well as far as games I have no problems with the 8500 and i also picked up the VisionTek GF3 ti200 last weekend and i can tell you it is not faster.... now I do have some problems with the 8500 and some games... fs2002 has flashing textures, ghost recon locks up... but everything else Runs just GREAT... urban terror, quake 3 and tribes 2 are fabulas and in tribes 2 I can actualy see a speed differance between the 8500 and GF3. now as far as quality I would have to say I can't tell I don't care what the articles are saying when you are moving around you never have time to count the pixels... Now if ATI could just release that cable for hdtv output they promised (again)....