[russelms]

Ravenna Media Room: 11.2 Monoprice + Atmos

Hello,

08/25: Finally hooked up my Monoprice 2ch 300W amplifier to power my front L+R and shift the denon over to power FH's in both forward and rear ceiling locations. This really added to the kick due to the FH content.
05/07: All done, loving the Theater so much haven't even taken pictures.
04/29: Wall speakers installed, ceiling is done, wiring is complete
04/21: Sheetrock is hung, painted, drop ceiling is half-way done, wiring is run for ceiling lights and speakers, projector was tested on wall
03/31: The framing is done, 110v wiring run, next is speaker wire (not run with 110), then sheetrock
03/14: Updated diagram to include Dolby Atmos angles based on the 7.2.4 guidelines.
03/09: Added diagram of speaker configuration, and room obstacles.

Costs:
AVR: Denon 4520CI from Adorama $961
Amp: Monoprice 2x150wpc PID#11497 (Rebadged OSD AMP300) $278 (http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=109&cp_id=10918&cs_id=1091806&p_id=11497&seq=1&format=2)
Speakers: Ceilings, Walls, Subs, and wire $940
Speaker Cabling/Connectors: Monoprice 12ga, bananna plugs, .etc $165
Projector: Sony VPL-HW40ES from AVSForum member $1500
Contractor Labor: $1200 to finish room, HVAC, electrical, ...
Construction Materials: ~$1900
Screen: SilverTicket 120" 16:9 Acoustically Transparent Fixed-Frame $215

Grand Total: $7159

The media room located in the basement of my Ryan Homes built Ravenna model. The adjoining basement is already finished.

I've scanned many peoples basement build threads and am very impressed with the discussions that take place in the threads. Any feedback on any aspect of this project would be appreciated.

The rough dimensions to start are 15'x15' unfinished with a 3'x4' closet space. The room is not clear of obstacles as it includes the main electrical panel, the main drain piping in the closet, and a HVAC duct that drops the ceiling 1ft for a portion of the room.

This is being done as as cost-efficient as I can manage hence the heavy Monoprice component. I've already purchased the speakers because they will be framed around during the finishing work later this month.

Speakers:

The fronts (L, C, R) will all be 8" 3-Way in-wall Monoprice PID#6816
The sides and surrounds will also be the 8" 3-Way in-wall Monoprice PID#6816
The elevation/height channels will be 4 8" angled in-ceiling Monoprice PID#4929
Two subwoofers both 12" 250W Monoprice PID#12229

Amplifers:

2-channel (150w/chan) Monoprice
Denon 4520CI 9.2 150wpc

Projector:
Sony VPL-HW40ES (used (40 hrs) bought via AVS Classifieds $1500)

Screen:
SilverTicket 120" 16:9 Acoustically Transparent Fixed-Frame $215

Thanks,

Mike

 

[willmo]

Do you have a layout plan for the equipment? Will you be performing any soundproofing?

 

[russelms]

I updated my diagram to be based in visio with accurate dimensions. I also made the observation that I really only have one orientation since the AV closet will take away one of the side channels.

Sound proofing would be on the wall with the double door which is 2x4 frame already with 1/2in sheetrock, and the ceiling which is 2x8 joists. Exactly what I fill the cavities with is TBD, need to do more reading on the thread dedicated to sound proofing.

Any opinions on speaker place (they are the small white boxes on the perimeter wall and circles in the ceiling) would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[BIGmouthinDC]

Read some of the articles at Soundproofingcompany.com based on your comment that you would do it on the one wall is a common beginners misconception. You need to totally surround the sound to keep it from other parts of the house.

 

[Tedd]

I see a room with some pretty nice potential. Ever consider relocating that ductwork by introducing an
S curve and using soffits to hide the transition?


The electrical panel could be built into the room, and hidden in a column, with symmetrical column on
the opposite side wall.


Now bring the seating off the back wall 3' and raise the surround speakers, so they are further from seated ears.


You could build a simple back box (trough) for screen spotlights. And I like the idea of a single door with gaskets.
Even if you don't care about sound proofing, you should care about having a low noise floor in the room.


How tall is the space?

