[ratsrcute]

I can't seem to find a forum about VHS, so thought I'd ask a question here. For those who are still way back in the dark ages and recording on VHS tape, can I get a suggestion for a source of blank tapes that is either particularly high quality, or a particularly good deal, or both?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Glimmie]

Try these guys:

www.tapewarehouse.com


I used to buy a lot of DVHS tape stock from them during 2000-2007.

 

[rdgrimes]

Good luck finding any at all. But if you can find some, new or used, SVHS tape will give you the best performance even on standard VHS machines.

THIS would be my choice.

 

[Zenyatto]

Mike has NOT said if he has a S-VHS VCR, HELLO?

 

[rdgrimes]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenyatto /forum/post/18207799


Mike has NOT said if he has a S-VHS VCR, HELLO?

As I already stated, you don't need a SVHS machine to benefit from using the higher quality tape. He said he wants quality.

 

[Zenyatto]



Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes /forum/post/18208927


As I already stated, you don't need a SVHS machine to benefit from using the higher quality tape. He said he wants quality.

Well if you use [premium gas] on your lawn mower mosquito engine>cool, long live quality

The last time I checked a S-VHS tape/S-VHS deck gives you close to 400 lines of resolution and the standard VHS/VCR 240 at best. Even with the S-VHS tape on a standard VCR you will NOT get any better than 240 lines. One more thing you get the best tape quality from D-VHS but they won't play on a regular VCR. I think! Can Moses work a miracle here? I'd love to see that! There's the quality talk unless you insist to have an overkill, some people do...

 

[rdgrimes]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenyatto /forum/post/18209104


Well if you use [premium gas] on your lawn mower mosquito engine>cool, long live quality

The last time I checked a S-VHS tape/S-VHS deck gives you close to 400 lines of resolution and the standard VHS/VCR 240 at best. Even with the S-VHS tape on a standard VCR you will NOT get any better than 240 lines. One more thing you get the best tape quality from D-VHS but they won't play on a regular VCR. I think! Can Moses work a miracle here? I'd love to see that! There's the quality talk unless you insist to have an overkill, some people do...

You can make the exact same argument for using $.99 KMart video tape instead of good quality TDK or Maxell. SVHS tape is engineered for increased high freq performance, since that's where the extra resolution is gotten from. Improved HF performance benefits any VCR by decreasing video noise, chroma noise, etc. The benefits are real whether you believe it or not.


The lines of resolution have nothing to do with it, it's about noise reduction. Not a miracle, just simple science. No different than using high quality tape in your audio recorder. Better S/N ratio, among other things. The OP is not about VIDEO quality, it's about tape quality.

 

[Brian81]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenyatto /forum/post/18209104


Well if you use [premium gas] on your lawn mower mosquito engine>cool, long live quality

The last time I checked a S-VHS tape/S-VHS deck gives you close to 400 lines of resolution and the standard VHS/VCR 240 at best. Even with the S-VHS tape on a standard VCR you will NOT get any better than 240 lines. One more thing you get the best tape quality from D-VHS but they won't play on a regular VCR. I think! Can Moses work a miracle here? I'd love to see that! There's the quality talk unless you insist to have an overkill, some people do...

I haven't tried a DVHS tape on a normal VCR but I don't see why it wouldn't work. DVHS tape is pretty expensive, however. I second what the guy before me said, the thread is about tape quality. You're going to get better tape quality with SVHS or DVHS tape.

 

[Zenyatto]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian81 /forum/post/18211304


I haven't tried a DVHS tape on a normal VCR but I don't see why it wouldn't work. DVHS tape is pretty expensive, however. I second what the guy before me said, the thread is about tape quality. You're going to get better tape quality with SVHS or DVHS tape.

You and your compadre are missing the POINT. It doesn't matter what tape you use the quality will NOT improve as long as you play it back on a regular VCR-240 lines of resolution at best, period>end of the story.The same principle applies when the DVD player sales were taking off. Then some TV's lacked an S-Video input or they only had one composite input already occupied by the VCR in use. Therefore some viewers with this problem opted to route the DVD video through the VCR composite. Because the video was connected that way(DVD player to VCR) resulted in diluting the DVD video signal to 240 lines. You guys tell me

I'd just remembered S-VHS tapes will NOT play on regular VCR decks. I did try them. A regular VHS tape will play on a S-VHS deck but NOT the other way around. The D-VHS will play ALL of them. The D-VHS will NOT play except on a D-VHS deck. Similar to the Blu-ray DVD player which will play BD DVD and SD DVD's. The SD DVD player will NOT play BD DVD's.

Thank you

 

[rdgrimes]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenyatto /forum/post/18211654


You and your compadre are missing the POINT. It doesn't matter what tape you use the quality will NOT improve as long as you play it back on a regular VCR-240 lines of resolution at best,

Unfortunately, you are the one missing the point. Lines of resolution is irrelevant. Totally irrelevant, not even in the conversation.


To the OP: if you want the best quality tape, get some SVHS tape. Ignore the high noise levels in here and enjoy the lower noise levels on your recordings.

