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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First - a hearty thanks to everyone who has helped to educate this newbie over teh last few days. Finding this board has been great in terms of getting me (over)educated about plasmas.


I think I am pulling the trigger on a Pio 433 CMX. I know that I need to purchase a card to go with the monitor and that I have the 5002, 303, 1000, 1000+ and the KD card to chose from. I think I picked up some comment that led me to believe that if I have a signal from a source, say it is my DVD player, that the scaler board on some cards will process the image only to have it reprocessed by Pio's built in board. Do I have this right? Are their any boards where there is not a double processing of the image?


Thanks in advance.


Matt
 

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On all cards except the KD card (which is not available yet) and 1000+, if you feed DVD at 480p into the plasma - the cards will do no processing and will send the signal to the Pioneer scaler to scale to the native resolution.


I believe on the 1000+ you can feed component into the cards component input and it will scale the 480p to 720p or 1080i (however the Pioneer will still scale down from 1080i or up from 720p to its native rate).


Right now the only options to feed direct native rate into the plasma and avoid any 2nd scaling is using a Home Theater PC (the Bravo DVD player theoretically should work as well but have not seen anyone get it working yet) into the DVI of the 5002 card. The KD card (scheduled for 4th Q this year) and Aurora card (scheduled for 1st Q 2004) are supposed to have this native rate pass-thru as well. However, with the Aurora card you need the scaled input coming from a HTPC or external scaler. The Key Digital will have the Leeza scaler built in to scale all input sources to native rate (this should be the absolute best but at a high price $).
 

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Keep in mind that the KD card is already a year behind schedule so I would not hold my breath as to any time frame. Aurora also has no "firm" time frame on their "new" card and would not hold my breath on that one either. They are waiting for the 4th gen Pioneer to come out before they start work on that card and that may not show up until 1st quarter of 04.
 

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I run the A303 on my 503. I think it depends what you are going to use it for. I have D* and use a Sony HD200. The reason I bought the A303 was because I wanted DVI. However I have found better PQ running my HD200 via a good set of component cables via component input 2 on the Pioneer. I also find that the Sony does a good job on stretching SD and also watch SD via input 2. So in my case I am not currently even utilizing the A303 features and could have gone with the Pioneer card. Now some people running the new Sammy or Bravo DVD players are using DVI on the A303 and claim excellent PQ but I have no first hand experience with that. Keep in mind like Chris said that the Pioneer slot has to scale and cannot pass through native resolution. IMO that is what makes PQ better through input 2 component verse DVI input 5 on the A303. Input 3 s-video on the A303 for SD cable did come in handy and had good PQ but since switching to D* I don't use it anymore.
 

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Look in the new FAQ section where I spelled out the differences. Basically if you need DVI w/HCDP then the 5002 card won't accept it. They you have to go with the A303 or 1000+ card (forget the regular 1000 card it is an older model). These 2 cards give you DVI w/HDCP but you loose the ability to input from a HTPC or scaler the native rate of the panel (have to use the cards scaler + Pioneer scaler inside). A303 vs. 1000+ the 1000+ adds dual tuners for PIP and an additional component input.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Loker
(the Bravo DVD player theoretically should work as well but have not seen anyone get it working yet) into the DVI of the 5002 card.
In theory this does NOT work because the signal out of that DVD player is not a PC signal. It is well established that the 5002 card will not accept DVI inputs which are 480p, 720p or 1080i. These are not supported formats for the DVI input. Only PC signals (like 1280x768) are supported.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Loker:

The Bravo has a customizable menu to allow it to output at 1280x768, set refresh rates, etc.
Yes, but has anyone gotten the Bravo to work with a 5002 card?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
First, what is the difference in scaler between the A303 and the 1000+? I can't find any information on that.


Second, he is my tentative set up:


[Initially]


D* (through single channel Tivo)

DVD (non-progressive)

XBOX

VCR


[Ultimately]


D*/Tivo through HD Tivo Box (q1 or q2 2004)

DVD - Progressive and/or possible DVI Output - i.e. Samsung 931 (q1-q3 2004)

XBOX


Right now I run all - D*, DVD, XBOX and VCR - via component in through my Receiver, and Onkyo 575 and then from the Onkyo to the TV. (Am I right that the "component in" is the Yellow, Red, White RCA type cables while Composite is the RGB type connectors?) I am gathering that as I get better sources, I will want to run each of them directly into the Plasma rather than running them through the receiver. In that case, as I upgrade I suppose that I would like a DVI connection for the D*/HD Tivo or for the DVD. The XBox can stay in component (run through the Onkyo), and which ever does not go through the DVI can also go in component.