 

[russelms]

I see a room with some pretty nice potential. Ever consider relocating that ductwork by introducing an
S curve and using soffits to hide the transition?


The electrical panel could be built into the room, and hidden in a column, with symmetrical column on
the opposite side wall.


Now bring the seating off the back wall 3' and raise the surround speakers, so they are further from seated ears.


You could build a simple back box (trough) for screen spotlights. And I like the idea of a single door with gaskets.
Even if you don't care about sound proofing, you should care about having a low noise floor in the room.


How tall is the space?

Thanks for the input.

Reading up on the sound proofing. Based on my timeline and limited dollars I expect the best I can do is create an air-gap plus rigid or soft insulation in both the wall's and ceiling, this appears to only be a mediocre solution.

With regards to the HVAC I am going to be leaving it as is since there are three vertical launches from that duct that go up to the floor above, and a few other perpendicular runs.

I've updated the visio to have the couch pulled almost 3 feet off the back wall, I set the separation to be 3 feet to the listeners ears. Also added is a side view, I arbritrarily chose speakers to be 4ft off the ground which would be close to ear level.

I've added the projector hung at the rear with ~13' throw distance. Based on the throw distance using the projectorcentral calculator I can hit a 110" screen within the seating range of 11-17'.

 

[BIGmouthinDC]

Check the vibration of the floor above, since your projector is at the rear of the room if there is lots of foot traffic mounting it on a wall shelf may eliminate image shake.

 

[russelms]

Great point about the ledge, added to my list of framing supports.

Can anyone point me to speaker spacing calculators that help fine tune the separations and heights? I read an article on crutchfield specific to in-walls and it suggested that:
1. The sides be at standing ear level except if you run an atmos setup. What happens when most content isn't atmos?
2. The front left/right be limited to 10 feet maximum separation to maintain a stereo effect.
3. My ceiling speakers have a built-in 15 degree angle, should I factor this into my atmos ceiling angle plan?

 

[russelms]

Great point about the ledge, added to my list of framing supports.

Can anyone point me to speaker spacing calculators that help fine tune the separations and heights? I read an article on crutchfield specific to in-walls and it suggested that:
1. The sides be at standing ear level except if you run an atmos setup. What happens when most content isn't atmos?
2. The front left/right be limited to 10 feet maximum separation to maintain a stereo effect.
3. My ceiling speakers have a built-in 15 degree angle, should I factor this into my atmos ceiling angle plan?

Bump, still looking for help on how high surround speakers should be when sitting position is physically close to the speakers.

 

[willmo]

Use as your starting point: http://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/surround-sound-speaker-setup/index.html

 

[russelms]

Thanks. I used the Dolby Atmos installation guide for the 7.1.4 configuration, specifically the angles from center for each speaker placement.

Updates:
* All framing and finishing materials were ordered. Nothing atypical since my contractor likes Home Depot. 1/2" sheetrock, corning R13 and R19 insulation for walls and ceiling
* My drop ceiling will be Armstrong 1728ABL (Black fine fissured) with black griding. The molded panels from ceilume and armstrong were just to expensive (>$600) for this small room.
* I got lucky and found a pair of returned (new) solid 34.5" x 80" doors to increase the sound insulation of the room with the doors closed

I am frustrated that DTS:X hasn't been released with speaker placement examples. My frame starts this friday and I bet by weekend he will have all the speaker positions frame per my drawings.

I believe I've hit all the angles correctly with the exception of the rear overhead speaker butting up against my rear wall preventing the correct angle.

Can anyone comment on my room layout due to the HVAC duct running across the front sound stage my seating and rears (wall and ceiling) are all much closer than my LCR speakers. Will Audyssey magically correct for the range deltas?

Is 3.5 ft the typical ear-level seating height? I chose it because the ceiling speakers are supposed to be ~2x as high as the ear-level speakers.

 

[jimim]

Thanks. I used the Dolby Atmos installation guide for the 7.1.4 configuration, specifically the angles from center for each speaker placement.