 

[Zenyatto]



Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes /forum/post/18212408


Unfortunately, you are the one missing the point. Lines of resolution is irrelevant. Totally irrelevant, not even in the conversation.


To the OP: if you want the best quality tape, get some SVHS tape. Ignore the high noise levels in here and enjoy the lower noise levels on your recordings.

S-VHS tapes ONLY play back on S-VHS and D-VHS decks ONLY>that is a fact>end of the story. WHY don't you come-up with facts instead of your WHIP authority? Mike has NOT said if he has either deck and that is RELEVANT.

 

[tkmedia2]

You can use S-VHS tapes to record on a VHS deck for VHS deck playback. you don't need a S-VHS deck to use S-VHS tapes. I should know I do it often enough as I don't have any VHS tape any longer and still have hundreds of S-VHS tape. You wont improve on the limitations of VHS video quality, but will improve on tape quality, drop outs, noise, better coating on most SVHS tapes for durability, etc.

 

[tkmedia2]

without any plastic modifications:

A D-VHS deck can record in Data mode, S-VHS mode, VHS mode.
it can record in data mode onto D-VHS, S-VHS tapes (push the override D-VHS button)

-playback in D-VHS decks, that supports the correct data mode speed

(some D-VHS decks cannot properly playback D-VHS mode on S-VHS tapes)


it can record in S-VHS mode onto D-VHS tapes, and S-VHS tapes

-playback in D-VHS decks, S-VHS decks and VHS decks that supports S-VHS playback with the proper speed.


it can record in VHS mode onto D-VHS tapes, S-VHS tapes and VHS tapes

-playback in D-VHS decks, S-VHS decks, and VHS decks that supports the proper speed.

A S-VHS deck can record in S-VHS mode, VHS mode.
it can record in S-VHS mode onto S-VHS tapes and VHS tapes (with ET mode decks)

-playback in D-VHS, S-VHS decks and VHS decks that supports S-VHS playback.

(some S-VHS and VHS decks cannot properly playback S-VHS ET)


it can record in VHS mode onto S-VHS tapes, and VHS tapes

-playback in D-VHS decks, S-VHS decks, VHS decks that supports the proper speed.

A VHS deck records in VHS mode.
It can record on D-VHS, S-VHS and VHS tapes

-playback in D-VHS decks, S-VHS decks, VHS decks that supports the proper speed.

some D-VHS, S-VHS and VHS decks can only playback in certain speeds.
There are D-VHS decks that cannot playback HS speed.

There are S-VHS and VHS decks that can only playback SP speed.

There are some decks that have a hard time playing back LP speed.

 

[Glimmie]

SVHS simply has a higher and wider FM luminance carrier. That is what gives it more resolution. The chroma recording is the same as standard VHS, that is 629khz color under. So to record SVHS, the tape must have higher output at higher frequinces. The SVHS decks also provided seperate luminance and chroma output via the Svideo connector but they could have done that on standard VHS too, the internal processing in the VHS deck is the same as an SVHS deck.


An SVHS tape in standard VHS mode should give you a slightly better S/N and perhaps better drop out performance. Worth the cost? Try it and see.

 

[Glimmie]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenyatto /forum/post/18211654


You and your compadre are missing the POINT. It doesn't matter what tape you use the quality will NOT improve as long as you play it back on a regular VCR-240 lines of resolution at best, period>end of the story.The same principle applies when the DVD player sales were taking off. Then some TV's lacked an S-Video input or they only had one composite input already occupied by the VCR in use. Therefore some viewers with this problem opted to route the DVD video through the VCR composite. Because the video was connected that way(DVD player to VCR) resulted in diluting the DVD video signal to 240 lines. You guys tell me

I'd just remembered S-VHS tapes will NOT play on regular VCR decks. I did try them. A regular VHS tape will play on a S-VHS deck but NOT the other way around. The D-VHS will play ALL of them. The D-VHS will NOT play except on a D-VHS deck. Similar to the Blu-ray DVD player which will play BD DVD and SD DVD's. The SD DVD player will NOT play BD DVD's.

Thank you

Some errors here.


1) No consumer VCR I ever heard of had a true EE (Electronics to Electronics) function. When the VCR is in stop either the internal TV tuner or the external video input is simply buffered and sent back out the composite out jack. None of the VCR's FM signal chain is in the circuit. So the bandwidth is pretty much full, at least to 4mhz. Now industrial VTRs and broadcast VTRs do/did have the ability to monitor the signal all the way through the record/playback electronics and the cheaper industrial units (1/2in open reel type & 3/4 Umatic) would degrade a DVD input signal. But not on a consumer VHS or Beta machine.


2) A pre-recorded SVHS tape will not play properly on a VHS deck because of the higher and wider FM luminance bandwidth although you may get an acceptable picture depending on your quality expectations. I see no reason why an SVHS blank tape can't be used on a standard VHS deck. As said above the dropout rate may be lower and there may be a slight improvement in S/N.

