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Discussion Starter #1
I came here months ago posting my dissatisfaction with the way my Panasonic plasma displayed my Nintendo Wii. I think a big problem was that I was coming from a high def CRT, on which the Wii looks amazing. I love my 50" Panasonic plasma, but I do a LOT of old school gaming (Saturn, SNES, etc) and wanted to have those look as good as possible. Many people here recommended the DVDO Edge because I was on a budget.


I decided to wait because there was a sale on this very forum that I just missed; and the DVDO Edge was back up to its retail price (just my luck). I've decided now I'm ready to buy, with the best price I found being at thenerds.net at $540 shipped for the unit. Kinda stinks because Amazon had it for $450 shipped like a month ago and I missed out yet again.


Anyway, after all this time, I wanted to make sure the DVDO Edge was the best for what I wanted. I just want a really good scaler for non HD stuff. The idea of only needing one HDMI plug to my television is definitely a nice perk, but it's just that; a perk.


I wanted to make sure there weren't any newer scalers in the price range of the EDGE (or even cheaper) that are of similar or better quality. Hell, by now, I figured there might even be a receiver that's around the same price that does as good (if not better) job than the edge. If that's the case, I'll go that route too.


This post is also to make sure there isn't a better price ($540) or better place to buy the EDGE than what I found. And if there's a better scaler/receiver for the same or lower price, I'd really like to know that too. Thanks for reading, everyone.
 

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The Edge is a terrific scaler for everything 480i and up (e.g. your Wii), but it has major flaws when dealing with 240p material (Saturn, SNES etc). The problem mainly consists of serious ringing (halos) on the vertical axis. Follow the link in my signature and see the screenshots yourself.
 

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I would just say not to expect a miracle. The sources you are concerned with are not all that great to begin with, so the Edge will only do so much (really any VP).
 

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The sources you are concerned with are not all that great to begin with

as a matter of fact it doesn't get any better. The signals from any videogame systems are 100% artefact free, completely digitally rendered and output through RGBs or component (plenty of quality for 15khz signals). While VPs are always expected to clean up analogue TV signals and work real wonders in removing unwanted artefacts, the whole purpose of a scaler for older videogame systems to upscale an already progressive signal WITHOUT ADDING any artefacts. Unfortunately it's the Edge scaling engine which fails in this matter - not because it's bad, but simply because it's targeted at artefact-ridden video material.
 

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Though I agree that they are "pure" signals, large amounts of upconversion are not that simple to do while making a good end result.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I get that my SNES games aren't going to look any better than they do now...they already look pretty damn good. I'm just looking to improve the look of the more 3-d game systems like the Wii, PS2, etc.
 

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Well first, what is it about your CRT that looked better than your new plasma (in regards to these games)? Let's make sure a VP is going to do what you want...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
In regards to the Wii, on my high def CRT, Zelda looked amazing for example. The 3-d really looked like 3-d polygons like you'd see on a PC monitor. I of course understand this is because CRTs can display many resolutions, and plasmas/LCD have one set native resolution.


I really just want my Wii and PS2 games to look better. I do SNES through emulation so that doesn't matter, and I guess the only issue that Fudoh mentioned would be with the Saturn, but I can have that plugged into the S-Video port of my plasma.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaddyLongLegs /forum/post/16888315


In regards to the Wii, on my high def CRT, Zelda looked amazing for example. The 3-d really looked like 3-d polygons like you'd see on a PC monitor. I of course understand this is because CRTs can display many resolutions, and plasmas/LCD have one set native resolution.


I really just want my Wii and PS2 games to look better. I do SNES through emulation so that doesn't matter, and I guess the only issue that Fudoh mentioned would be with the Saturn, but I can have that plugged into the S-Video port of my plasma.

As an alternate (and only because you mentioned it) you might want to (re)investigate Saturn emulation. I wasn't aware of how far it had come until a recent thread on NeoGAF. You would achieve better visual results by rendering in a higher resolution (for polygon based games) than using a VP on a hardware Saturn. Fudoh's opinion on retro-gaming is hard to second guess. He has a good eye and countless hours of testing to his name. His website should give you a good idea of what to expect from a VP.


PS the Wii has also been emulated to unbelievable results. I just don't have the hardware to run it! The PS2 is a lot further behind.


I used to emulate a number of systems, but have now chosen to go the RGB --> VP route; I'm a glutton for punishment.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Oh I already decided I'd be doing PS1 emulation, again because of the increased resolution; plus I love not switching discs. I wasn't aware Saturn emulation would ever, ever be an option. Wii emulation I don't think I'd bother with because I don't want to buy some beefy PC just for that.


The one thing that confuses me with the DVDO EDGE is to why anyone would run already 1080p signals to it. Like I have an HTPC for example. You really can't clean up an image like that; it's already running at 1080p. Why would anyone run it through the DVDO EDGE?
 