Updates:
* All framing and finishing materials were ordered. Nothing atypical since my contractor likes Home Depot. 1/2" sheetrock, corning R13 and R19 insulation for walls and ceiling
* My drop ceiling will be Armstrong 1728ABL (Black fine fissured) with black griding. The molded panels from ceilume and armstrong were just to expensive (>$600) for this small room.
* I got lucky and found a pair of returned (new) solid 34.5" x 80" doors to increase the sound insulation of the room with the doors closed

I am frustrated that DTS:X hasn't been released with speaker placement examples. My frame starts this friday and I bet by weekend he will have all the speaker positions frame per my drawings.

I believe I've hit all the angles correctly with the exception of the rear overhead speaker butting up against my rear wall preventing the correct angle.

Can anyone comment on my room layout due to the HVAC duct running across the front sound stage my seating and rears (wall and ceiling) are all much closer than my LCR speakers. Will Audyssey magically correct for the range deltas?

Is 3.5 ft the typical ear-level seating height? I chose it because the ceiling speakers are supposed to be ~2x as high as the ear-level speakers.

Speaker height for atmos vs bed audio is the surrounds should be no higher than 1.25 tweeter height of lcr setup and no higher than half the ceiling height to get proper separation. Those are just guidelines. In the real world u want as much separation between ur bed audio and the atmos speakers.

In my situation I made sure my surrounds and rear did not go greater than 1.25 the ear height. For all seats. But I tried to keep them as high as possible to get. Proper sound field without them being too close to the atmos height speakers. It's hardcwhen cieling height is limited.

Jim

 

[russelms]

Any suggestion on where to place, or use for that matter, my extra 8" 3-way in-wall speaker? I already have a 7.2.4 array wiring in place.

 

[russelms]

I am going to end up using my upstairs Denon 4520 in the media room to wait out the DTS:X roll-out phase. This decision won't help my 4 overheard ceiling speakers so I need some advice.

In the attached diagram I moved the rear (red) pair forward to be above the Left/Right channels to be considered front height channels. Next I would call the green pair the front wide channels.

Will the sound produced into those speakers work if they are ceiling based?

 

[pack66]

OP,

How do you like your Monoprice InWalls (6816s?)? Still satisfied with them? How do they compare to floor standers and how is the sound stage?

thanks!

 

[russelms]

Loving the in-walls so far I cannot detect any distortion with my amplifier setup. They lack any substantial bass so the front subs pickup that end of the spectrum. I have been pleasantly surprised by my ceiling speakers actually producing some LFE content.

With regards to my room it just wasn't big enough to give good enough separation between speakers particularly the rear and sides, and i couldn't install front-wides due to the door. So overall surround sound content flying around, overheard, or front to back is not as dramatic as I had hoped. Maybe object based audio will eventually compensate for this but that won't be in my future for many years.

 

[tsmith22]

How do you like the monoprice subs? In process of getting my equipment together for my first media room and considering these as well.

 

[russelms]

The price vs. power ratio was just to good to pass up hence my almost exclusive buy from Monoprice. I can't recall but I believe I paid $220/sub.

The subs are powerful but I am having trouble with the more delicate bass sounds. What I am trying to say is that they work well when bombs go off but I don't feel like they add enough emphasis to stomping feet, slamming door kind of sounds.

Now I will caveat this with my complete lack of experience tuning subs. I have run my AVR's MultiEQ and SubEQ processes for the two sub configuration and I have set the LFE cross-over to be 150 Hz in a hope to send everything 150 Hz and below to the subs in addition to all of the in-walls speakers receiving 80 Hz and above.

I often find myself adding ~3 dB back to the sub's after SubEQ sets their respective levels.

 

[Ramstadtech]

If you have configured your speakers to small and 80Hz everything below 80Hz is given to the subwoofer together with the LFE content. If you put your LFE filter to 150Hz, you protect your subwoofer in case the LFE channel contains higher frequencies than that.

Have you made backboxes for your 6816s?

 

[russelms]

If you have configured your speakers to small and 80Hz everything below 80Hz is given to the subwoofer together with the LFE content. If you put your LFE filter to 150Hz, you protect your subwoofer in case the LFE channel contains higher frequencies than that.

Have you made backboxes for your 6816s?

No back boxes for any of the speakers, the in-walls are tightly packed between studs and the in-ceiling are reasonably tight few inches from sub-floor so a backer box would be tight squeeze.