 

[rdgrimes]



Quote:
Originally Posted by tkmedia2 /forum/post/18212547


You can use S-VHS tapes to record on a VHS deck for VHS deck playback. you don't need a S-VHS deck to use S-VHS tapes. I should know I do it often enough as I don't have any VHS tape any longer and still have hundreds of S-VHS tape. You wont improve on the limitations of VHS video quality, but will improve on tape quality, drop outs, noise, better coating on most SVHS tapes for durability, etc.

Me too. I used to have a stack of VCRs, some S-VHS, and swapped tapes all the time.


You can use regular VHS tape in SVHS recorders too, if you cover the little hole with tape. Results depend on the quality of the tape but they do work.

 

[tkmedia2]

Really that's strange, I never had to do that. All the S-VHS decks I've had didn't have any problems with recognizing VHS tapes. Some of industrial decks I have to use a toggle switch on the deck. The only minor compatibility hiccups I've had with VHS tapes was with PCM audio but very few decks support that. Still have some old unlabeled ADAT's laying around that I thought were blank S-VHS, I almost recorded over a few during the height of D-VHS.

 

[Super Eye]

1) Using SVHS tape in a regular VHS deck should improve the over-all picture quality. As others have pointed out, it has nothing to do with resolution but everything to do with S/N ratio and chroma noise. Although in my experience SVHS tapes exhibit more drop outs than VHS tape.


2) Most newer SVHS decks have a feature called ET. This lets you record an SVHS signal on a regular VHS tape without punching out the SVHS recognition hole. You will get close to 400 lines of resolution. You will have more chroma noise using a VHS tape. You should use HG tapes at SP speed.


To the original poster's question.

Unless you find a really good deal, $2 per tape or less, I wouldn't bother using SVHS tapes for VHS recordings. In fact I used to use high-grade VHS tapes to record SVHS on my ET machine.


I find that the maxell HG tapes had the best mechanism, good colors but chroma noise. The TDK EHG tapes had a very good over all picture but a worse mechanism. The Fuji HG tapes were in-between the two. If you can find some old stock BASF HG tapes - they have a nice picture but suffer from drop outs. Hope this helps.

 

[jjeff]



Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes /forum/post/18213583


You can use regular VHS tape in SVHS recorders too, if you cover the little hole with tape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tkmedia2 /forum/post/18213650


Really that's strange, I never had to do that. All the S-VHS decks I've had didn't have any problems with recognizing VHS tapes.

Super eye summed it up quite well but I thought I'd clarify these two points a little. You don't cover a hole to record S-VHS on a standard tape, you need to drill a hole in the shell(for SVHS VCRs that don't have the option in the setup). tkmedia2, in a SVHS recorder you can record standard VHS to a standard VHS tape without drilling any holes, where you need to drill the hole is if you want to record SVHS on a VHS tape(again unless your machine can do it without the hole).

Truthfully I noticed very little difference between SVHS and standard VHS(for recording) because I mostly noticed video noise which was quite similar between the two formats. I recorded mostly analog TV and my standard VHS recorder was quite high quality.

Recording a better source and if you had a cheaper standard VHS recorder you'd probably see a bigger difference between the two formats. At the time my TV was also SD(of quite good quality) which would show the noise but not the extended resolution of SVHS.

I used SVHS tapes all the time in my standard VHS machines mainly because I had good access to them at a great price, I doubt I would have paid much more for them since I noticed very little if any difference in picture quality compared to a good quality VHS tape. I've also been told a higher quality tape may have a smoother surface which would result in longer video head life, I can't verify this though.

 

[sanlyn]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ratsrcute /forum/post/18206737


I can't seem to find a forum about VHS, so thought I'd ask a question here. For those who are still way back in the dark ages and recording on VHS tape, can I get a suggestion for a source of blank tapes that is either particularly high quality, or a particularly good deal, or both?

Thanks,

Mike

I'm in agreement (so far) about most of the comments on blank tape media.


Since the late 1980's I owned several high-end consumer grade VCR's, both VHS and SVHS. Even the best VHS/SVHS tape plays with considerable noise on any HDTV made today. Inferior playback and artifacts are frequently seen on broadcasts of old tv shows which have been transferred from their original broadcast-tape to digital sources. Little of this noise is seen on a high-grade CRT (I'm still using a 19-year-old CRT to audition old VHS tapes).


For several years I've been converting hundreds of hours of (IMHO) priceless VHS sources to SD-DVD, and recently obtained software to convert and burn to BluRay (secret: VHS transfers with home equipment don't look any better on BR than on SD-DVD. In fact, most of them look horrible via BluRay/HDMI). Fortunately 3 of my high-end VCR's could be refurbished a few years back and they're still working. Once old tapes are denoised and processed on a competent PC with decent software, they play remarkably well on an LCD or plasma. Note: converting VHS to DVD will make them look immensely watchable, but they'll never "look like" DVD. However, filtering out tape noise and cleaning up the chroma noise and bleed makes a huge improvement.


I don't know of any sites dedicated specifically to tape media. But I've learned a ton of techniques for cleaning-up old VHS sources and obtained some excellent (often free) video software from these two sites:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/
http://www.videohelp.com/

Careful: you can spend months cruising these two sites -- but you'll certainly learn something about video, including HD.