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Why would anyone run it through the DVDO EDGE?

because the Edge has a nice combination of Edge Enhancement and Detail Enhancement features which can boost the image's sharpness considerably. You can also do a 1080p60 to 1080p24 conversion in the Edge which saves you the trouble of switching between the two output formats on your PC when playing different media formats.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaddyLongLegs /forum/post/16889601


Why would anyone run it through the DVDO EDGE?

Per input calibration. My HD-DVD player and PS3 both output 1080, but with differing black levels, colour spaces etc etc.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaddyLongLegs /forum/post/16889601


Oh I already decided I'd be doing PS1 emulation, again because of the increased resolution; plus I love not switching discs. I wasn't aware Saturn emulation would ever, ever be an option. Wii emulation I don't think I'd bother with because I don't want to buy some beefy PC just for that.


The one thing that confuses me with the DVDO EDGE is to why anyone would run already 1080p signals to it. Like I have an HTPC for example. You really can't clean up an image like that; it's already running at 1080p. Why would anyone run it through the DVDO EDGE?

As well as it adds switching ability...making hookup easier.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaddyLongLegs /forum/post/16888315


In regards to the Wii, on my high def CRT, Zelda looked amazing for example. The 3-d really looked like 3-d polygons like you'd see on a PC monitor. I of course understand this is because CRTs can display many resolutions, and plasmas/LCD have one set native resolution.

How many inches was your CRT?


One of the biggest issues with the standard definition consoles like PS2 and Wii, who render 3D at 480i/p, is that when they're blown up to a large display, especially one that has 1080 lines of resolution, the detail and aliasing becomes quite apparent.


Unless hardware comes out which will re-render the 3D in a higher resolution after the PS2/Wii renders it, which is pretty much impossible, the games aren't going to look that great on a big screen whatsoever.


You really only have two options when playing the PS2 or Wii on a big screen that has a decent scaler.


1) Sit further away from the screen.

2) Stop playing low resolution 3D games on a big screen and stick to smaller screens.


I've seen a PS2 game look semi-decent on a big screen TV before, but it was a CRT rear projection TV which had little interlacing "scanlines" which actually, somehow, made the picture look alright. That's probably as good as it gets with big screen PS2/Wii gaming!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I thought the whole point of processors like the DVDO Edge was to make stuff that didn't look to hot when blown up look better?


Isn't this the reason standard-def DVDs look really good on my PS3 but standard def DVDs on my older progressive scan DVD player look pretty bad? Same exact image being fed; clearly the image can be cleaned up. That's really what I want from my Wii and PS2.


I sort of mis-spoke when I mentioned SNES and stuff because I know those are 2-d games and are very flat in the graphics department; it's going to be a razor sharp yet blocky experience no matter what, and that's fine. I really just want my PS2 and Wii games to look as good on my TV as the PS3 makes normally crappy standard-def stuff look really good. I'm not expecting miracles, but it's a shame when I have my beautiful 1080p brand new Panasonic plasma being used for the Wii 95% of the time and it looks underwhelming (again, I know the Wii is not HD, I would just like a nice improvement which is what I thought the DVDO Edge was for).
 

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There are quite sophisticated processing algorithms available on an HTPC via Avisynth, which are designed to process captured analogue video. Whilst the horsepower required to use them can be high for SD material, if you are inputting less than SD resolution, it might be acceptable.


The problem is that you would have to input analogue from the game machine output; and whilst there are quite cheap video grabber cards, you might have to settle for s-video.


It may not be possible to retain the original sharpness of the source when scaling up to HD resolutions, but remarkable things can be done with supersampling and sharpness enhancement. Some effort was put into scaling Monsters Inc DVD up to HD resolution via Avisynth, before the Bluray was conceived, as an example IIRC.


Might be an option compared to game emulation on an HTPC and if you already have a suitable HTPC, cheaper and maybe more effective than an EDGE.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Wow, thanks Ian. I never even thought of that. I do in fact have a decent HTPC (3.6ghz dual core 5600 AMD 64). I didn't even think about that option...


I already have the Hauppauge 1212 HD PVR hooked up to it; would that be suitable? It has component AND s-video inputs, then my HTPC outputs via HDMI, so that would be great! Please let me know what you think. Thank you!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Not meaning to bump, but since this thread is now in a completely different direction, where should I ask about using my HTPC as a scaler instead of DVDO Edge? (I'd like to know instructions, what to do, if my Happauge HD PVR would work with it, etc.)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaddyLongLegs /forum/post/16914894


Not meaning to bump, but since this thread is now in a completely different direction, where should I ask about using my HTPC as a scaler instead of DVDO Edge? (I'd like to know instructions, what to do, if my Happauge HD PVR would work with it, etc.)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say.... here ?


Good form on starting a new thread with the change in direction.
 
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