AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello all! Happy late 4th.
I hope I'm in the right section. I'll also try to not start off writing a book, so just let me know what other info you might need as I'm sure it will be plenty.

Over the last year and a half or so I've slowly converted my over-garage upstairs bonus room into a dedicated projector room.
Not being an audiophile, the sound system was the least of my concerns. I've got a ~200w Samsung soundbar and small wireless sub package on my living room TV and always thought that was plenty.

So, after a few months of the integrated speaker in my projector I figured I would upgrade the sound upstairs and thought I would drop a little coin on something a bit more substantial than what I have downstairs (truth be told, if my equipment rack wasn't in the back of the room, it probably would have been another sound bar.. but sometimes it is better to be lucky than good). I did some minor research, mostly listened to the guy at the store after giving him my arbitrary budget, and I've bought stuff. "Ready, fire, aim!" fashion, unfortunately. It is what it is now.

Well... all I can say is that this stuff is awesome. What a total revolution to the experience of watching a movie up there. I've been going up there almost every day just to listen to music also. What I bought:

-Yamaha RX-A780 AVR
-SVS Prime Center, L&R towers, and satellite pair
-SVS SB-2000 Sub

I've read through all the manuals and watched some youtube stuff, and feel like the stuff is positioned about right according to most vanilla instructions, and I've run the YPAO function on the receiver to have it auto-corrected for the room.

Most music, in my totally uneducated opinion, sounds pretty good all the way up to as loud as I would regularly want to listen, but I did find one song today where there is notable distortion on certain notes at high(ish) volume.

Right now I'm just looking for ideas or ways to further improve the audio performance of the stuff that I now have.
Thanks in advance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
784 Posts
I'll bite. This will be very elementary. Start with the fronts. Position the HF drivers as close to possible to your ear level at the seating positions...usually somewhere between 38-42". Since you have towers this will mean getting the center speaker even with the tweeters in the towers. Getting the L/C/R HF drivers "on plane" with each other will maximize your front soundstage accuracy and provide improved soundstage depth.....allowing you to pinpoint sounds and their movements up, down, back and forth and associate them with the movements you see on your display and maximize your sound/vision immersion. Not getting the front tweeters on-plane is the most common compromise I see and it always degrades the most important front soundstage. Next move them incrementally in and out from the walls until they sound best to your ears at the MLP. Then adjust the tow-in of your left and right speakers. Again you are looking for the most preferable sound at your MLP. Summary so far...ear height, on-plane, distance from front and side walls. These adjustments will maximize your speakers response and make a significant soundfield difference and should always be done before any eq.

On to surrounds. Get them as close as possible to a foot or two max above ear level 90-110 degrees from MLP aimed at MLP if possible.

When you are ready to run your eq, make sure you absolutely minimize as much background noise as possible and get your microphone at ear level in your measurement positions and perpendicular to the floor/ceiling (pointed straight up). When measuring make sure you don't make noise or move the mic' until all the signals are done and the program tells you it's time to move the mic' to the next position. Keep your measurement positions within the prescribed distance from the 1st measurement position.

Proper surround sound requires proper speaker placement. Even the best speakers improperly placed cannot provide good surround sound, but mediocre speakers properly placed can provide spectacular accurate and immersive surround sound. Good Luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28,509 Posts
Since you have the A780 receiver add a couple Atmos speakers to the ceiling. That will enable you to have a more immersive system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,906 Posts
First off - congratulations on your first "real" HT experience and purchase. The others have posted some very good information, but I think they missed on one thing.
You purchased a SB-2000. You have all the right intentions, but for HT, the PB-2000 would be a MUCH better choice. I won't get into all the gobbley-goop of the technical stuff, but, essentially, the ported subwoofers play the lower notes louder (at least, to the tuning frequency, but that's part of the gobbley-goop). It makes a big difference when you have a decent-sized room.
If you can, I would exchange the SB-2000 for a PB-2000. They cost the same, but you will probably have a better HT experience with the ported subwoofer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
727 Posts
Hello all! Happy late 4th.
I hope I'm in the right section. I'll also try to not start off writing a book, so just let me know what other info you might need as I'm sure it will be plenty.

Over the last year and a half or so I've slowly converted my over-garage upstairs bonus room into a dedicated projector room.
Not being an audiophile, the sound system was the least of my concerns. I've got a ~200w Samsung soundbar and small wireless sub package on my living room TV and always thought that was plenty.

