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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just ordered an open box pair of Def Tech PB10B's from Vanns and would like to test them before the 7 day return period's up, but I need to order an amp soon.


I am looking at the $400 or under range.


I was strongly recommended the Yamaha RX-A800 by the stereo shop I was looking at, and it's on sale for $400 at Newegg now. I was just worried about the radio tuner people complained about.


Is there anything better around that price or less? I will only be using those two speakers for now, maybe adding a center or sub later. I don't need 3D, and I only need 4 HDMI ports now, though 6 would be nice. Mainly looking for best sound quality, and I liked the Pure Direct feature on the Yamaha.


My Wii and Cable box use component cables, if that's an upconversion concern.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Bump
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It's $600 at Crutchfield, only $400 on Newegg.
 

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The AX800 is a fine receiver. However, are your needs primarily for home theatre (upgrading to 5.1 or 7.1 in the future) or for music or both? Do you care about networking capability? If you do I'd go for the RX-V867 instead even though it's a bit more expensive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I may slowly grow to a 5.1 system, but probably just the two speakers for a while. It will be used for home theater more than music, but it will be used for both.


I don't really care about networking, except for firmware upgrades. My computer will be connected to it, so I can easily use that instead. I have a network TV as well.


Some negatives I saw with the A800 were a blanket crossover if/when I do add other channels and the radio issue (hopefully resolvable with the new firmware?)


My main concern is audio/video quality though, so if the Aventage line is better (as I was convinced by my local audio store - better internals, configuration) I'd like to stay there. Or if there is some equivalent Denon around this price range?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I don't know if the A1000 can set individual crossovers, but it doesn't seem to be worth $250 more. The Def Tech center and surrounds can go pretty low, so a 60Hz crossover should be fine when I get a sub. Networking isn't an issue with my internet TV, as long as I can get the firmware to update correctly, which seems to fix the radio issues.


I am leaning towards the A800 unless someone has another suggestion?
 

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You could also consider the Denon AVR-1712. I bought it recently and I was impressed with the SQ. It has the superior version of Audyssey, MultiEQ XT instead of MultiEQ or 2EQ found in other receivers so it'll do better room correction. I also had a subwoofer so I wanted at least MultiEQ so it can EQ my sub (2EQ won't), plus I have different brands of speakers in my HT setup and Audyssey helped blend them together and the Denon receiver let me set individual crossovers which was important to me. I wasn't expecting much from Audyssey as I'm normally a 2-channel purest with analog amps but I did like it a lot. The Audyssey curve that rolls off the high (which some people don't like) actually was a good thing for my metal tweeters in my speakers as I don't get listening fatigue anymore.


I bought the 1712 for $399, but I believe you can call various online dealers and get a lower price. I just got it off Amazon since returns are easy and I had free shipping (I'm a Prime member).


I am considering buying another receiver for my bedroom setup so I am considering other receiver brands just for something different like the older Pioneer VSX-30/31/32 (33 is the latest I think and is more like $500+) which let you do a lot of tweaking via MCACC. The Onkyo TX-609 is another one in the $400 range which has way more features than the Denon 1712, but only has Audyssey 2EQ so no subwoofer EQing. The Yamahas already mentioned in this thread look good too, especially the ones with the pre-outs since I am getting 4ohm speakers soon so the extra flexibility to add more wattage via power amps is nice.


Lots of choices in the $400 range, especially if you decide to EQ your subwoofer (when you get one) via some external device (Behringer BFD, SMS-1, Antimode, etc) rather than using Audyssey. When you do decide to upgrade your system to 5.1 or more, definitely spend the money on a good center and a good subwoofer. Don't skimp on those two as they are the most important for HT sound.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I looked at the 1712 actually, and it looked pretty good, except it doesn't do video upconversion, so I would have to run a component out to my tv and switch inputs on everything just to use my Wii. It seemed like a pain. MultiEQ XT seems like it would be better than YPAO, though the A800 does have the new Multipoint YPAO, I'm not sure exactly what it can do though. I probably won't have a sub for a while as I'll be in an apartment for the next 4 years of school. I'm hoping the BP10's will provide enough low end.


