[dcc]

Got the D1 last week and did a quick post in another thread about initial impressions. After spending a little more time with the D1 and comparing it with my current Radeon 9600 PRO/Theater Tek based HTPC wanted to give a little more feedback from a mini shootout.


Notes:


-- These impressions are purely subjective non technical impressions of PQ.


-- Am testing on a Piano HE 3100 (did the firmware upgrade on the D1 which went smoothly)


-- Can't do a quick AB switch. We would watch some with one player then switch to the other.


-- Most of scenes tested were from LOTR -- Two towers.


-- Others viewing besides me were strictly movie lovers, not HT junkies, so their feedback is from that point of view. More subjective non technical impressions.


First it should be said that strictly from a bang for the buck standpoint the D1 appears to win hands down. For $200 it is tough to beat when compared to HTPC. If you are on a tight budget and want the PQ improvement that DVI brings the D1 is a nice opportunity.


I remember when I made the jump from analog based HTPC to Radeon DVI based HTPC. The improvement was amazing. No differences like that between the D1 and Radeon HTPC. PQ is pretty competitive.


Second -- on ease of use and set up, a standalone DVD player wins over an HTPC just about always. I built my HTPC because I wanted to and it was fun. If you are not into tech, the D1 is an answered prayer.


Now -- what about comparing the DVI Radeon HTPC to the D1 on PQ alone? Impressions by those viewing was mixed, but vote came down on the side of the HTPC -- barely.


In short, it was very close between the perceived attractiveness of the PQ of the two. Feelings were that the HTPC/Radeon/Theatertek produced a "more enjoyable" image. (i told you it was non technical)


But again, it was pretty close and the D1 PQ was also thought to be very nice by all who viewed it. There were some differences and I could see where those differences might make the D1 more appealing to some. The D1 seems to put a "harder" picture.


One note about the D1 is that the black letterboxed area surrounding the picture displays some noticeable blocky artifacts on my setup. It could be a setting is off in the custom DVI settings that is causing that, so I may be to blame for that but not sure.


The real test may have been when it came down to deciding which one to watch the next movie on. The HTPC won.


In summary, if you are into tech and tweaking then the HTPC is still top dog, but not by much and maybe not for long.


Anyone been able to do a true A/B comparison?


DCC

 

[CaspianM]

How about analoge output?

 

[Randall Morton]

Nice writeup. I agree that the PC & D1 are close but I like the D1 a little better. I'm using 720P via DVI to A Dwin TV3. I can easily use either and I almost always pick the Bravo over the TT PC with Radeon 9500 pro.

 

[rbmcgee]

DCC:


You have lumped ease of set-up and ease of use into a single category. As far as ease of set-up goes, most would agree that any STB is easier than a HTPC, although with all the problems associated with the D1, I'm thinking that the HTPC may actually be easier to set-up than this particular model.


When it comes to ease of use, however, I absolutely disagree with your conclusion and can only conclude you have not set-up your HTPC properly for ease of use.


For instance, on my HTPC,


My play process begins with either manually closing the DVD-ROM tray or pushing 'insert' on the pronto.


Girder automatically detects whether the media is a DVD or some other (CD, software, etc.).


If the media is a DVD, the resolution changes to 1080i, the mouse pointer is moved off the screen and TT is started. All automatically without having to push another button.


Once TT is running the the menus, warnings, commercials are bypassed, automatically.


The correct sound is chosen, the correct tweaked aspect ratio is applied, the correct tweaked color/gamma/etc. settings are applied. All automatically.


The DVD begins playing at the beginning of the movie.


All player controls (play, stop, pause, ff, rw, ch+, ch-, etc.) are all controlled via the pronto just as any STB. 'Close' shuts TT down, returns the resolution to the desktop and ejects the DVD.


Therefore, to watch a DVD, push in the tray or push the 'insert' button and wait about 20 seconds. No STB can compete with this ease of use.

 

[Axel]

dcc;


Thanks for your review - I was looking for a HTPC vs. Bravo PQ comparision for quite some time. Interesting result! Hmmm, maybe I should get a Bravo as a back-up....

____

Axel

 

[lawdawg]

Bob,


While I'm a big TT user/supporter, you forgot to add that all those tweaked per DVD customizations are available the SECOND time you pop your DVD in the drive.


The first time you have to at least set the movie start to bypass those FBI logos, etc. And I always have to select my tweaked aspect ratio to be correct, as well. So it's not just magically done. You need some setup on every DVD first, to obtain that kind of automation. Is it worth it? Oh YEAH! The people coming over to watch the movie, don't have to know. They just see it look seemless.

 

[schulzpm]

There is also a whole bunch of things that an HTPC can do that the D1 cannot. When it can record/playback TV (ala TIVO), play HDTV clips (like T2), play PC games (and MAME of course), and let me browse the web then it might be a competitor.