So, after a few months of the integrated speaker in my projector I figured I would upgrade the sound upstairs and thought I would drop a little coin on something a bit more substantial than what I have downstairs (truth be told, if my equipment rack wasn't in the back of the room, it probably would have been another sound bar.. but sometimes it is better to be lucky than good). I did some minor research, mostly listened to the guy at the store after giving him my arbitrary budget, and I've bought stuff. "Ready, fire, aim!" fashion, unfortunately. It is what it is now.

Well... all I can say is that this stuff is awesome. What a total revolution to the experience of watching a movie up there. I've been going up there almost every day just to listen to music also. What I bought:

-Yamaha RX-A780 AVR
-SVS Prime Center, L&R towers, and satellite pair
-SVS SB-2000 Sub

I've read through all the manuals and watched some youtube stuff, and feel like the stuff is positioned about right according to most vanilla instructions, and I've run the YPAO function on the receiver to have it auto-corrected for the room.

Most music, in my totally uneducated opinion, sounds pretty good all the way up to as loud as I would regularly want to listen, but I did find one song today where there is notable distortion on certain notes at high(ish) volume.

Right now I'm just looking for ideas or ways to further improve the audio performance of the stuff that I now have.
Thanks in advance.
I think your best bet is more education. Starting with continuing to enjoy what you have for awhile before messing around with it too much. Just listening to stuff will give you some sense of what you're enjoying or what you might feel you're missing. Perhaps you'll find you'd like some more headroom in the low end or the tweets start being annoying and headachy after listening for awhile or dialogue isn't clear, or maybe it'll be entirely satisfying, the only real way to know is to actually experience your system for awhile.
Then (perhaps while you're doing the above) read through threads here, and similar places, that interest you. That will help provide you with things you might want to do and what you may not. There are a few threads floating around here where people have posted about mistakes made or things they wished they hadn't put so much effort into that, obviously, can be quite useful.
Given that you probably don't have any restrictions on what you can do with that room, room treatments would probably be worth looking into. Again, I wouldn't rush into anything, best to have as good a handle on what you're doing as practicable, but you'll also have a better appreciation of any differences by appreciating what you have first.
Just a note on the distortion you heard. Most of the popular music of the last 20 years has been mastered in such a way as to (theoretically) sound more appealing at lower levels which has the side effect of adding distortion which limits the volume it can be played at without that distortion being evident and, often, painful. That may not be what was happening there, but it also might be something that you find happening a lot, as well.

First off - congratulations on your first "real" HT experience and purchase. The others have posted some very good information, but I think they missed on one thing.
You purchased a SB-2000. You have all the right intentions, but for HT, the PB-2000 would be a MUCH better choice. I won't get into all the gobbley-goop of the technical stuff, but, essentially, the ported subwoofers play the lower notes louder (at least, to the tuning frequency, but that's part of the gobbley-goop). It makes a big difference when you have a decent-sized room.
If you can, I would exchange the SB-2000 for a PB-2000. They cost the same, but you will probably have a better HT experience with the ported subwoofer.
You may find that the PB is better for HT, but you also may find it is worse for music.
Morgan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks everyone for the thoughts, I appreciate them all! To respond to some of the points:

Unfortunately all the packaging is gone so I have what I have now, in terms of the sub and everything. Receiver has a second sub output, so I can add another down the line if desired. I should have headroom on the circuit to do that. (The room is served by one dedicated 120V/20A line, but I think everything really hitting peak demand all at one time is extremely remote, right?)

Surrounds are placed as mentioned above... about a foot high and just slightly behind 90 degrees. The right one is a bit further away due to the room shape.... the YPAO measurement seems to pick this up well and shows more distance and a little higher volume to that speaker.

The tweeters on the towers are indeed just about at ear level. Regarding the center, I have what I assume is the most common problem in the world... my screen is on the wall, and the center is on the ground below it. Putting it in a horizontal line with the L&R tweeters would be a significant reconfiguration at this point with acoustically transparent screen and possibly mounting the speaker in the wall.

I do have easy access to the ceiling and could mount some speakers up there eventually.

