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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Tom

At Infocomm you said the internal scaler for the QXGA projector was (much) improved. Did the M5000, which did look amazingly good too, also get improved scaling? If yes, do they both use the same processor? Are the artifacts pretty much gone now? Both those projectors were running hi def when I saw them, bypassing the internal scalers.


If the QXGA is fed a current S.O.T.A. 480P DVD signal directly into the component inputs, in the same aspect ratio & same size screen as a pre-M5000 SXGA D-ILA fed directly the same signal, what's the effect like with the projector converting the image to its full QXGA resolution versus a smaller necessitated upconversion in the older models with (by comparison) inferior scalers?


How good can a really good 480P signal fed directly into the QXGA look at the same larger sized screen sizes as being used for SXGA D-ILA?


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Ron
 

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Ron,


The current plans do not call for the QXGA projector to accept NTSC rate video inputs. It will however accept a 480P input or higher from a progressive DVD player or externally scaled NTSC source.


As to what you saw at InfoComm, both the QXGA and M5000SC were only shown with native HD sources, in this case 1080i sources from a Grass Valley server. The M5000SC does have to scale the HD source to 1365x768 and does a pretty good job at that as you saw.


The M5000SC currently has exactly the same scaling circuitry as the G11, x15 and x20 projectors. The new DS1 and M2000 as well as the forthcoming G150HT have a newer electronics system that includes a Pixelworks processor for doing the scaling. My opinion is that in most cases the new units scale better but still not as good as external scalers.


As Greg rightly points out, feeding a projector of this sort any NTSC signal is not going to give you very pleasing results relative to what you experienced watching HD.


For reasons I don't have time to go into at the moment, low-res (meaning DVD, DSS, VHS) sources look best on a projector that matches their native resolution when viewed from a distance where the screen door effect of the imaging engine is not readily visible. Yes, scalers and video processors do help the situation a bit but you can't create information that isn't in the source, only make sure you do the most with what is there.


A QXGA projector will only look its best when fed a signal whose resolution matches that of the projector.


Bottom line is this...before we go head over heals chasing the highest resolution projector, we need to get higher resolution source material.


Let's boycott all the crap multiplexes (which I began several years ago) until the studios relent and give us HD material at the local Blockbuster Video http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


I'm out of here, off to a party and fireworks on the lake tonight...everyone have a great 4th and be safe!


Regards,


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Tom Stites

Director, Business Development

Digital Systems Division

JVC Professional Products

"My opinions do not necessarily reflect..."
 

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Tom,


Have a good one.


When you get back can you clarify the source at Infocomm for the QXGA. I thought it was 1080p.


-Mr. Wigggles


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The Mothership is now boarding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
"You are not going to get "full QXGA resolution" from

a DVD - the native resolution of the DVD is far below

QXGA."


Yes, I'm not implying the QXGA is going to create all that resolution from 480P, as obviously not that much information exists in 480P.


My question, I guess, is that neither is all the 1365 X 768 resolution contained in 480P, and if you can get past the annoyance of the artifacts from the SXGA D-ILA internal scalers, once the camera settles down on a scene, the internal scaler is bumping up the image resolution sometimes amazingly effectively. Sometimes it's blocky. Guess it depends on the scene and the compression happening in the transfer at that point.


Since the QXGA has a better processor, but more resolution to upconvert to, would the image on say a 15-20 foot wide screen look better or worse hypothetically with the QXGA from 480P than similar size and brightness display from an M5000SC with the old processor? Does the higher resolution bump with the improved scaling circuitry necessarily always guarantee a worse picture? Would the QXGA create more of a blockiness, or will some of the least compressed, best scenes on a good DVD hypothetically look better than the SXGA unit at the same size?


Just trying to clarify for my own understanding on these two classes of D-ILA's and their respective scalers' performance. Not saying you'd have a QXGA unit (if you could afford one) primarily to run 480P DVD through it.


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Ron
 

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Ron,


You have to be careful here about "gilding a lily."


You are not going to get "full QXGA resolution" from

a DVD - the native resolution of the DVD is far below

QXGA.


Even if you have a progressive DVD player - the 480P

signal you get from one of these is no better than the

de-interlacer, or "line doubler" in the DVD player -

and 480P, itself is much below QXGA resolution by about

an order of magnitude - about 3 in each direction.


Greg
 

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Tom is right,


even if we all could afford a qxga dila machine right now,(let just say it costs $5000.00) it would not make sense or be worth while because there is no hd source video available to feed into this thing. this is like buying a pentium 4, 2ghz system just to do word processing for your term paper. 480p from dvd into qxga will probably look wash out than say an sxga I assume. for dvd purpose, I would say scaling it into a sxga dila would be the maximum resoltution to scale to. if, however, hollywood decides to release hd-dvd or other hd format and if we could rent hd movies like say in blockbuster, then it would make sense to own a qxga projector.


remember it was the porn industry that saved the vcr/vhs format and possibly the dvd's currently, so lets hope they jump into this hd-dvd or other hd-format soon haa? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif heck, let's all write to them to get them started to filming in hd now. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


seng
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Maybe this will put the question at it's most basic..... (please, I'm not asking the question in relation to what everyone has answered so far...telling me I shouldn't think about having a QXGA projector for 480P DVD. I know this, OK?)


If, at Infocomm, on that same 20 ft. wide screen, with the same brightness the QXGA and M5100SC seemed to have with their both brilliantly beautiful HD displays......If reference quality 480P had been A/B'd between them, what would the results likely have been?


Is everyone telling me that the QXGA would have looked worse scene by scene??? Probably only Tom or one of his associates could really tell us at this point.


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Ron
 

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RonF,


No, I don't think anyone is saying the QXGA would have looked worse. They would probably look nearly identical, the QXGA might even look a little better depending on whether you sat close enough to make out the pixels on the M5000.


Tom,


Do you remember what size the screen was at INFOCOMM and how far away the first row of seats were? Oh, and do you know if JVC will show anything new at CEDIA?


Regards,


Kam Fung
 

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Ron and Kam,


The screen at InfoComm was 20' wide x about 11.25 high...the first row of seats was about 1 screen height away.


I am saying that it is very likely that at any viewing distance beyond about 1.5 screen heights, the lower resolution projector would look better.


This is due to the fact that the actual pixel structure acts like a peaking circuit in an analog circuit and would make the resulting image look "sharper" than the image on the higher resolution device.


I see this happen all the time with NTSC sources when viewed on SVGA and XGA devices when compared to SXGA devices. 9 out of 10 people will say the lower res device looks sharper once you are far enough away so that you lose the "screen door" effect.


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Tom Stites

Director, Business Development

Digital Systems Division

JVC Professional Products

"My opinions do not necessarily reflect..."
 
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