[Luis Gabriel Gerena]

Greetings!

I was pondering (love Pinky and the Brain) the idea of trying my HTPC via its S-video output (Radeon VIVO SE) with my W400Q. Should it work? Will it be better than the image from my Toshiba SD3109? Any special settings I should know?

I am still trying to get the money to order the 9A60 converter so in the meantime I thought about this.

BTW, I am asking cause my pc is far away from my projector so it is not that easy to move it to my HT room and I want to make sure its worth it...

Regards

 

[mrbadog]

Haven't done it, but wouldn't expect it to be better. Wait for the converter and then feed it a HD compatible timing. Check out the thread by JonMarsh 2 years ago on the 400Q forum (just decommisioned mine for a DILA, but the HTPC added years to its life for me)

 

[Luis Gabriel Gerena]

Ok, thanks for saving the time as I didn't expected anything really.

Can you describe the improvement that you gained going from dvd player to HTPC with the W400Q?

Regards

 

[mrbadog]

There was a big jump in PQ, I believe clarity and detail were prominent features. Sorry I cannot be more specific, but I made the jump 2 years ago and its hard to remember my specific observations other than the overall impression. Basically, you are using the PC scaler in lieu of that in the Sony.

 

[mrbadog]

Luis, something else just came back to me. When you use the HDTV GBR input settings into the 400Q, as you would with a HTPC running HD compatible timings, the HD inputs have greater bandwidth, allowing better colors. This was also something I noticed back then. I did not mention this earlier, as I could not reason how better scaling would improve color, but taking advantage of the higher bandwidth of the HD inputs can. Again, if you search old posts here and on the 400Q forum, particularly by Bill Cushman, you will find more elegant and technically correct discussion of this.


This higher bandwidth is also the reason why HDTV looks so good on the 400Q despite its relatively low pixel count.

 

[Luis Gabriel Gerena]

Thanks for the feed back...I guess its about time I order the converter and see my 400 at its best.

Regards

 

[[email protected]]

Luis,

I currently own a 400q with a radeon based HTPC and the picture with the HTPC is awesome!! It blows away my Sony 7700 via component video! Do you self a favor and run to the nearest store and get the AA converter!! You will never watch the stand alone DVD player again.


Regards,

Chuck


EDIT: Luis Gabriel Gerena, I thought that sounded familiar. I have seen your posts on the Big Picture forum about raising the RGB values. I am surprised you do not have a HTPC yet.

 

[Luis Gabriel Gerena]

That does it I am ordering this Friday (payday)! Talk about convincing power Please, tell me more details about the differences between your Sony amd the HTPC. Are you able to get better contrast (maybe changing gamma a little)?

Regards

 

[John Moschella]

Quote:

Originally posted by Luis Gabriel Gerena That does it I am ordering this Friday (payday)! Talk about convincing power Please, tell me more details about the differences between your Sony amd the HTPC. Are you able to get better contrast (maybe changing gamma a little)? Regards

I made the jump with my 400Q about 9 months ago. The biggest difference is going to be picture detail which is much improved and is worth it just from that standpoint. Its hard so say exactly how much better the color is. With the ATI player you certainly have more vivid colors but its hard for me to say how dramatic that aspect is. This will take some time to get going but its clearly better for film sourced DVDs. For video based DVDs I think my STB player actually looks better because of deinterlacing artifacts with the HTPC.


Also you'll be using the HDTV component inputs.


John Moschella

 

[Paul K]

Luis,

Do yourself a favor and also buy a video input card. Another area where you can achieve dramatic improvements in picture quality is thru the use of dscaler. I use it to improve the picture coming out of my satellite receiver. In addition to deinterlacing video sources, dscaler also seems to punch up the color saturation and detail level. It can also scale these sources to the 16x9 screen of the 400q in a much better fashion than the scaler built into the 400q. I use a Pinnacle PCTV capture card which cost $40 and is worth every penny.

 

[Luis Gabriel Gerena]

I dont get it, what is the video input card for? BTW I have a Radeon VIVO.

Regarding the scaler I think that if I use the HTPC and 540P the signal bypasses the W400 internal scaler...I almost sure I read that somewhere. Am I right? Maybe is not 540P but I know that there is a way to bypass the internal scaler.

 

[mrbadog]

That is correct: when you set the input to HD and use HD compatible timings (540P), you bypass the internal scaler. The previous post I believe was referring to using your PC as a scaler for other video sources you would input through an S-video capture card

 

[Luis Gabriel Gerena]

Oh ok. I only use my fp for DVDs so no need for the video card but thanks for the recommendation

 

[John Moschella]

Quote:

Originally posted by mrbadog That is correct: when you set the input to HD and use HD compatible timings (540P), you bypass the internal scaler. The previous post I believe was referring to using your PC as a scaler for other video sources you would input through an S-video capture card

You'll have to do more to convince me that this is true. The 400q panels are 848x480, so if I send it a standard 1080i signal, it seems to me that it has to scale this to fit onto the LCD panels. Right? The 400q HDTV inputs are NOT computer inputs like that found on many digital FPs. I completely agree that the PQ is much better via the HTPC, but I don't think the scaler is bypassed completely.


