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Discussion Starter #1
Looking for 2 subs. One for Living Room, one for Media Room.


Living Room: Today just got 65" Samsung TV 3D TV hung above my FirePlace.


Living Room Speakers: Just ordered Emp Tek Speakers. 2 Bookshelves for up high in alcoves L&R. Rear surrounds, their Large Center Channel. Sub connection and power is located back left CORNER of room. Behind left shoulder if sitting on couch.


Receivers I just bought: 2 AVR-X2000


Media Room Speakers: Right NOW have 7.1 Polk TC85i In Wall speakers. Using all 7 for all speakers, BUT replacing FRONT 3 Speakers with more EMP TEK's. Another Large Center below screen in center on stand. 2 of their Big Towers on each side of the screen.


Media Room Dimensions: 20 X 17 with a ceiling moubted Mitsibishi HC1500HC until I upgrade to the Epson.


What sub for each room? Looking at the top 3-4 brands. HSU, SVS, OutLaw, Rhythmik.


Pictures of Living Room:










SUB going in back left corner of room. Where picture and thin table are.










Media Room Pictures:












Thanks Guys!! My speakers come next week and I'm ready to get some subs.
 

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You could buy a a PC Ultra/PB Ultra 13 and SB Ultra 13, try em both, and decide which to keep.
 

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The Hsu VTF-3 MK4 has very strong performance. It's currently on sale for $669. The design is similar to Outlaw's LFM-1 EX, but it has better porting that allows it to go a couple of Hz lower in the bottom end and around 8 dB higher max SPL across the board:


CEA 2010 One Port Open Comparison:


. . . . . . . . . . . . HSU . . . . . . . . Outlaw

. . . . . . . . . . . . VTF-3 MK4 . . LMF-1 EX


Frequency (Hz) Maximum SPL Maximum SPL

16 . . . . . . . . . . 108.4 . . . . . 97.5

20 . . . . . . . . . . 110.2 . . . . 102.1

25 . . . . . . . . . . 110.4 . . . . 104.7

31.5 . . . . . . . . . 114.3 . . . . 107.2

40 . . . . . . . . . . 118.2 . . . . 110.5

50 . . . . . . . . . . 120.3 . . . . 112.4

63 . . . . . . . . . . 121.0 . . . . 113.3

80 . . . . . . . . . . 121.1 . . . . 113.3


 

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What is the source of the CEA-2010 measurements for the HSU-MK4?
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrich3  /t/1526843/reasy-to-buy-sub-now-please-help#post_24595150


The Hsu VTF-3 MK4 has very strong performance. It's currently on sale for $669. The design is similar to Outlaw's LFM-1 EX, but it has better porting that allows it to go a couple of Hz lower in the bottom end and around 8 dB higher max SPL across the board:


CEA 2010 One Port Open Comparison:


. . . . . . . . . . . . HSU . . . . . . . . Outlaw

. . . . . . . . . . . . VTF-3 MK4 . . LMF-1 EX


Frequency (Hz) Maximum SPL Maximum SPL

16 . . . . . . . . . . 108.4 . . . . . 97.5

20 . . . . . . . . . . 110.2 . . . . 102.1

25 . . . . . . . . . . 110.4 . . . . 104.7

31.5 . . . . . . . . . 114.3 . . . . 107.2

40 . . . . . . . . . . 118.2 . . . . 110.5

50 . . . . . . . . . . 120.3 . . . . 112.4

63 . . . . . . . . . . 121.0 . . . . 113.3

80 . . . . . . . . . . 121.1 . . . . 113.3
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda  /t/1526843/reasy-to-buy-sub-now-please-help/0_50#post_24595171


What is the source of the CEA-2010 measurements for the HSU-MK4?

Hsu's website.
 

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The numbers on the HSU's webpage seem to be way off from the measurements at databass for the VTF-15H. If I am not missing something, I would take the measurements for the VTF-3 MK4 with a grain of salt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrich3  /t/1526843/reasy-to-buy-sub-now-please-help#post_24595178


Hsu's website.
 