I have the idea in my head that the Yamaha Aventage series will sound better because they supposedly have better internals (also claimed by the local audio store), but I don't know. I did like the Pure Direct mode on the Yamahas though.


I would be willing to bump my budget up if I could get something that would last longer though.
 

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You could try and find this years Onkyo HT RC370 at a reduced price(although at it current Newegg/Amazon price of $530, it is a raging bargain)....


Nothing from Denon touches it(has your upconversion, "better Audyssey", and a real amp stage) at even another $200.


Even last years 270 is worth it(I've seen refurbs in the $450 range)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Wow, that does have about every feature I've heard of, and at a good price. I have read a good number of reviews about Onkyo not being the most reliable brand though, and I'll need this to last at least the next 5 years through school. I'll have to read more about it tomorrow.
 

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Onkyo sells the most AVR, therefor they have the most failures. Read the owners threads of the various Onkyo models(instead of just the two failure threads) to get a sense of what owning an Onkyo really means.


I have a TX NR1007 and two Integra(DTR 8.8 and DHC 80.2).


I've also owned, or have family members with...


TX SR707

TX SR606(two of these, neither has ever had a problem...and this one IS a "notoriously bad" AVR)

HT RC180

Integra DTR 6.8

TX SR674

TX DS777

Integra DTR 7.3


I don't know where the DS777 is now, the rest I do. They are all alive and kicking.


And no, not every one of my family members has "only Onkyo" either(I have a Denon 4810 as well). But, Onkyo accounts for around 40% of the HT's that I know of(family and friends) and for most people I know that have grown to 3 HT's in the house...of all those people(counting myself, one brother and 7 friends)...there is at least one Onkyo/Integra in all of those houses.


My house has 4 set-up...

DHC 80.2/SCG + Hafler

DTR 8.8

Denon 4810

Technics SA DA10N(yes this one is a dinosaur, my youngest, last kid still at home, uses it 6 channel off his computer)


Sitting doing nothing are...

TX NR1007(debating whether to sell it or keep in case something else "crashes". I paid $350 for it 18 months ago used on Ebay)

Denon AVR 788(bought for my "next youngest" son to take to college with him, he wanted the DTR 8.8...that wasn't going to happen, found this 788 for $275 with all the accessories untouched)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yeah, I'm sure it must not be a huge problem with lots of receivers, but the thread on the 360/370 with a number of different issues is still concerning. Cnet reviews have said a number of Onkyo models (e.g. the 609) just don't have the sound quality of the other brands, though they did not review this model. It seems like they have all the features for the price, just a little nervous about quality. I'm going to go see if I can compare some today and see for myself.
 

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I think Cnet reviews deserve to be written on rolls of toilet paper...


Ever since Cnet fired Gerstmann, I've never read another review from them. And that was hardly their first issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I have been researching all day, but am just more torn between the choices.


The A800 looks solid, but it doesn't have networking, has 1 blanket crossover, and doesn't look like you can EQ anything. Audyssey MultiEQ XT seems to be a lot better than YPAO. Does have a 3 year warranty though.


The Denon 1712 has no networking and doesn't do video conversion. You have to take/send it in for firmware updates as well.


The 2112 doesn't upconvert everything to 1080p and it's expensive. It does have a 3 year warranty though.


The Onkyo RC370 seems to have everything I could want and it has a bit more power, I just just a little nervous about sound quality/durability though. I am leaning this way now.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 /forum/post/20796741


I have been researching all day, but am just more torn between the choices.


The A800 looks solid, but it doesn't have networking, has 1 blanket crossover, and doesn't look like you can EQ anything. Audyssey MultiEQ XT seems to be a lot better than YPAO. Does have a 3 year warranty though.