The song (the only song) I've found so far with blatantly obvious distortion is "Inside" by Moby, specifically the beat hits, coming from the L+R speakers. Starting at about -10db on the receiver volume measurement. It is bad. Everything else at this volume level and above that I've tried sounds just fine to my untrained ear. I was wondering why that is and how to fix it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
727 Posts
Thanks everyone for the thoughts, I appreciate them all! To respond to some of the points:

Unfortunately all the packaging is gone so I have what I have now, in terms of the sub and everything. Receiver has a second sub output, so I can add another down the line if desired. I should have headroom on the circuit to do that. (The room is served by one dedicated 120V/20A line, but I think everything really hitting peak demand all at one time is extremely remote, right?)

Surrounds are placed as mentioned above... about a foot high and just slightly behind 90 degrees. The right one is a bit further away due to the room shape.... the YPAO measurement seems to pick this up well and shows more distance and a little higher volume to that speaker.

The tweeters on the towers are indeed just about at ear level. Regarding the center, I have what I assume is the most common problem in the world... my screen is on the wall, and the center is on the ground below it. Putting it in a horizontal line with the L&R tweeters would be a significant reconfiguration at this point with acoustically transparent screen and possibly mounting the speaker in the wall.

I do have easy access to the ceiling and could mount some speakers up there eventually.

The song (the only song) I've found so far with blatantly obvious distortion is "Inside" by Moby, specifically the beat hits, coming from the L+R speakers. Starting at about -10db on the receiver volume measurement. It is bad. Everything else at this volume level and above that I've tried sounds just fine to my untrained ear. I was wondering why that is and how to fix it.
That should be plenty of power. Adding subs or channels doesn't necessarily add that much draw, each element works a little less hard to achieve the same overall level.
You want the tweets aimed at your ears (usually, the amount of tow-in ideal for different speaker designs can vary), so the centre channel should be tilted-up to achieve that, if you haven't already. A laser level can help with that.
I'm afraid I don't have that track, so can't check myself but -10 is fairly loud. I do regularly listen to albums with a lot of Dynamic Range at that level but compressed masters from the last 20 years are usually difficult to enjoy past -18 (quickly gets painful).
I don't know the specs on your AVR or speakers but given the volume you're talking about and the kind of distortion you're describing I would say it's possible something is being overdriven. Playing something a little louder takes a lot more power, playing something a lot louder takes a hell of a lot more power. This would be especially true if you're running your towers full-range and aren't using the sub for two-channel but could still happen even if that isn't the case.
Morgan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
665 Posts
Thanks everyone for the thoughts, I appreciate them all! To respond to some of the points:

Unfortunately all the packaging is gone so I have what I have now, in terms of the sub and everything. Receiver has a second sub output, so I can add another down the line if desired. I should have headroom on the circuit to do that. (The room is served by one dedicated 120V/20A line, but I think everything really hitting peak demand all at one time is extremely remote, right?)

Surrounds are placed as mentioned above... about a foot high and just slightly behind 90 degrees. The right one is a bit further away due to the room shape.... the YPAO measurement seems to pick this up well and shows more distance and a little higher volume to that speaker.

The tweeters on the towers are indeed just about at ear level. Regarding the center, I have what I assume is the most common problem in the world... my screen is on the wall, and the center is on the ground below it. Putting it in a horizontal line with the L&R tweeters would be a significant reconfiguration at this point with acoustically transparent screen and possibly mounting the speaker in the wall.

I do have easy access to the ceiling and could mount some speakers up there eventually.

The song (the only song) I've found so far with blatantly obvious distortion is "Inside" by Moby, specifically the beat hits, coming from the L+R speakers. Starting at about -10db on the receiver volume measurement. It is bad. Everything else at this volume level and above that I've tried sounds just fine to my untrained ear. I was wondering why that is and how to fix it.
For your center try using wedges to angle it pointing to the listening position the best you can. What mode were you listening? I just popped that track on to see what I heard. I listened at -10 in stereo mode (left, right, sub). That beat has a sharp punch to it giving me some chest thump. There is also some long drawn out organ notes that give my tummy a tingling feeling. Are you able to tell those sounds apart? Also despite my best efforts by using cut out rubber on my vents to eliminate rattle, this song and I assume those organ notes, got my vent to buzz some. Is there something in the room that is resonating with this song?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks again guys.
The L+R are toe'd in a bit, probably not quite pointing directly at me, but close.
For the center I could angle it up some. I'll have to find a semi decent-looking way to do that. That speaker does not have any standard ability to mount feet on the bottom. Maybe cut out some wood triangles of appropriate size and wrap them in felt?

