad to get your impressions on that one.


--Darin
Darin,

I have a copy of Shrek in HD now !:D Jeff and I spoke about noise in Daredevil just briefly. This was DTheater and was no more or less noisy than when displayed on my G90s IMO. I had Hollow Man with me and had harped on how great it was at the meet ,as we watched it , but I did not pull it out of the bag at Jeff's. When we left I realized we had been at Jeff's for five hours but it went incredibly fast and we didn't watch everything but I do feel that I had the first chance for me to test it with material that was important for me to see.


Art
 

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Darin,


The noise I am referring to is compared to what I have seen in analog HD on my set up prior. Colors looking not quite as 'solid' as I thought they should be. Perhaps noise is even the wrong word. I am attributing its absence now to the full digital path of the D-VHS and the balanced power. It is not a huge, overall improvement ( no tweak is) but certainly evident at the detail level.


Regarding Art's excellent set up. After viewing we both agreed each represents an ultimate in video reproduction. I analogized it as choosing a luxury sedan.....I chose a 7 series BMW and Art went with the S class. Both excellent, beautiful sedans but having their own strengths (and weaknesses). Bottom line, neither is a bad choice for a luxury sedan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by mhafner
That is a bit puzzling to me. I have Shrek too in HD and it is not particularly detailed or sharp

compared to other HD I have. Gladiator should look visibly sharper on the Qualia than Shrek.

It does on my CRT which is less sharp than the Qualia.

Also, Shrek (HBO, right?) is an MPEG stream at maybe 12-14 Mbit/s. With Qualia's direct pixel

mapping one should be able to see compression artifacts in fine detail and during motion brutally. Was there nothing visible? This over the air HD is considered 'crap' by many professionals that use less compressed HD in their profession ( not my opinion, by the way). This 'crappy' aspect should be quite evident on the Qualia. No compression issues at all visible?
I was sitting about 11' back from a 10' wide screen , this SOB is clean. I mentioned to Jeff that bit rate isn't everything as we were watching this. I told him that I saw more motion artifacts when I saw AOTC in IMAX than Shrek in HD at his house. The only thing I could find was a tiny bit of shimmering on the border trim in the pattern around the neck of Fiona's dress. Just listen to that statement ! Jesus Christ,the flies flying around the sun flowers in the background were sharp.


I did not watch an HD version of Gladiator there so I can't comment as to how it compares to the other titles we did see.
 

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Art,


Great synopsis. I think you hit all points smack, dab on the head.


We had a terrific time and time just flew by....
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by noah katz
Art,


Excellent, beautifully clear review.


"Did you try the "Hollow Man" scene where they bring the gorilla back? If so, I was wondering what you thought of the depth in that one."


What did you think of the 3-D effect in general?


Thanks
Noah,

I'm sorry I missed answering your post. I did not watch Hollow Man and I feel that at a certain point down in APL my G90s surpass the Qualia in depth , in bright material it is a toss up.


Art
 
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