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It's always better to have results from an independent testing org like data-bass, but Hsu's measurements are the only source I've seen for this model. I believe that Hsu's published specs for their other subs have closely aligned with independent testing in the past, so hopefully these are accurate as well. If so, they're impressive...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrich3  /t/1526843/reasy-to-buy-sub-now-please-help/0_50#post_24595150


The Hsu VTF-3 MK4 has very strong performance. It's currently on sale for $669. The design is similar to Outlaw's LFM-1 EX, but it has better porting that allows it to go a couple of Hz lower in the bottom end and around 8 dB higher max SPL across the board:


CEA 2010 One Port Open Comparison:


. . . . . . . . . . . . HSU . . . . . . . . Outlaw

. . . . . . . . . . . . VTF-3 MK4 . . LMF-1 EX


Frequency (Hz) Maximum SPL Maximum SPL

16 . . . . . . . . . . 108.4 . . . . . 97.5

20 . . . . . . . . . . 110.2 . . . . 102.1

25 . . . . . . . . . . 110.4 . . . . 104.7

31.5 . . . . . . . . . 114.3 . . . . 107.2

40 . . . . . . . . . . 118.2 . . . . 110.5

50 . . . . . . . . . . 120.3 . . . . 112.4

63 . . . . . . . . . . 121.0 . . . . 113.3

80 . . . . . . . . . . 121.1 . . . . 113.3

Incorrect. HSU is using 1m peak numbers, so you'd have to subtract them by 9dB to compare to data-bass (or add 9dB to data-bass numbers).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by its phillip  /t/1526843/reasy-to-buy-sub-now-please-help#post_24595602


Incorrect. HSU is using 1m peak numbers, so you'd have to subtract them by 9dB to compare to data-bass (or add 9dB to data-bass numbers).

+1


Aside from that logic would tell me that there is no way a 8db difference could be accurate being both subs are utilizing a similar driver, enclosure volume, power, and tuning. That would be like saying it takes 3 EX's to equal 1 VTF-3. The VTF-3 does infact have larger ports to help with port compression in 1 port mode and would have slightly more output around the tune.


For that size room I would be looking at a JTR Captivator 2400. You could save a significamt amount by purchasing the passive model and powering it with a pro amp such as the Behringer Inuke 3000dsp.(2000.00)


Next lower priced option would be a Rythmik FV15HP or SVS PC13 Ultra.(15-1600.00)


Next lower price point would be a HSU VTF-15.(1000-1100.00)


Since a budget was never mentioned it is going to be hard to pinpoint an exact solution but the above will point you in the right direction.
 

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Here is the correctly scaled numbers. HSU numbers when scaled to 2m rms are a spot on with data-bass.com when comparing the VTF-15, so it is a safe bet we can make a good comparison here.


VTF-3.4 2 port mode 2m RMS--> 20-31hz = 106.1db, 40-63hz = 112.2db


1port mode 2m RMS--> 20-31hz = 102.6db, 40-63hz = 110.8db (16hz--> 99.4db)


LFM-1 EX 2 port mode 2m RMS--> 20-31hz = 106.3db, 40-63hz = 113.26db


1port mode 2m RMS--> 20-31hz = 104.7db, 40-63hz = 112db (16hz--> 97.5db)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81  /t/1526843/reasy-to-buy-sub-now-please-help#post_24595845


Here is the correctly scaled numbers. HSU numbers when scaled to 2m rms are a spot on with data-bass.com when comparing the VTF-15, so it is a safe bet we can make a good comparison here.


VTF-3.4 2 port mode 2m RMS--> 20-31hz = 106.1db, 40-63hz = 112.2db


1port mode 2m RMS--> 20-31hz = 102.6db, 40-63hz = 110.8db (16hz--> 99.4db)


LFM-1 EX 2 port mode 2m RMS--> 20-31hz = 106.3db, 40-63hz = 113.26db


1port mode 2m RMS--> 20-31hz = 104.7db, 40-63hz = 112db (16hz--> 97.5db)

I would still be hesitant to use these numbers in such a close comparison. As a rough comparison, maybe, but as I have argued in the past, CEA tests are not precise enough for comparison out to single decibels, especially for tests done by different people.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by its phillip  /t/1526843/reasy-to-buy-sub-now-please-help/0_50#post_24595602


Incorrect. HSU is using 1m peak numbers, so you'd have to subtract them by 9dB to compare to data-bass (or add 9dB to data-bass numbers).

Thanks for the explanation.


Hsu didn't list the measurement distance with their chart. I had assumed that all CEA 2010 measurements would be taken at the same distance so that anyone's data could be easily compared to anyone else's without requiring additional test environment info. What good is a "standard" if results that adhere to it can't be compared?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ  /t/1526843/reasy-to-buy-sub-now-please-help#post_24596290


I would still be hesitant to use these numbers in such a close comparison. As a rough comparison, maybe, but as I have argued in the past, CEA tests are not precise enough for comparison out to single decibels, especially for tests done by different people.

The point was there is not a 8db difference between the 2 subs. Aside from that the VTF-15 numbers are spot on between HSU and Ricci, I do not see why they would not be close for the VTF-3.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hello guys. Sorry for the delayed reply. As far as budget, I don't want to spend $2.000 on a sub for the living room. I want a good value for what I get. However, for my media room, I'd be willing to spend more money.