What am I missing? I gather that from the FAQ that the 5002 card will not work because the DVI is not HDCP compliant. Right? PIP is not a requirement, although it is pretty damn cool. And another question - what is the benefit of having multiple tuners on the 1000+ card? If I understand it, if I want to PIP to HD signals, I would need to have two HD converter boxes because you simply cannot plug D* or OTA right into the plasma. Does this mean that you can only do PIP with NTSC signals? IF so, what happens when NTSC signals are phased out over the next few years?


Sorry for all the questions. Thanks in advance for all the help.


Matt
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Cleaves
First, what is the difference in scaler between the A303 and the 1000+? I can't find any information on that.


Matt
I am pretty sure the scaler is the same. I was hoping that Paul Harris would chime in with the answer from the expert.


Jeff
 

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Search my old posts for a detailed report on scaler differences between the A303 and Pioneer's own 5002. I had both cards and ultimately sold the A303 on ebay. The DVI was useless because component looked better. Baja was with me the whole way and came to the same conclusion. Both PC signals AND video sources looked poor over DVI on the A303. Although the 5002 can't show video over DVI, when I connected my PC via DVI the results were stellar. So the DVI on the 5002 is useful while on the A303 it is useless. Unless you want the Tuner that the 1000 gives you, or PIP, get the 5002. And don't miss an opportunity to connect a PC via DVI. It is a real treat.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Cleaves
First, what is the difference in scaler between the A303 and the 1000+? I can't find any information on that.

I believe Jeff is right:) I think the scaler is the same. The 1000 will give you a tuner and the 1000+ will give (I believe) a dual tuner which is what gives you the PIP capability. I would not expect any PQ difference between the 3 cards. For the cost you can also just go with the 5002 and buy yourself an external tuner or go with a HD D* receiver which already has a built in OTA tuner. Zenith also just came out with an OTA tuner that has a 80g recorder capible of 8hrs recording time of HD material.

I will also back up dleidy and say that the DVI on the A303 has been a disappointment. Until they figure a way to pass native resolution through the slot I believe PQ will always be better through the display's "native" input's. You do need a card to be able to do any video through the display so you will need something. If I had it to do again I would of just got the 5002 card and saved myself a lot of $.
 

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If you have a digital/HD cable box (Time Warner's new one), with any of these cards can you run component to the panel, and the panel (or card) will know the type of signal it is receiving (720,1080)? And if it is a SD channel will you be able to stretch it?


Sorry as well for the absolute basic of questions.

Thanks
 

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dowlingm,


You would run component directly to the plasma. The plasma will automatically adjust based on teh signa (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i). You will have all of the stretch modes available in 480i and 480p (I do not believe you will with 720p).
 

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Matt -


#1 - the card in the Elite is the same as the 5002 (except the 5002 also has the DVI port).


#2 - You've got component and composite backwards. Composite is the single yellow video wire (white and red are the right and left audio channels). The Red, Green, Blue wire is the component wire.


You are going to want to hook up you SD devices (Tivo, VCR, Xbox) via the composite cable to the plasma (or s-video if your receiver switches that). You won't have to run the red/white wires to the plasma since I assume it won't have speakers.


I wouldn't worry about DVI right now. Each of the Pioneer cards right now have there own DVI quirk. Since no programming is currently being down-rezd via component I would stick to component cables. Therefore, I would say get the 5002 card now (upgrade later if needed).


So your DVD player and any eventual HD box would hookup directly to the plasma's 2 component inputs. Only a higher end receiver that says it will pass HD component woudl be able to switch these.


Please take the money you saved on the 5002 card and upgrade to a decent progressive scan DVD player (it will make a world of difference).


Other note - on the 503cmx all of the plugs are BNC. You will need to get cables that are BNC on one end and regular RCA on the other (or buy adapters). I would recommend ordering the cables on the internet with the plugs integrated in the cord (unless you have good cables now you want to continue to use).
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
if I want a Pioneer Elite hD800 without the ugly black frame, I buy the 433CMX and get the 5002 card? Sounds too good to be true.


Thanks for your help!


Matt
 

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Note you mention DVI DVD player -


The only way the DVI DVD player is going to make a difference in picture quality is if it will feed the plasma at it's native rate. As I was discussing before, several of the non-HDCP are theoritically able to output the native rate via DVI. As soon as someone spends the time to figure out the timings these would be the way to go.


If you went with the A303/1000+ card you would get DVI/HDCP but loose the ability to go into the plasma at native rate. You would have to output from the DVD player to plasma at 720p or 1080i and then have the Pioneer internal scaler bring it to native rate (loosing the real advantage in DVI native rate).


The ultimate in picture quality right now is a DVD player in a PC outputting via DVI at native rate into the 5002 card.


Until the next Aurora card or KD card comes out that will allow DVI/HDCP input at native rate (or HD starts getting downrez'd on component outputs), I do not believe upgrading from a 5002 card has any real advantage right now.
 
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