I played the same track again last night to make sure I was remembering correctly, and actually it is more like -5 to -3 volume range where the distortion on the beat hits becomes very noticeable. I'll have to listen again to see about the organ notes. I don't think it is anything outside the speakers rattling. Which vents are you talking about exactly? I'm listening to the music in a 2.1 mode so the center channel is not in play there. Also I'm streaming it on Amazon Music mid-tier package (the first one where you have to pay extra as a Prime member, not the top package with the highest quality/highest bitrate files.... I'm definitely not to the point yet where I know if that will matter or not, just throwing it out there).

The key specs on the components:

Receiver:
Channels: 7.2
Rated output power (1kHz, 2ch driven): 110W (8 ohms, 0.9% THD)
Rated output power (20Hz - 20kHz, 2ch driven): 95W (1kHz, 8 ohms, 0.06% THD)
Maximum effective output power (1kHz, 1ch driven) (JEITA): 160W (8 ohms, 10% THD)
Dynamic power per channel (8/6/4/2 ohms): 130/170/195/240W

L+R speakers:
Frequency response: 30 - 25Hz ± 3dB
Port: Dual 1.7" wide-flared, rear-firing
Midrange-to-tweeter crossover: 2.1kHz (12dB/octave slopes)
Top woofer-to-midrange crossover: 350Hz (12dB/octave slopes)
Bottom woofer-to-midrange crossover: 165Hz (customized filter Q and slope)
Rated bandwidth: 30Hz - 25kHz (±3dB)
Nominal impedance 8 ohms
Sensitivity: 87dB (2.83V @ 1 meter full-space, 300-3kHz)
Recommended amplifier power: 20 - 250 watts

I've read that third line in the receiver section is really the important one (power across the entire frequency range?)
So if I'm actually delivering 95W per channel, it would appear in the lower half of the recommended range of the speakers?

Also I've looked and I can't find anywhere that tells me exactly where the sub crossover point is.
Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,290 Posts
First off - congratulations on your first "real" HT experience and purchase. The others have posted some very good information, but I think they missed on one thing.
You purchased a SB-2000. You have all the right intentions, but for HT, the PB-2000 would be a MUCH better choice. I won't get into all the gobbley-goop of the technical stuff, but, essentially, the ported subwoofers play the lower notes louder (at least, to the tuning frequency, but that's part of the gobbley-goop). It makes a big difference when you have a decent-sized room.
If you can, I would exchange the SB-2000 for a PB-2000. They cost the same, but you will probably have a better HT experience with the ported subwoofer.
The trade up program is included in the bill of rights. Trading up to a PB-2000/3000 should not be a problem and should not be very expensive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,290 Posts
Thanks again guys.
The L+R are toe'd in a bit, probably not quite pointing directly at me, but close.
For the center I could angle it up some. I'll have to find a semi decent-looking way to do that. That speaker does not have any standard ability to mount feet on the bottom. Maybe cut out some wood triangles of appropriate size and wrap them in felt?

I played the same track again last night to make sure I was remembering correctly, and actually it is more like -5 to -3 volume range where the distortion on the beat hits becomes very noticeable. I'll have to listen again to see about the organ notes. I don't think it is anything outside the speakers rattling. Which vents are you talking about exactly? I'm listening to the music in a 2.1 mode so the center channel is not in play there. Also I'm streaming it on Amazon Music mid-tier package (the first one where you have to pay extra as a Prime member, not the top package with the highest quality/highest bitrate files.... I'm definitely not to the point yet where I know if that will matter or not, just throwing it out there).

