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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I made the switch from my 13HD to a 12SF. Although I miss some nice features, I'm thrilled with the overall picture quality. What I'm trying to figure out is if anyone has tried setting up any kind of "curtain" around the front of the projector to block out the light coming from the front grill? I'm using my old 13HD ceiling mount with the 12SF, so I have some room in front to hang some fabric to help with the light. The only thing I'm worried about is if I could create an overheating problem.


Another thing I'd like to know is if anyone else has a vertical stripe on the side of their picture? I'm seeing a portion roughly one inch wide on the right side that is much darker than the rest of the picture.
 

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I have the 12sf and do not have a vertical stripe on the side. Picture is beautiful, although it will be much better after they install the screen tomorrow :)
 

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I don't remember noticing any vertical stripes either.


Tell me more about it. How far to the "right side" is it in respect to the center? Is it all the way to the right edge of the picture/screen?
 

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there are two sources of excess light on the 12sf. Some is coming from the vents and some is from the optics.


to get rid of the optic one, cut out a square in something that is in the shape of the screen. To get size, place the cardboard etc. in front of the projector. Dont get very close or the edges will be fuzzy.


I dont really care about the light out of the vents right now, but when i get my new room set up, I will probably have something blocking it.


And for the stripe, Ill have to look again but on my 13 hd and 12sf there is a faint darker line going around the entire picture. But I thought it was just me, my source, or my cable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
thanks for the replies. I found what that stripe was from, it's my DVD player. But only in progressive mode. Which brings up a new question; why is there a dark stripe with my RP-56 while I'm in progressive mode, but not in interlaced? Also, when I go to interlaced, the picture gets much darker. Can anyone help me with these?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Oh yeah, one more thing. How's the Playstation 2 look on this pj? I'm thinking of getting one now that they've dropped the price.
 

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Some people don´t like PS2 on PJ´s. I find it absolutely perfect! Its super FUN!!!
 

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@Tino:


I also have the RP-56 hooked up to my 12SF. Yeah I noticed that switching from progressive to interlaced, the picture does get darker and muddied. Actually, in interlaced mode, you can adjust the contrast/brightness on the Panny that can come close to the progressive picture. But the latter will always be superior. I never watch anything on interlaced mode. Why and what for? That was the whole reason for me getting a prog. DVD player.
 

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Tino,


What you are probably witnessing is the diference between your DVD player's processor VS the 12SF's. The Faroudja DCDi in the 12SF should do amuch better job than your DVD player so make sure to set your DVD player to pass through the native interlaced signal to the 12SF and let the Faroudja process the signal to 480p. The result should be much better!


As for the PS2, I have one connected to my 12SF via the S-Video and the dithering can be quite distracting. I am quiet confident that when I switch to the [email protected] component cables this will mostly go away. Regardless, its a great combo, and the only weakness is in the graphics, not in the display. In otherwaords most games are designed to be played on TV's no larger than 36", so naturally when you blow up the picture to say 6'-8' wide you are going to see a lot of artifcats. Persoanlly, even with the artifacts, I love playing Gran Turismo 3 on the projector, makes you feel like you are right there on the track!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
If the processing in the 12SF is in fact better than the RP-56, then I'll keep it in interlaced mode. This way there won't be any dark stripe. The only problem is now I'll need to mess with the brightness settings in the DVD player. Is there any recommended settings on the RP-56? There's a brightness, and contrast setting while in interlaced mode, but also a black level setting. Also, has anyone ever done a comparison between using interlaced vs progressive into the projector?
 

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I'm not sure I agree with Austin re: letting the Faroudja in the 12SF do the deinterlacing of the DVD picture.


The RP-56 has the Faroudja in it also--which I believe does a better job than the pj because it is done internally within the DVD player. So by the time it sends the picture out to the pj, it is already deinterlaced and the pj doesn't have to do anymore processing; it just show the picture! If you go the other route, the DVD player sends the picture interlaced, then the pj has to go ahead and deinterlace it for you. Too much of a hassle. The former method is much more simplified and efficient.


I know...on paper, it really shouldn't matter because the Faroudja in the pj and the Faroudja in the RP-56 are the same and should do the job identically. But in reality, comparing the picture under progressive vs. interlace mode, you can readily see the difference! If the RP56 is in progressive mode, you see a bright, clear, sharp picture with beautiful saturated colors. When you turn the progressive mode "off" (green light in the front goes off), you get what you've already discovered: a very dim, muddied picture and it just looks plain UGLY. I don't exactly know why this happens! It doesn't make sense. But this is what it does.


