RadioLink (Vantage) or RadioRA (Lutron)?

You are really comparing different products. Radio link is more comparable to Homeserve in capabilities and size. Either will work but.... Radio Ra works in a restricted frequency while Vantage operates in the crowded 2.4 gig spectrum. Radio link frequency hops whereas Radio Ra is a single channel AM system. Radio Ra is limited to 32 high voltage devices and 16(?) keypads whereas the Vantage is limited to 60 devices period ( keypads or dimmers. ) Radio Ra permits you to use Graphic Eyes which increases the number of switch legs from 32 to 192. Radio Ra has wireless table top keypads; that is keypads not not only communicate via RF but which are battery or wall wart powered. But if you need a keypad where there is an existing switch Vantage has a keypad that will function as a light switch a la X-10. With Lutron you could install either a keypad or dimmer but not a device that can do both.


Here is where it gets interesting. Radio Ra has a contact closure interface but Graphic Eyes have even better relay boxes. It is more challenging to program but it is possible. Vantage also has what they call DIN boxes for this purpose. Radio Ra is the more kludgey solution whereas Homeserve ( Wireless Homeworks ) has even more range but more similar feature set to the Vantage product. I think the Vantage keypads less attractive and they certainly have fewer color choices. Lutron's Maestro dimmers and keypad styles and colors much more aesthetically appealing.


Any of these systems will work. You press a button and they do what they are programmed to do each time. Vantage will be priced similiar to Radio Ra but less than Homeworks. Vantage has the added ability of a much more robust programming utility and it can function as a mini control system. So it depends on aesthetics, price and ultimately what else other than electrical control you wish to accomplish. Vantage offers touch panels and the ability to control AV equipment. It is possible with Lutron but more difficult. Lutron's QED shades are superb but should you go that route I would definitely suggest using Homeworks and the Q96 shade interface.


Alan

Well, you've heard from two of the most insightful guys here on AVS - I assume triple Q is a guy - when it comes to automation and control and I myself as a huge fan of Lutron's Wireless Homeworks have to concur. You'll be able to do what you want with any of the systems. RA is more geared to the DIY'er and Vantage's RadioLink and Lutron's Wireless Homeworks are more geared to the custom install market. Not to say that a DIY'er can't learn to setup a Homeworks system because quite a few AVS members here have done just that with great success. The key is finding the right dealer that will work with meeting your needs either as a DIY'er or as a hands-off type of guy depending on YOUR needs. I personally don't like RA because of how it programs and it's limiting characteristics and I never sell it. The Vantage wireless system is definitely a step up because of it's programming capabilities. But if you want the best, there really is nothing that beats Lutron. People can argue all day long about all the different companies in the A/V and control market as to who is the best - Crestron or AMX, Pioneer or Denon, etc., but when it comes to residential lighting few will disagree that Lutron Homeworks is the one to beat. Now, granted you're hearing this from the owner of the largest Lutron dealer in the state of Texas in 2004, but I would be saying the same thing if I didn't offer Lutron.


QQQ pointed out QED - which stands for quiet electronic drive - and I can tell you that this product is absolutely phenomenal. Forget everything you know about motorized drapes. Noisy, Clunky, Squeaky, Bulky. All of these problems are gone - 100%. I had quite a few shade jobs last year and by far it is my favorite product to show the homeowner after completion. When the units are recessed into the ceiling they offer such a great option to a homeworks system. What people might not understand is that in a Homeworks environment, the shades program just like a dimmer. So if you want your shades to respond based on astronomical events it is very easy to accomplish. For instance, in my personal house I have roller shades recessed on every window. In the morning the east facing windows slowly open over time as the sun rises up over the house so that the sun is never shining into the house. You can stare at the shade and never really see it move but if you come back in 30 minutes it will be up several inches...it's very cool. In all of the bedrooms we have dual recessed shades, one that completely blocks all of the sun and the other that has 10% opacity. That way if you don't want ANY light in the morning on Saturdays you can accomplish this, but if you want a little to help you wake up you can. The same goes for the light dimmer as well of course. These shades are built exceptionally well also...the Lutron name holds true. I just received the 2005 sample fabric guide and it has about 200 standard fabrics for all kinds of possibilities. Anyway, I've rambled long enough...you won't be disappointed in Lutron. Feel free to post questions. Alan and I like to talk about automation topics.