The key specs on the components:

Receiver:
Channels: 7.2
Rated output power (1kHz, 2ch driven): 110W (8 ohms, 0.9% THD)
Rated output power (20Hz - 20kHz, 2ch driven): 95W (1kHz, 8 ohms, 0.06% THD)
Maximum effective output power (1kHz, 1ch driven) (JEITA): 160W (8 ohms, 10% THD)
Dynamic power per channel (8/6/4/2 ohms): 130/170/195/240W

L+R speakers:
Frequency response: 30 - 25Hz ± 3dB
Port: Dual 1.7" wide-flared, rear-firing
Midrange-to-tweeter crossover: 2.1kHz (12dB/octave slopes)
Top woofer-to-midrange crossover: 350Hz (12dB/octave slopes)
Bottom woofer-to-midrange crossover: 165Hz (customized filter Q and slope)
Rated bandwidth: 30Hz - 25kHz (±3dB)
Nominal impedance 8 ohms
Sensitivity: 87dB (2.83V @ 1 meter full-space, 300-3kHz)
Recommended amplifier power: 20 - 250 watts

I've read that third line in the receiver section is really the important one (power across the entire frequency range?)
So if I'm actually delivering 95W per channel, it would appear in the lower half of the recommended range of the speakers?

Also I've looked and I can't find anywhere that tells me exactly where the sub crossover point is.
Thanks again.
Did you set all speakers to small and set the crossover to 80hz on the front 3 and 100-110hz on the satellites? I know it's a silly question, but often gets overlooked by first timers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
No, I definitely have not done any of that.
I guess I'll have to look harder to find the assigned crossover point.
Currently the receiver is assigning it based on the YPAO calibration but I haven't found exactly where it is or how to manually change it at the receiver.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,290 Posts
No, I definitely have not done any of that.
I guess I'll have to look harder to find the assigned crossover point.
Currently the receiver is assigning it based on the YPAO calibration but I haven't found exactly where it is or how to manually change it at the receiver.
Menu> Setup> Configuration: Set fronts to small with an 80hz crossover and surround speakers to 100hz, double bass off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Menu> Setup> Configuration: Set fronts to small with an 80hz crossover and surround speakers to 100hz, double bass off.
Ah, I see it now, thanks. I will do some listening on that asap...
Just curious, is this considered superior to (I assume) letting the auto calibration function handle this, and why?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
665 Posts
Thanks again guys.
The L+R are toe'd in a bit, probably not quite pointing directly at me, but close.
For the center I could angle it up some. I'll have to find a semi decent-looking way to do that. That speaker does not have any standard ability to mount feet on the bottom. Maybe cut out some wood triangles of appropriate size and wrap them in felt?

I played the same track again last night to make sure I was remembering correctly, and actually it is more like -5 to -3 volume range where the distortion on the beat hits becomes very noticeable. I'll have to listen again to see about the organ notes. I don't think it is anything outside the speakers rattling. Which vents are you talking about exactly? I'm listening to the music in a 2.1 mode so the center channel is not in play there. Also I'm streaming it on Amazon Music mid-tier package (the first one where you have to pay extra as a Prime member, not the top package with the highest quality/highest bitrate files.... I'm definitely not to the point yet where I know if that will matter or not, just throwing it out there).

The key specs on the components:

Receiver:
Channels: 7.2
Rated output power (1kHz, 2ch driven): 110W (8 ohms, 0.9% THD)
Rated output power (20Hz - 20kHz, 2ch driven): 95W (1kHz, 8 ohms, 0.06% THD)
Maximum effective output power (1kHz, 1ch driven) (JEITA): 160W (8 ohms, 10% THD)
Dynamic power per channel (8/6/4/2 ohms): 130/170/195/240W

L+R speakers:
Frequency response: 30 - 25Hz ± 3dB
Port: Dual 1.7" wide-flared, rear-firing
Midrange-to-tweeter crossover: 2.1kHz (12dB/octave slopes)
Top woofer-to-midrange crossover: 350Hz (12dB/octave slopes)
Bottom woofer-to-midrange crossover: 165Hz (customized filter Q and slope)
Rated bandwidth: 30Hz - 25kHz (±3dB)
Nominal impedance 8 ohms
Sensitivity: 87dB (2.83V @ 1 meter full-space, 300-3kHz)
Recommended amplifier power: 20 - 250 watts

I've read that third line in the receiver section is really the important one (power across the entire frequency range?)
So if I'm actually delivering 95W per channel, it would appear in the lower half of the recommended range of the speakers?