Again, you can play around with the brightness/contrast on the Panny under the interlaced mode, but you will NEVER get close to the same picture as when you keep the DVD player on progressive mode. Like I said, I don't know why this happens.


The only benefit I get from the Faroudja inside the pj is that it deinterlaces regular broadcast TV (I'm using my VCR as the tuner. I don't have satellite TV yet), Playstation games and VCR playback. ABC,CBS, and NBC never looked better!


********

Now, let me throw something at you that I've been pondering for awhile. The Marantz DLP has 27(!) Faroudja chips working inside it that deinterlaces the picture and gives it that "smooth, velvety consistency." I'm wondering if both the Faroudja's in the 12SF AND the Panny RP-56 are working SIMULTANEOUSLY just like the Marantz to give that nice picture I was talking about above (when I keep the progressive mode "on" in the DVD player). Because I know whatever signal you feed into the 12SF, it will automatically be deinterlaced.


So....if you run the DVD player in interlaced mode, the pj's Faroudja is doing the deinterlacing (dim, muddy picture if brightness/contrast is not tweaked on the Panny). But if you run the Panny itself in "progressive" mode (bright, clear, crisp picture), does that mean both the DVD player AND the pj is working to deinterlace the picture?!?! I have NO idea. All I know is the picture looks FANTASTIC! I just thought it would be working the same way as the Marantz in this case.


--> Consequently, when I was shopping for a progressive DVD player, I performed a shootout between the Panasonic RP-56 vs. Sony N7000 (?). Guess what?! Both gave the exact same picture results as mentioned above when I ran comparisons between progressive and interlaced modes with the 12SF projector. Something's going on here that I really don't have the full grasp of. :( :mad:
 

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Joel,


I replied to your thread:


If you know the nature of how the Faroudja chip works, answer this...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...68#post1083168


But maybe this is a better place for it:


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Kudos an a very informative post, but I am still left with a serious question. On paper, your assessment of whether or not to bypass a DVD players interlacer looks pretty clear, but so far I have never seen the benefit unless using a projector or TV with an inferior interscaler.


For instance, just this last weekend I took my 12SF to the HTA projector shootout held in Austin and they were using a Sony DVP-9000ES DVD player connected via component displaying images from Video Essentials.


First we ran it with the DVD player sending out a progressive signal and there was easily noticeable stair stepping and jaggies in the picture, especially with the scene of the American flag waving in the wind.


We then switched off the progressive mode on the DVD player and VOILA, the picture looked as smooth as silk. The rest of the picture was unchanged, still same level of brightness, color, contrast, etc. The only difference was in the interlacing between what the DVD player was able to do VS what the projector was able to do.


I have made similar comparisons using the following progressive scan DVD players: Toshiba SD-6200, Pioneer Elite DV 36, and Pioneer DV-C603


All had the same effect as when we used the Sony 9000ES.


If what you say is true, then the results should have been the other way around, right?


Any idea why I am getting a far better picture by sending the projector an interlaced signal vs a progressive? All I can think of is that by sending a progressive signal to the 12SF it then bypasses the internal Faroudja DCDi chip set thus I am seeing the difference between the Faroudja and the DVD player's interpolator.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I may have an idea why you were seeing a change in the "Brightness, Color, Contrast, etc" when you changed the output of your DVD player from interlaced to progressive and vice versa. At least for me, I discovered that the 12SF allows for every type of input to have its own calibration settings. Usually this means that your component input has one setting, the S-Video has another, the DVI yet another, but at least with the 12SF they went one step further. The projector also allows for different settings for the type of signal being fed through an input. In your example, lets say you are using a component cable and you have the DVD player set to output a native interlaced signal. The 12SF recognizes it is a 480i signal and any changes you make in the display settings it will remember to use each time it received a 480i signal through the component input. So lets say you did as I did, and calibrated the settings for that signal. Then when I switched the DVD player to send out a 480p signal, the projector now has a new signal type and thus all the settings for this new type are immediately changed to the default settings. The result, at least for me, was a dimmer looking picture compared to the image I got from calibrating the 480i signal, but once I calibrated the 480p signal they were pretty much the same (except for the fact the DVD player's 480p signal suffered from poor interpolating stair stepping and jaggies).


Now I realize it sounded like you attempted to calibrate the projector and it still wouldn't give you a better picture, and in that event it sounds like you have discovered a strange anomaly.


Due keep us up to date on your inquires as to what may be occurring. At least for me, I have so far always gotten a better picture by bypassing progressive scan DVD players internal processor and allowing the 12SF to do all the interpolating.
 
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