Brent Huskins

Media Design

MoG,

You have definately chosen between two of the best companies for lighting control. Almost all of the previous comments I would agree with, considering my company installs all 3 of the "big boys" (Lutron, Litetouch and vantage) We are certified installers for all 3 and dealers for vantage but have a long standing relationship with Lutron. I only have a few corections and comments to add to this forum. First of all Vantage Radiolink operates at 900mhz spread spectrum 25 channel hopping with at least a 100' radius , Lutron has a 30' radius, provided that there is not water (especially infloor radiant heat) in between communications. This affects any radio frequency comunication. However that does not mean that it will not work, it just means it will shorten your communications distance. Next is that Vantage does not have a keypad/dimmer that opperates on x-10, this is also a 900mhz communicaton. Radio Ra is available up to 64 loads using a chronos processor, but the extra cost does not justify not utillizing a wireless homeworks system. Wireless homeworks can handle 64 loads per processor with up to 16 processers linked. Vantage can handle up to 60 loads per processor with up to 15 processers linked. Both can do more with things like grafik eye's or multi gang vantage dimmers. Your application really requires your to define what type of control system you really need. If lighting control and shading is your main concern than there is no doubt that Lutron is the way to go (I would highly suggest that you do not try to program this yourself, as with vantage, yes it is possible but a trained installer can layout and program your system without trial and error, engraving is nice and not cheap!) If you require more interfacing ie. RS232, dmx, IP or touchscreen control Vantage is more suited to your needs. Both have great warranties (If installed by a certified contractor) and neither have hardly any issues with faulty equipment.

QQQ,

I have found that the Vantage Radiolink product would work to 150' to my external garage with just the stock antenna. However, I had to relocate the antenna/master to get the house garage keypad to work with both vehicles in the garage. This was only 60' away. I forgot to test with the car and the truck parked inside

The Vantage Radiolink Trainer/tester provides real world testing for the enviroment you are going to use this in. I purchased one as soon as they came out and this has been the best testing tool for the wireless keypads.

I will counter Alan's statement regarding Lutron's Keypads. IMO, Vantage offers greater style in the variety of keypads, while I feel Lutron May have a edge in plate colors. The Lutron signature series slim switches are much better that the Hidden touch from Vantage, only because Vantage will only offer those in the finetouch buttons. Currently there is no switch like the bright touch from Vantage. This has proved to be a great switch, and easy to read at night. Full RGB control over the color of each button.

The Vantage vs Lutron debate has been drawn out enough in this forum. I will end with I love them Both, they make me $$$. These products, to me, are more important than Theater or Music in the way that electronics can effect your life.

Speaking of Halcro...I'm already one of their dealers...they only have 20 in the states...none in Colorado, maybe you should look at them. I can't wait to get my Logic demo gear in next month. The player has been postponed, but that's nothing new. Expect it out by CEDIA if not before and that's from Halcro as of last week. They still have a specific page dedicated to it on their website.


Brent Huskins

Media Design [/b][/quote]


We are looking at them now, very impressive lineup. Not sure what the deal is with the player but rep told us at CES that it was being dropped.



Also not to beat a dead horse but we have had vantage work over 300 feet. But would not recommend it.

And as of yet brite touch keypads are not available wireless but are comming soon. whenever that is.

Mia Culpa. Vantage Radio Link is most certainly a 900 MHz product but it does not change the point which is that it is in a very crowded part of the spectrum.


My point about the Vantage RF keypads is not that they send control signals via the power line but rather like X-10 and unlike Lutron they offer a product that can be both dimmer and keypad at the same time. That is the only hole in the Lutron system which of course you can work around by expanding the gang box. In a retro-fit situation it is an advantage to pull out an existing dimmer and replace it with a keypad without losing control of that load.


In practical terms both Lutron and Vantage make fine products that work. In terms of serial protocols there is hardly a difference. The main difference will be the aesthetics of the two systems ( and you can see that there is disagreement as to which is the better looking but as always I am right ) and the sorts of shades you choose. Should you opt for QED then it would be foolish not to use Homeworks. If you go with standard Somfy AC or DC motorized shades from anyone else then I suspect that there might be a slight advantage to the Vantage system as they have the DIN relay boxes and wireless Homeworks would rely on contact closures and the shade manufacturer's ( usually Somfy ) interface and Somfy interface products are to be avoided. The final point is that if you want to interface into an AV system Vantages software and hardware makes it easier which makes it the better system for that. As purely electrical control systems I suppose I would side with QQQ and go with Lutron. I like that their RF is in a restricted area and I prefer their industrial design. You will not go wrong with either.


One other insignificant point. Lutron permits you to add repeaters and Vantage requires one to add additional processors. 30' is 2500 sq ft. Lutron rates its products conservatively and I have 300' between Radio Ra repeaters -- and these were the first repeaters they sold.


Alan