Also I've looked and I can't find anywhere that tells me exactly where the sub crossover point is.
Thanks again.
The vents I was talking about are the room air vents. I cut out rubber that is between the vent and drywall to reduce vibration. I played that song from my CD and it still got my vent to vibrate some. I just put the track back on at -3. I took it up to plus 3. What about track 14 "Everloving"? Starts on the left channel with guitar and a subtle hum. Right speaker is a airy sound and then you get a few strings played on the right before the whole song comes to life. There is synthesized bass. the it comes to the double drum beat giving chest punch and then symbol crash. As those dynamic moments end it goes back to the guitar on the left. Or track 17 with a weird background fluttering sound that would sound like distortion if you are not familiar with the song. The echoness of his voice as he speaks the lyrics. Another one that I think is great is track 3 "Porcelain". A really strong bass performance rearranging guts at -2 I am listening to now. Beautiful piano notes and clear vocals. This a track I would think would introduce distortion more than any other on this album. It may very well be just Amazon's stream giving you issues. Maybe they have a bad recording on file? Track 4 just came on with massage chair level of vibrations. ahhh that feels good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,290 Posts
Ah, I see it now, thanks. I will do some listening on that asap...
Just curious, is this considered superior to (I assume) letting the auto calibration function handle this, and why?
by leaving the speakers on large you're telling the AVR you're not using the sub for those channels so they'll play full range which is likely the culprit for the distortion you were hearing. That could also be caused by setting the crossover too low or engaging the double bass feature.

When you set the speakers to small, frequencies below the set crossover will be redirected to the sub. Your system will play more efficiently and likely sound better provided your sub is properly placed and setup. You'll want to make sure the crossover knob on the back of the sub is turned all the way up or set to bypass.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
727 Posts
Thanks again guys.
The L+R are toe'd in a bit, probably not quite pointing directly at me, but close.
For the center I could angle it up some. I'll have to find a semi decent-looking way to do that. That speaker does not have any standard ability to mount feet on the bottom. Maybe cut out some wood triangles of appropriate size and wrap them in felt?

I played the same track again last night to make sure I was remembering correctly, and actually it is more like -5 to -3 volume range where the distortion on the beat hits becomes very noticeable. I'll have to listen again to see about the organ notes. I don't think it is anything outside the speakers rattling. Which vents are you talking about exactly? I'm listening to the music in a 2.1 mode so the center channel is not in play there. Also I'm streaming it on Amazon Music mid-tier package (the first one where you have to pay extra as a Prime member, not the top package with the highest quality/highest bitrate files.... I'm definitely not to the point yet where I know if that will matter or not, just throwing it out there).

The key specs on the components:

Receiver:
Channels: 7.2
Rated output power (1kHz, 2ch driven): 110W (8 ohms, 0.9% THD)
Rated output power (20Hz - 20kHz, 2ch driven): 95W (1kHz, 8 ohms, 0.06% THD)
Maximum effective output power (1kHz, 1ch driven) (JEITA): 160W (8 ohms, 10% THD)
Dynamic power per channel (8/6/4/2 ohms): 130/170/195/240W

L+R speakers:
Frequency response: 30 - 25Hz ± 3dB
Port: Dual 1.7" wide-flared, rear-firing
Midrange-to-tweeter crossover: 2.1kHz (12dB/octave slopes)
Top woofer-to-midrange crossover: 350Hz (12dB/octave slopes)
Bottom woofer-to-midrange crossover: 165Hz (customized filter Q and slope)
Rated bandwidth: 30Hz - 25kHz (±3dB)
Nominal impedance 8 ohms
Sensitivity: 87dB (2.83V @ 1 meter full-space, 300-3kHz)
Recommended amplifier power: 20 - 250 watts

I've read that third line in the receiver section is really the important one (power across the entire frequency range?)
So if I'm actually delivering 95W per channel, it would appear in the lower half of the recommended range of the speakers?