FYI, thanks for the PQ feedback. Unless it could blow away an HTPC though the above is enough for me to keep playing...

 

[dcc]

Quote:

maybe I should get a Bravo as a back-up....

We are putting ours in the living room and will move the PJ out there for those times when the audience is bigger than the HT.

Quote:

You have lumped ease of set-up and ease of use into a single category. As far as ease of set-up goes, most would agree that any STB is easier than a HTPC, although with all the problems associated with the D1, I'm thinking that the HTPC may actually be easier to set-up than this particular model.

You're right. I did kind of lump those two together.


Can only speak from my experience and I haven't had any problems with D1 setup or operation. Shipped and received as promised, download and installed the firmware upgrade as instructed, got the custom DVI settings for the PJ in this forum and boom -- a nice pic.


I see the same horror story threads here about bad D1 experiences and was concerned about getting a dud before ordering a D1. It is an important aspect in the decision making process.


But to hold the D1 accountable for bugs and glitches etc... and then not to hold the HTPC to same level in regard to issues like catalyst drivers, audio stuttering, TT licensing schemes, activating WinXP etc.. is not really fair.

Quote:

Therefore, to watch a DVD, push in the tray or push the 'insert' button and wait about 20 seconds. No STB can compete with this ease of use.

With TT et al the HTPC has gotten easier to use, but still -- I think most any STB is pretty close on ease of use. Just put the disk in and it plays. That seems to be one of their attractions.


Quote:

There is also a whole bunch of things that an HTPC can do that the D1 cannot.

Right on target there. Another reason I am sticking with mine.

Strictly on a PQ basis though -- it is pretty darn close.

 

[rbmcgee]

Adam,


Hmmm, strange that you have to choose tweaked aspect ratios manually. All my tweaked ARs, ie, Some Like it Hot, Marathon Man, Longest Day, get applied automatically.


dcc,
Quote:

Just put the disk in and it plays.

In no way am I an expert on STBs. Can most (any?)/D1, skip through the warnings and menus? Can they automatically select the correct AR, ie, non-anamorphic disks, etc? I was under the impression that most of these activities require arrows and OK buttons each time the DVD is played, not to mention the knowledge.


It is true that each DVD must be 'set-up' first, but still, like you said, invisible to the ongoing user or guest.


Of course, this assumes that you're playing a DVD from the disk rather than the hard drive. Then it's even easier and goes way beyond STBs. Don't even have to load the damn thing.

 

[lawdawg]

Bob,


I have a 2.35 scope screen, and have setup aspect ratios for 1.85, 2.35, etc. So they all have the same height and varying widths. As far as I know Theatertek can't recognize the difference between 2.35 and 1.85, they're both considered 16x9. So when I'm setting up the movie start I select my custom aspect ratios, too. Of course this this kind of flexability can only can be had from using an HTPC.


So I agree with you that TheaterTek kicks a STBs butt on features, but I also didn't want to mislead anyone into believing all the magic is done without ANY intervention.

 

[dcc]

Quote:

In no way am I an expert on STBs. Can most (any?)/D1, skip through the warnings and menus? Can they automatically select the correct AR, ie, non-anamorphic disks, etc?

I have only owned two DVD STB's and the Bravo is one of them. The best that either could offer that I know of is to let you set a memory point when you stop a movie to start at that point the next time you play the movie.


As far as the AR, I didn't have to adjust anything with the Bravo. It spit out the exact same AR as the HTPC by default. BTW -- I have never manually set anything regarding AR on TT either. No matter what I put in the HTPC, TT seems to know what to do with it as far as the AR goes and puts out the correct picture.


Just for another perspective on loading a movie to start right way -- we don't set TT to start the movie automatically. Viewing habits are a personal thing and customization is a great strong point for the HTPC, but the way we do it is the first time we load a disk we watch the movie. The second, third and maybe a fourth time are to go through special features (except for disks that neglect this area of course) Then we may watch the whole movie again sometime down the road for the disks we own.


As a Netflix subscriber about 95% of the DVD's we watch are rentals, so that "skipping the intros the second time you load it after you set it up that way" feature with TT never really entered my thought process as something one would want to do.


For those of you with big DVD libraries that you own, I can see the appeal that feature would offer.

 

[fredzy]

Dcc -


I have the same set up as you: Piano 3100 and Bravo. What resolution are you feeding to your projector ? I found the picture quality to be a bit lacking in LOTR TT. My system shines best with movies closer to 1.77 AR.

 

[dcc]

Quote:

I have the same set up as you: Piano 3100 and Bravo. What resolution are you feeding to your projector ?

Am feeding it 800X600. That is the native panel rez for the Piano, no?


The menu's look a little distorted but the movie seems to play correctly at that rez.