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question about HVAC return

1083 Views 10 Replies 5 Participants Last post by  Talented Amateur
It appears that my house started with supplies only in the basment. In one room (unfortunately my HT room), the main supply and return trunk(?) is located. It looks like a hole was made in one of the main supply ducts to add a supply to this room, and two holes were made in the return very close to one another to make returns. One is high, and the other made high but connected the a lower opening in the wall via a stud cavity. The latter is rather large and it is basically getting dust and other nice things spread up into the cavites between the basement and first floor. If I patch it up, leaving just the one high return (8x6), should that be sufficient? BTW, to be clearer, this room has two supplies. The other room in the basement also has two supplies. Thanks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogg
It appears that my house started with supplies only in the basment. In one room (unfortunately my HT room), the main supply and return trunk(?) is located. It looks like a hole was made in one of the main supply ducts to add a supply to this room, and two holes were made in the return very close to one another to make returns. One is high, and the other made high but connected the a lower opening in the wall via a stud cavity. The latter is rather large and it is basically getting dust and other nice things spread up into the cavites between the basement and first floor. If I patch it up, leaving just the one high return (8x6), should that be sufficient? BTW, to be clearer, this room has two supplies. The other room in the basement also has two supplies. Thanks.


Normally I would ask 1)What size is the room? 2)What size is the supply duct feeding the future home theater room from the supply plenum? The second return located in the wall cavity (assuming it was 2x4 construction, 16" o.c.) is now sealed leaving an opening from the return plenum direct into the room through the wall. Is this correct? 3)What size is this opening? 4) Are your heat generating pieces of equipment to be located inside the room or a dedicated equipment closet? This can determine if your supply may be undersized for your future loads. The original builders may not have anticipated increased number of people and equipment in the space.


Typically a well designed ventialtion system with manual dampers will have a low return for use during the cool season and a high return for use during the hot season. During the cold season you would close the upper return grille and open the upper grille allowing the lower return to draw warm air down to the floor before getting back to the return plenum. During the hot season, the lower grille would be closed and the upper grille opened to remove hot air at the top and to draw the cold air (that would normally fall to the floor) to be drawn up to the ceiling.


If you seal one grille, it may be enough for a return but your comfort level may suffer. Leaving the upper grille open will likely be the best comfort compromise but you then allow a more direct path for sound to travel. If you were willing to acoustically line the return plenum, that would help matters greatly. You can also line the supply duct or install a commercial silencer.


Hope this helps.


Bruce
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Thanks for responding. The room is 13x12. The supply duct off the supply plenum is 8x6 and there is a lot of pressure coming out of this duct. Right now there is a square hole in the bottom part of the wall the width of the stud cavity on the other side of the room. This leads up the cavity to a hole that was made in the return duct. Perpendically right near that hole (at the top of the ceiling), there was a 8x6 hole made for another return. I don't think heat is or will be an issue. I would like to get by with just the 8x6 return near the ceiling, and just have the 8x6 supply (also near the ceiling). I do have a supply duct running on the opposite side of the room opening to a raw 6" round opening. I had that blocked before, and I am thinking about getting rid of it altogether. I am not sure why it was added in the first place, besides perfecting the air circulation.


The real meat of this is whether I can get away with having one 8x6 return near the ceiling in my basement, or whether I need more, or one lower. And whether I need more than one supply in a 13x12 room considering the good pressure out of that duct. Thanks.
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All returns should be high mounted and the supplies should (a) not blow directly on any seat, (b) not produce any audible air flow noise, and (c) should produce a velocity of no more than 250 fpm.
Hmmmm......I've got my supplies high and return low. I guess a lot depends on wheter heating or cooling is objective. But in a closed HT its probably cooling so given hot air rises having supplies low and returns high would probably be better.....too late now (at least for me)
Thanks, given that the supply duct with the high velocity is about 5 inches long because it is just a hole made in the plenum, is it best to put some sort of duct liner to decrease velocity if needed?
Actually....both the supplies and returns should be high mounted and on opposite ends of the room.


"Velocity" is the speed through the register in feet per minute. Your HVAC contractor will determine CFM (cubic feet per minute) for heating/cooling and air exchange requirements. Once you have the CFM required, you need to size your ducts/registers to achieve the velocity.
Dennis (or others) -


If doing a false front wall w/an accoustically transparent screen (&GOM or Dazian Expocloth) would it be permitted to put the supplies behind the screen wall or is it best to put them out in the room. I guess I am worried that the screen will ripple when the AC is on.


I am running soffits around, so it isn't a big deal to put the supplies in the room, just might make the recomended multiple 90 degree turns easier.
You don't want supplies OR returns behind the screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bogg
Thanks, given that the supply duct with the high velocity is about 5 inches long because it is just a hole made in the plenum, is it best to put some sort of duct liner to decrease velocity if needed?


A five inch long duct? Eeek!


Given a specific pressure, reducing the cross section in a duct (or even a plenum) will increase the velocity. It will also reduce CFMs.


What you need for proper control is duct installed off the plenum with duct liner and a minimum of three 90s to any other opening in the duct system. It would help to line the plenum but this adds to the cost.


For an example when designing typical commercial systems (office environment), a minimum of three 90s from space to space is usually adequate for reducing noise transfer. In special applications like social services where government employees deal with unruly people, the ducts are acoustically lined (there are several types of materials that manufacturers provide such as foam rubber, lined fiberglass and lined cotton, etc.). When using fiberglass, they have special pins with wide washers (some with glue) that gets pushed through the insulation and welded to the duct to hold the insulation in place. The glue is an added insurance to prevent fiberglass fibers from entering the air stream. It should also be noted that in the cases with screaming people, they also may line the walls with lead, use heavy sealed doors and provide extra acoustic insulation in the ceilings. I digress.


You will need a decent length of ductwork off the plenum that will allow the installation of a manual damper (set the air flow) and then size the ductwork to set the air velocity. As Dennis has mentioned, any HVAC contractor can perform this. It should be noted that the installation of a damper will introduce noise, especially if there is a lot of pressure in the plenum. I like to see at least one or two bends in the duct work after a damper to help reduce noise but usually in a residential application the ducts run between the joists and there is no room for extra bends save the elbow that feeds the diffuser.


There is a saying in HVAC industry that goes something like this..."The world doesn't suck, it blows!" Basically it is easier to blow air than to suck air. Returns must be sized larger than supplies for a good airflow.


If you want to figure out the air flow volume yourself there is a rough way to do this. Get a large garbage bag of known volume and empty it of air. Get a stopwatch and have someone measure the duration of time it takes to fill the garbage bag from empty to full as you hold the bag as tightly as possible to the supply duct. The volume of the bag over the duration can be roughly converted to CFM. To estimate velocity from this volume, you will need a Ductulator. HVAC contractors carry these.


As I mentioned, commercial in-line silencers for ducts are also available.


Hope that helps...


Bruce
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