As far as Dscaler goes, I don't see much of an improvement when using LDs or analog cable TV with the 400q.


John Moschella

 

[johnathan]

Hello Luis

I also have been using an HTPC/Radeon/Hipix with my 400Q.

The back ground detail is improved as well as a much sharper pique.


[You'll have to do more to convince me that this is true. The 400q panels are 848x480]

John

I think the panels are 1060 x 480. One of the things that I expected to overcome was the total loss of scan lines it didn't happen. Someone on the 400Q forum told me that those aren't scanlines but the LCD panels' inability to refresh fast enough .

Thus the gray lines on a vertical panning shot.

This was greatly improved with the HTPC and a higher quality cable. By the way these lines are present with the 400q and 1080I but are much less prominent .


Paul K

For scaling I use the HiPix and its Svideo in for digital cable tv. The pique is as good on some premium chancels as digital SD or some HDTV .

All in all owning an HTPC will help keep you future proof and when you do upgrade you will be set to take full advantage of your new projector. Happy viewing John

 

[DMILANI]

John,


Bill Cushman (published video expert) posted this on the Big Picture forum several years ago:


"Overall, the VPL-W400Q does a very fine job of displaying 1080i HDTV. It accepts the 33.75 Khz input of 1080i directly and the signal is not downconverted prior to being fed to the display. HDTV completely bypasses the scan converter and is not subject to the bandwidth limitations of the conversion process. 1080i is 1920 x 1080, but is sent out in two separate fields. Each field is 1920 x 540. The W400Q displays the two fields sequentially on its 1068 x 480 LCD panels, rather than interlacing them. Because the horizontal color resolution of 1080i is 960 pixels (1920/2), the LCD panels are capable of displaying the full horizontal color resolution of 1080i. Certainly it is not equal in spatial luminance resolution to a full 1920 x 1080 display, but its color and temporal resolution are adequate for 1080i without any signifcant loss of information. This is why it looks so great when displaying HDTV material."


In another post (I can't find it now) he states that each 540p field is centered over the 480 pixel rows of the projector, and 30 scan lines are lost at both the top and bottom. This accounts for the vertical overscan that is present when using 1080i or 540p signals.



Johnathan,


I've owned my 400q for about 2 years, and have an HDTV card (HiPix) and use an HTPC for DVD material. I've studied the "scanlines" issue on vertical pans quite a bit, and I've come to the conclusion that this is simply the grey spaces between rows of pixels (again, the delta pixel arrangement only helps in the vertical direction). It just becomes more apparent during verical motion - it's an optical illusion of sorts. Just to prove this point, next time you're watching a movie, just tilt your head 90 degrees to one side and you should immediately notice that you can see the individual rows of pixels.


Just my thoughts.


Dino

 

[Paul K]

Let me be more specific about dscaler improvements to television. I find that most 4x3 material looks best displayed natively thru the s-video input, however, letterboxed and windowboxed material always looks better when scaled with dscaler. Lately, I have been using Dscaler to make "Enterprise" on UPN watchable. On that one, I tune in the DTV (regretably not HDTV) OTA broadcast and scale the letterboxed image to fill my entire 9' diagonal screen. The improvement in picture quality with this show in particular is dramatic.


See this informative thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...er+AND+peaking


After following Ricardo Cruz's advice in the above thread, I noticed that the colors looked more vivid and the overall image more detailed.

 

[johnathan]

Dino

I had read Bill Cushmans review in the past. He and Jon Marshes

posts on the 400q forum were the reason for me using a 2.8 high power screen as well as an HTPC.

I guess my calling the light gray lines scanlines was incorrect.

Just as you have said they are the spaces between lines on the LCD panel. I guess they would be called horizontal screen door ? Any way other than these lines I cant think of much else in the way of short comings that I find that bothers me.

Thanks for the reply. John

 

[John Moschella]

Dino, thanks for the heads up on the 400q panels and Cushman's post from the BP. I did not realize that the LCD panels were non-square.


Given that they are 1068x480, this poses an interesting question. What is the best resolution for this projector? If the scaler is bypassed then the optimum would be the native panel resolution, so that is 1068x480. Has anyone tried this?


I'm still not convinced that there is no scaling going on. The projector must be doing something to make the images come out in proportion. If I send it a 16x9 resolution (like 960x540) the proportions are correct on the screen so somehow it must be scaling this to the non-square LCD panels that have a 2.22:1 ratio.


Interested in feedback.


John Moschella

 

[mrbadog]

"You'll have to do more to convince me that this is true."


Sorry pal. I gave you my best recollection from what I read 2 years ago and Dino gave you the quote from Bill Cushman's review. I'm no techie and I don't pretend to be able to explain Mr. Cushman's statement.


The role of the internal scaler I believe is to line double; this is not done to an interlaced HD input.


I found the best PQ feeding the projector a 1480 X 500(approx.) HD compat. rez.