Also I've looked and I can't find anywhere that tells me exactly where the sub crossover point is.
Thanks again.
That power across the entire frequency range reading is the best one if you're going to pick one number to evaluate it's overall performance. But, the Dynamic power per channel (which I'm a little surprised they even list) is a little more relevant to this situation as it represents what the amp can reach for, for brief periods of time, when it needs it. How they came up with and how reliable that number is is another question.
How loud you can play something is a delicate balance between the sensitivity and impedance of the speakers and the ability of the amplifier to provide the required current.
87db isn't super-sensitive but it's not too bad and nominal 8 ohm means the current draw shouldn't overall be too intense. But, impedance changes depending on what the speaker is reproducing, going both higher and lower. How low that goes is not information SVS seems to provide. It is definitely not impossible that the speakers are dipping below 4 ohm on occasion, especially if being run full range.
With a theoretical ability to supply 195W into 4 ohms and even more theoretically 240W into 2 ohms for very short periods of time your receiver should be plenty capable of pushing those speakers in most situations, including action movies (because those movies will put the deep/loud stuff in the .1), even if they are set to full. But, playing almost any kind of two-channel music at -5 to -3 is going to be a challenge even if the cross-over is set at 80. Playing bass heavy music into full range speakers at those levels is realistically beyond the capability of the amplifier section of your receiver.
It trying to do so and failing may be causing the rattling in the speakers that you're hearing.
So, it seems we may have found the answer to your initial query, you might just want to be looking at a dedicated power amp. If you decide you want to run those speaks full range an honest 200 wpc is probably what you want, but even if you're crossing at 80 I think you would benefit from more and better power if you want to listen at those levels.
Morgan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
The vents I was talking about are the room air vents. I cut out rubber that is between the vent and drywall to reduce vibration. I played that song from my CD and it still got my vent to vibrate some. I just put the track back on at -3. I took it up to plus 3. What about track 14 "Everloving"? Starts on the left channel with guitar and a subtle hum. Right speaker is a airy sound and then you get a few strings played on the right before the whole song comes to life. There is synthesized bass. the it comes to the double drum beat giving chest punch and then symbol crash. As those dynamic moments end it goes back to the guitar on the left. Or track 17 with a weird background fluttering sound that would sound like distortion if you are not familiar with the song. The echoness of his voice as he speaks the lyrics. Another one that I think is great is track 3 "Porcelain". A really strong bass performance rearranging guts at -2 I am listening to now. Beautiful piano notes and clear vocals. This a track I would think would introduce distortion more than any other on this album. It may very well be just Amazon's stream giving you issues. Maybe they have a bad recording on file? Track 4 just came on with massage chair level of vibrations. ahhh that feels good.
Ah... Yeah I took the air vents (they are in the ceiling) down to paint them black along with the ceiling, so they have recently been screwed back in pretty tight. Will keep an eye on that but I think they are good for now. Not sure I'm in the power ballpark here to where that will be a problem. :)

"Everloving" was a song I found recommended on Youtube as test source material, so playing that one is how I found the other. No issues with Everloving as far as I can tell up to zero db or slightly above, where it becomes uncomfortable for me. The high piano notes or whatever they are in the background start to get a little lost at those high volumes, I would say. But I don't notice what I would call distortion, like I do on the next song. Track 17, also no issues similar to Everloving. I'll havve to go back and play #3 soon.

The receiver says the sound source is "PCM 48khz". I don't know exactly what that means, but I know it is not the best and should get better if I ponied up for the highest Amazon Music package.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
by leaving the speakers on large you're telling the AVR you're not using the sub for those channels so they'll play full range which is likely the culprit for the distortion you were hearing. That could also be caused by setting the crossover too low or engaging the double bass feature.

When you set the speakers to small, frequencies below the set crossover will be redirected to the sub. Your system will play more efficiently and likely sound better provided your sub is properly placed and setup. You'll want to make sure the crossover knob on the back of the sub is turned all the way up or set to bypass.
Now you've got me learning things.
Up until yesterday, I had just left all the settings on exactly how YPAO set them, which had every speaker set to "large" and the crossover setting greyed out. Also I had the "extra bass" switch set to "on". The sub was always working when I thought it should both in 5.1 movies and in 2 channel music.

After reading this, I went in there and started messing with it and at one point in time noticed that the sub was not being used while playing music. It would come back on when switching to a 5.1 movie.

I see now what you are saying... with the speakers set to "large" and extra bass "off" it is just playing full range to the speakers and not using the sub. But set them to "small", set a crossover point, and then the sub is used all the time, and I'm assuming the lower frequencies are not being routed to the speakers at all.

So the advantage to the later setup would be that the speakers can then utilize all the delivered power to run the higher frequencies and end up with better performance in that assigned range?

While the music still sounds about the same to me when set up this way, this might give me a tick better volume on "Inside" before the distortion happens, but it is pretty close and could just be my imagination too. The "beat" where it is happening, I would say is relatively high for such a beat and is still going to the speakers.

This exercise definitely caused me to learn something though.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top