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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking at the Extron System 7SC Scaler/Switcher. For those unfamiliar with the unit, it's a 7 input switcher (Composite, S-Video, Component (HD compatible), RGB, RGsB, RGBHV) switcher with internal scaler (RGB, RGsB, RGBHV outputs.)


The unit does not have SDI inputs... however, Extron makes a device that would convert SDI to RGB, RGsB, or RGBHV --- which could be connected to the System 7SC.


Assuming cost isn't an issue (which of course it is...) would you recommend converting the SDI signal or simply using component video?


BTW: The associated equipment is a 107"x60" 16:9 Stewart Grayhawk Electric screen with 4:3 masking panels, a Sanyo PLV-60HT, and a DVD player (to be purchased, partially depending on these answers.)


Thanks in advance!
 

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Using the SDI to RGB converter box completely defeats the purpose of using SDI in the first place---to avoid an extra D/A and A/D conversion step.


Just get a DVD player with a good interlaced component signal out, hook it up to your non-SDI scaler, and that should be fine.


If you want the benefits of SDI, you need both an SDI-enabled DVD player and an SDI-enabled scaler.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's exactly what I thought.


Thanks very much for the input.


Since we're on the topic:


Does anyone have any experience with the System 7SC in a HT application?


Also, aside from the System 7SC, can anyone recommend a high quality switcher/scaler combination... with or without SDI inputs.


Thanks again!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ok, here's a multipart question...


1> What's the difference between the ISS 408, ISM 482, and DVS 406?


2> It appears that the DVS 406 only passes RGB and does not scale it. Is that also true for HD Component?


3> Do the others mentioned (ISS,ISM,System) have the same RGB-Pass-Only configuration?


4> All of these units have an option for an output resolution of 1360x765. I'll be using a Sanyo PLV-60HT, which has a native resolution of 1366x768. I'd like to set the Sanyo to native resolution (disabling the internal scaler) and do all the work outside the unit. Obviously I'll be missing a few rows and columns of resolution, but is this going to be a major problem? Would it be better to use a different output setting from the Extron (1080i maybe?) and leave the projector's scaler on?


5> Finally, my main problem with the DVS is it's lack of inputs. I'm planning on connecting a DVD player (initially with component, possibly SDI someday), a Sony SAT-HD100 for HDTV, a Microsoft XBOX via HD Component, a computer (XGA), a SVHS deck, and a Sony SAT-T60 for Tivo/SDTV. The number of inputs on the System7SC is what I liked... knowing that the DVS is better, can anyone provide suggestions for making these components fit? Perhaps the ISS or ISM units have the scaling engine of the DVS 406 (minus SDI) and would work for me?


Thanks again for all the help from everyone!
 

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1- The ISS is a Seamless Switcher with cuts and dissolves. It scales Video, S-video, Component, and RGB on any of the eight inputs. It gives you a preview and a main output, both scaled to the same resolution. It also switches stereo-audio.
http://www.extron.com/product/produc...408&subtype=41


The ISM is an 8x2 Matrix. It also scales Video, S-video, Component, and RGB on any of the inputs. Each output is independent and capable of scaling to a different resolution. This matrix switches stereo-audio
http://www.extron.com/product/produc...482&subtype=38


The DVS406 is a video scaler with multiple inputs. SDI and audio are options. Inputs include:an RGB pass-through, component to RGB converter, video, s-video, and optional SDI. See the link for all the details.
http://www.extron.com/product/produc...406&subtype=43


The ISS and ISM are designed for professional applications. The DVS406 is a Pro/Consumer crossover.


2-The DVS406 will not scale HD Component, however it will allow you to convert the HD-Component to RGBHV on the specified input.


3-The ISS and ISM will scale the RGB. The DVS and System 7 will pass the RGB.


4-When the resolutions are so close (1360x765 - 1366 x 768) you should not notice the difference. Also, to clarify, scalers do not bypass the displays internal scaler. Everything goes through the digital display's (Plasma, LCD, etc.) internal scaler. A stand-alone scaler will often give you higher quality because it will perform the de-interlacing (most challenging), decoding, and will scale to a resolution similar to the displays native rate, therefore taking the most challenging and most quality sensitive steps out of the display and into the stand-alone scaler.


5-The ISS and ISM have a different, but similar scaler as the DVS406.


So many choices. I am curious to what some of the other forum members have to say.
 

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Serlin, I beg to differ with one of your statements.


#4 (external) scalers do not bypass the displays internal scaler. Everything goes through the digital display internal scaler.


I cannot comment on all displays, but on plasma displays, if you send the unit it's exact native rate, the plasmas internal scaler most definitely IS bypassed 100%. The plasmas internal scaler will take any rate other than it's native rate and upconvert it, then downconvert it to the panels native rate, usually 768. This is the problem with the Faroudja NR for plasmas. It only outputs 720, so the plasma must upconvert to 1080 then downconvert to 768. While the NR is very, very good at this the ideal situation would be to bypass the internal scaler totally by sending the plasma a 768 native rate altogether.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Serlin
The ISS and ISM are designed for professional applications. The DVS406 is a Pro/Consumer crossover.


---snip---


Also, to clarify, scalers do not bypass the displays internal scaler. Everything goes through the digital display's (Plasma, LCD, etc.) internal scaler.