The Denon 1712 has no networking and doesn't do video conversion. You have to take/send it in for firmware updates as well.


The 2112 doesn't upconvert everything to 1080p and it's expensive. It does have a 3 year warranty though.


The Onkyo RC370 seems to have everything I could want and it has a bit more power, I just just a little nervous about sound quality/durability though. I am leaning this way now.

If you are leaning towards the Onkyo, buy it from an authorized dealer new with an Amex Card and get three years of warranty total. That would help my confidence.

http://www.onkyousa.com/locations_intdealer.cfm
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Automatic Continuous Change of Listening Modes and/or Remote Controller Commands are not accepted


06/21/11 - Models: TX-NR708, TX-NR709, TX-NR808, TX-NR1008, TX-NR3008, TX-NR5008, PR-SC5508, HT-RC270, HT-RC370


Now I'm even less confident. The RC370/NR709 are included in the list of failure models from last year, the only new models in the list.


Has this been addressed in new units since acknowledging the problem? Or if I get an RC370, do I still have a chance of dealing with this issue?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I don't know what to do now. The Onkyo had ever feature I wanted. I think I definitely want Audyssey MultEQ XT and video conversion. The Denon 2112 only has one component input though, and my Wii and HD cable box use component outputs. It also doesn't do video upconversion. So I'd have to run the Wii through composite or get the 2312.


Anyone have any other ideas? Or the best prices I could find the Denons? Call Electronic's Expo?


Have there really been problems with the RC370? I think I have only found 1 HDMI problem is all of my searching. I guess it isn't that old though.
 

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Yeah, I can sympathize. There are lot of good choices in your price range $400 - $500 but no perfect model, unless you pay more.


That Onkyo RC-370 looks really tempting to me, too, as it's a slightly tweaked version of the Onkyo TX-NR709. It really sounds amazing for what it does.


You could research the 709 and see if there have been issues and that may help you see if the RC-370 is reliable as I assume most of the electronics are the same.


It's the X08 models of Onkyo, previous years models, that caused a lot of concern. This also includes the RC-270 which is based on a 08 model (608 I think?).


The RC-370 is newer, an X09-based model, so hopefully Onkyo has improved the reliability, and it seems it has. I, too, was swayed a bit from all the failure reports and I decided to go with Denon when I upgraded my receiver this year, but mainly it was because I wanted to try a new brand and never tried a Denon, but I've owned several Onkyos over the past 20 years and they all still work. I've had lots of good experience with Onkyo and Pioneer (but these are old models). I also, at the time, didn't know it was the X08 models that had the issues.


The video upconversion/upscaling, on the Denon models you mentioned, yeah, you'll have to use some workarounds, but be aware you might not be able to use upscaling/upconversion at all with certain devices. My Denon AVR-1712 didn't work with my cable box, but this a problem that can plague many AVRs with cable boxes, so regardless of what brand you buy, you still may encounter HDMI handshake issues and need to connect the cable box directly to your TV and use the optical out (SPDIF/Coaxial) from the cable box to connect to your AVR. That's what I did. Apparently it's the cable companies fault for the HDMI handshaking issues not AVRs. You could replace your cable box for free from your company to see if another one works. I may try to do that, too. In your case, you probably can look for one that has HDMI instead of just component.


Either way, that'll leave you still with a spot to connect your Wii with the Denon 1712/2112CI with component cables. I have a Wii, too, but I just ended up plugging the Wii into the TV and the audio into the receiver as I didn't have a spare set of component cables to connect the 1712 to the TV. It's works fine this way as I rarely need to see the Denon GUI while playing games. Newer TV and Blu-rays will often do better video processing than AVRs anyway.


Not sure of any deals on the Onkyos or Denon aside from calling online vendors as they sometimes can offer discounts over the phone. Authorized dealers are not allowed to advertise big discounts past a certain percentage online but phone or in-person, it can be a different story.
 
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