[dave7]

I have a quick question regarding the Denon 5900's BM ability.

I do not use a sub, but my mains are full range (down below 20 HZ). If the 5900 is set to "no subwoofer" and the center and rear speakers are set to small, can you still set the crossover frequency and have the mains carry the that extra bass?

 

[dave7]

Someone please help with this. I am unclear after reading through the manual.

 

[kmmd]

Hi Dave,


I just tried the set-up as you posted on my 5900. In my set-up, it is similar to yours Front: Large, Center and Surround: Small. I turned the subwoofer to: No. Yes, the crossover points are still accessible at 40/60/80/100/120 with no subwoofer. However, "Bass Enhancer," "SW +10dB," and Subwoofer levels are not adjustable. I then listened to Bach's Four Great Toccatas and Fugues played by Biggs SACD and The Paul Smith Trio DVD-A on AIX Records. The sound is not natural with complete loss of the soundstage depth and width and loss of center definition. It also appears that the bass that was supposed to go to the .1 LFE channel is not re-directed to the Mains set to Large. It sounded as if the lower frequencies from the speakers set to small were lost. This was definitely more apparent with the SACD than the DVD-A. Therefore, it seems that the bass management of the 5900 is not quite that flexible for your set-up.

 

[dave7]

Thanks Ken,


I am all over the map trying to decide what I ultimately want. It is such a pain in the you-know-what! I like the Lexicon, but want the perfect package for Audio AND Video!


It seems the 5900 has great video (macroblocking is a confusing issue for me, but whatever). For Audio, the 5900 can be modded, and I am anxious to hear the result that you realize.


It seems the Pioneer based units all suffer from limitations in deinterlacing, and some CUE (although CUE does not seem apparent to me - maybe my DLP PJ masks it somehow).


Primare's DVD30 has BM that does combine the low frequencies with the mains if there is no sub. That is something my Lex doesn't do, nor any other BM within players to my knowledge. But I believe the Primare still has the same video as the Lex, although it is supposed to be upgradeable with a removable video board. And, no one seems to know anything about this new player.


Maybe just breaking down and getting a sub would eliminate some of my issues.


Oh well.

 

[YvesC]

I remember a post on a Dutch forum, where a guy without subwoofer was complaining that the .1 was not redirected to his front mains when listening to SACD on his DVD-2900

He contacted Denon, and was told that this was indeed impossible, because a DSP processor was needed for that


Now are you guys telling me that the 5900 can't do this either?

Because I'm interested in this player (and even more in the upcoming 3910),I have 5 full range speakers and I don't want to use a subwoofer.


What is even more troublesome, is the fact that DenonJeff stated (and it can be read on the 5900 Bass Management Schematics ) that if you want to listen to SACD without DSD/PCM conversion (ie Source Direct ON) you lose the Speaker Configuration.


So maybe you can check if the LFE channel is redirected in case of Source Direct OFF (unfortunately with PCM conversion)?

 

[dave7]

Good point about DSD to PCM conversion. I would like to avoid that conversion as well, so maybe what I am looking for is indeed impossible...at least for now.

 

[YvesC]

Let us know, OK?

 

[dave7]

I think there is an ICBM in my future.


I wonder if any modification company had ever thought of combining an ICBM with a player, and avoiding the external interconnects?


Yeah I know...I am obsessive.

 

[kmmd]

Quote:

YvesC posted: So maybe you can check if the LFE channel is redirected in case of Source Direct OFF (unfortunately with PCM conversion)?

My settings, as shown above, included the setting of Source Direct OFF. It appears that the bass for speakers set to small is directed to the .1 channel. It is not redirected to those set to large in the case of no sub.


BTW, when Source Direct is ON, the speaker configuration cannot be adjusted.

 

[YvesC]

Quote:

Originally posted by kmmd It appears that the bass for speakers set to small is directed to the .1 channel. It is not redirected to those set to large in the case of no sub.

Hi kmmd,


Can you check what happens if you set ALL the speakers to LARGE but NO sub when playing SACD?


Is there an important loss of bass, or is the .1 redirected to the mains (depending on the crossover you set of course)?


Thanks

 

[dave7]

I was kinda wondering the same thing...that is - is there any information on the LFE channel in SACD and DVD-A recordings?


I think I read somewhere that it depends on the producer of the recording. Some use, some don't.

 

[YvesC]

Quote:

Originally posted by dave7 ...that is - is there any information on the LFE channel in SACD and DVD-A recordings? I think I read somewhere that it depends on the producer of the recording. Some use, some don't.

Yes, that's correct, not all SACD use the LFE channel, some classical SACD don't even use the centre channel, just FL, FR, SL and SR.


In the case of no LFE channel, there's no problem since the sound engineers will have mixed all the bass in the other channels.


What I would like to know though: if there actually is a LFE channel on the disc, but one doesn't have a sub, can the 5900 redirect this channel to the mains (assuming those can go deep enough)

 

[dave7]

BTW - If it does redirect the bass to the mains, wouldn't it mean that the DSD is down-converted to PCM to accomplish this?


I don't run a Sub either and am running into the same sort of issues.

 

[kmmd]

Quote:

Originally posted by YvesC: Can you check what happens if you set ALL the speakers to LARGE but NO sub when playing SACD? Is there an important loss of bass, or is the .1 redirected to the mains (depending on the crossover you set of course)?

Hi! I am working on this... However, please understand that my center and surrounds have a low frequency limit of 80Hz.
Quote:

Originally posted by Dave7: I think I read somewhere that it depends on the producer of the recording. Some use, some don't.

This is correct. The 5900 actually displays the channels that have signals/outputs on the front fluorescent display including one for "LFE."
Quote:

What I would like to know though: if there actually is a LFE channel on the disc, but one doesn't have a sub, can the 5900 redirect this channel to the mains (assuming those can go deep enough)

No