---snip---


5-The ISS and ISM have a different, but similar scaler as the DVS406.


So many choices. I am curious to what some of the other forum members have to say.
Thanks for the reply...


You say the ISS/ISM have different scalers than the DVS... any idea of quality comparison? I noticed someone from Extron recently said the DVS was higher quality scaling than the System7SC.


Also, if I actually set the projector to display the image in it's native resolution (1:1 pixel mapping) won't that bypass the internal scaling? If it's displaying exactly what it gets, 1 for 1, I understand that some pixels will be dark, but I can't see what it would need to scale.


Finally, any idea on how the ISM/ISS would handle HD component? Would it be scaled? The HD100 has an RGB output (locked at 1080i) which could be connected to an RGB input and scaled, but the XBOX, from what I've read, only has HD component... Would one of these boxes scale that?


Thanks!
 

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If a digital display device gets the exact signal frequency (it cannot recieve pixels as it is an analog line by line signal) THe signal must still go through the scaler. THis is because the SCALER is a multi process "thing"


(see Diagram)


When you give a projector what it wants, then certain steps are minimized or skipped (but never ignored)


The problem with the "wrong" frequency is when the projector does not recognize it. Then it tries to do the wrong thing. this can be a s simple as not displaying it in a wide screen format or as bad as not displaying it at all.


But make no mistake about it... you never (with an analog input) skip the A/D conversion/SCALER/Pixel mapper.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Dizzman
If a digital display device gets the exact signal frequency (it cannot recieve pixels as it is an analog line by line signal) THe signal must still go through the scaler. THis is because the SCALER is a multi process "thing"


(see Diagram)


When you give a projector what it wants, then certain steps are minimized or skipped (but never ignored)


The problem with the "wrong" frequency is when the projector does not recognize it. Then it tries to do the wrong thing. this can be a s simple as not displaying it in a wide screen format or as bad as not displaying it at all.


But make no mistake about it... you never (with an analog input) skip the A/D conversion/SCALER/Pixel mapper.
Having read that, it makes a lot of sense.


Are there any front projection systems (in the
 

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dloftis,


I can not comment on the quality comparison of the DVS vs. the ISS/ISM, as I have not seen a side by side demo.


Plasma rates only display at their native rate. Therefore if you send the plasma another rate it will internally scale to its native. Different plasmas will handle the incoming rates differently. You may want to check with Sanyo to see how it will react to a 1366x768 input.


Finally, the ISM482 and ISS408 will accept 1080i component (and RGB) and scale to whichever output rate you select.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Serlin
dloftis,


I can not comment on the quality comparison of the DVS vs. the ISS/ISM, as I have not seen a side by side demo.


Plasma rates only display at their native rate. Therefore if you send the plasma another rate it will internally scale to its native. Different plasmas will handle the incoming rates differently. You may want to check with Sanyo to see how it will react to a 1366x768 input.


Finally, the ISM482 and ISS408 will accept 1080i component (and RGB) and scale to whichever output rate you select.
Great info. I guess either the ISM or ISS is what I'm looking at considering that it does everything I want and has enough inputs... not to mention a few extras I don't need!


Regarding the resolution issue, I have an NEC LT-150, which has a "1:1" mode which does actually display what you send it without resizing... if I send it a 640x480 signal, it centers it and uses 640x480 of it's pixels... I'll contact Sanyo and find out if that projector has a similar feature, but do any PLV-60HT owners that are reading this know the answer?


Thanks!
 

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Lots of projectors have digital inputs available. Mostly using the DVI connection standard. SOme have SDI, but they are mostly "PRO" units. Much larger, more for commercial installations


It has been my experience that although the DVI connection is "theoretically" much better as there is at least one cycle less of A/D D/A, i have not seen a projector (currently shipping) that shows a marked difference between the Analog and digital inputs. (this is assuming a good cable and source in between) I have done allot of tests (albeit with computers and test patterns where i think the difference would really show up) and just can't see much of a difference. And with the additional challenges and costs of DVI, i think that Analog is going to still be here for a while.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
OK, I could have lived with the $5,000 price tag of the System 7SC, or the $4,200 of the DVS 406... but I need to rethink this some other way than the ISS and ISM, both are in the $10-$13,000 range... that's just too damn much.


So now I'm going to ask for some more input. As mentioned earlier, here is the list of sources:

1> DVD (Undetermined) - Component, possible SDI someday

2> HDTV (Sony SAT-HD100) - HD Component or Computer RGB

3> XBOX (Microsoft) - HD Component

4> DirecTiVO (Sony SAT-T60) - SVHS

5> S-VHS VCR - SVHS

6> Computer - Computer RBD @ XGA

I need to hook these up to a Sanyo PLV-60HT... Inputs are:

1- 15pin RGB

1- 5xBNC RGB

2- Component

2- Composite

1- SVideo



Any suggestions on how to get all this stuff talking with minimal effort and maximum quality would be great... leaving out those (previously attractive) ISM/ISS boxes.


Thanks!
 

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The ISS/ISM are $9,995 list price. I don't know what the street price is. You may want to contact the forum hosts or an Extron dealer. You may want to consider using the System 7SC. It is a professional model, but should be fine for your application. It does not scale RGBHV or Component HD.


There is no perfect switcher that I am aware of that will be able to handle the number and variety of formats without a serious $$ investment.
 
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