Media Room Speakers: Currently have 7 Polk RC85i in wall speakers, BUT Just Ordered 3 EMP TEK speakers to replace my Front 3 Media Room In Wall speakers. Got 2 of their Largest Towers for each side if the screen, and their largest Center Channel for below the center if the screen.




For the living room, which of course is open and larger than my 20 x 17 media Room, I plan to get a cheaper priced Sub than my Mesia Room Why? Because the living room is NOT my Main Movie Room.


I'll likely watch some movies in that room NOW, since I added my new Samaung 65" 3D TV yesterday. But the Sub for that room is just to add bass to my speakers I'm adding. I WANT a good Sub! But that HSU for $669 would likely be fine. I want solid bass in living room, but don't need to rumble the whole house.


I just purchased 2 Denon AVR-X2000 Receivers so you know what' will be running my sub.


Living Room 5.1 Speakers Ordered: EMP TEK L&R Bookshelves up in Alcoves, EMP's largest Center on mantle below TV, EMP's small surround sound for rears.


Sub will be placed in back LEFT Corner of living room. Of sitting in couch, behind left shoulder. That's where power and pre wires sub cable is located.


I think I am between HSU, SVS, and Ryyhmik. Maybe in that order.



I want my media room to rock. I'm Also upgrading my5 year old 720P Mitsubishi HC1500 projector to an Epson 6030UB.


I like tight bass. Not flubby sounding.


Which sub would you guys get for EACH Room???


Maybe I get the same subs for each room?


At $669 for the HSU, is it smart tigger 2 of these for media room? Or, as an example, would it be better to get 1 SVS or Rythmik BIG Single Sub?


Last Question: Ported or Non Ported for Living Room & Media Room. IF it matters???



Thanks guys. Sorry for jumping all over. Just wanted to give you guys ALL the info to help me.


Thanks!!!


The Bandit...........
 

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I would go for two subs. This would do more for an even bass sound across all listening positions. One sub will get you more output, but two can end up sounding better and gain you a more neutral response so therefore greater accuracy. I would get an SPL meter to help determine the best placements for the sub, if you have freedom of placement. I would try to get ported subs if you have the space for them. These are all large subs.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Look at my pictures of my media room. You can see where my Subs is now and where my receiver is.


I don't think in my media room I need not have room for 2 HUGE subs.


Maybe I get 2 PB2000's or 2 HSU MK4?


What does an SPL Meter so and HOW does it determine where to place the sub?


If I get an OUTLAW it's wireless. I can put it anywhere and 2 is cheap. But so are the HSU's $669 and the PB2000
 

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Discussion Starter #17
What's a better choice?


SB2000 $699 or PB2000 $799


VS.


HSU VTF3 MK4 $669 ??????


Also looking at:


HSU VTF 15H $879 (looks pretty)


SVS PB 12 Plus $1,399


SVS PB 13 Ultra $1,999 maybe too much $$$ unless this SUB is way way way better than another sub and worth double the price of some of my other possible choices.



Rythmik FV15HP $1,339


This is hard!!!



Someone help. LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Look at my pictures of my media room. You can see where my Subs is now and where my receiver is.


I don't think in my media room I need not have room for 2 HUGE subs.


Maybe I get 2 PB2000's or 2 HSU MK4?


What does an SPL Meter so and HOW does it determine where to place the sub?


If I get an OUTLAW it's wireless. I can put it anywhere and 2 is cheap. But so are the HSU's $669 and the PB2000
 

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SB2000 won't be sufficient in that room. I have a SVS 12+ Sealed box, and the 13" Ultra sealed box is definietly worth triple the price. Even in a room half the size, I didn't get that room shaking bass with the 12".


A dB meter is useful for manal speaker levels, but if you have a av amplifier with auto setup it does it for you.
 

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The VTF3 and PB2000 are going to be very close in performance. The VTF15h and PB12 Plus will be close in performance. The Rythmik FV15HP and PB13 Ultra are close in performance as well. The Outlaw is good, but you can buy wireless adapters for subs, so don't get hung up on that sub for the Outlaw wireless kit. Here is a ki t which might work well and isn't too expensive. I think the VTF3 and PB2000 may be a tad better then the Outlaw sub. By the way, Hsu does not include shipping in its list price, and shipping is $99 for the VTF3, so the real price is $768 shipped. The Outlaw does not include shipping in the price as well, and shipping is something like $80 I believe. Both Hsu and SVS offer a discount for duals.


An SPL meter measures how loud sound is. For subs, you would run different tones when the sub is in a certain place and see how evenly the sub measures. You can make it easy by just hooking it up to a computer running Room Equalization Wizard , if that computer has a decent sound interface. There is a bit more too it than that. Any of these companies offer very good post purchase support, they cab help you optimize your placement.
 
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