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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've had a slew of yamaha/marantz/onkyo receivers, currently a TX-SR705. I'm not thrilled with this unit, i'm powering JBL ND310 mains, JBL S-center, Polk R10 surrounds and a Cadence CSX-15 for sub, PDP-5080HD Kuro display and i'm in a 25x15x14' open concept living area.


I've destroyed a few tweeters in the mains as I often listen to music in 2CH mode near or just above "0db" which doesn't have enough output, I also watch a lot of bluray movies L-PCM over the PS3.


It is audyssey calibrated with all speakers crossed over @80hz and sub @120hz per the audyssey setup guide.


I find that even to get a MODERATE volume level I need to be -12db or louder and the amp runs out of juice before i'm satisified.


Does a receiver exist for not $1200+ that will provide the power I want... don't recommend an outboard amp, that's the absolute last thing I want to do as i'm not really happy with the audio mode switching delays and processing of the 705 in the first place.


I'd like a receiver that has some more output, not ridiculously more... but some and of course warmer processing, something that excels in 2CH output as I listen to music most frequently.
 

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You are probably not going to find a receiver that's capable of the kind of output that you are looking for. My best bet would be to use a Yamaha as the processor running into an Emotiva 5 channel amp. You have got Krell/Bryston taste with a Busch budget.


I switched over from a 5.1 setup to a 2.0 setup with topflight equipment to get what I wanted with 2 channel listening and have not one single regret. My friends concur that this system completely embarasses most 5.1 systems for music and movies, though YMMV.


BTW I use Krell and Dynaudio these days.
 

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You can buy a Yamaha RX-V665 on sale from multiple authorized on-line Yamaha dealers, that can do 7.1 and any upscaling/processing/EQ-dialing/etc., etc. that you could ever possibly want to do, for $350-$390. Add to it a pre-loved Emotiva XPA-3 for somewhere between $450-$500 shipped to your door.


So, for between $800-$900 you'll have the guts for your system that will shake the paint off your walls. If someone can give an example of better BANG for the buck, I'd love to hear it cause I surely can't think of any.


Trust me, I know first hand.
 

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I doubt you'll get what you are looking for with just a HT receiver upgrade. After all is said and done, you'll probably only be happy building up a dedicated 2-channel system anyway judging from how you described the way you like to listen to music.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfrenzy /forum/post/18120080


I've had a slew of yamaha/marantz/onkyo receivers, currently a TX-SR705. I'm not thrilled with this unit, i'm powering JBL ND310 mains, JBL S-center, Polk R10 surrounds and a Cadence CSX-15 for sub, PDP-5080HD Kuro display and i'm in a 25x15x14' open concept living area.


I've destroyed a few tweeters in the mains as I often listen to music in 2CH mode near or just above "0db" which doesn't have enough output, I also watch a lot of bluray movies L-PCM over the PS3.


It is audyssey calibrated with all speakers crossed over @80hz and sub @120hz per the audyssey setup guide.


I find that even to get a MODERATE volume level I need to be -12db or louder and the amp runs out of juice before i'm satisified.


Does a receiver exist for not $1200+ that will provide the power I want... don't recommend an outboard amp, that's the absolute last thing I want to do as i'm not really happy with the audio mode switching delays and processing of the 705 in the first place.


I'd like a receiver that has some more output, not ridiculously more... but some and of course warmer processing, something that excels in 2CH output as I listen to music most frequently.

Try a Pioneer Elite SC25 (I just bought it under 1K at B. Buy). Read the Home Theater Mag March Issue where they tested a SC27 (pretty much the same as the SC25). The reviewer listened to the receiver in stereo mode and absolutely loved the sound of the ICE amps and thought they sounded warmer than his ATI 1505 power amps. He also states that the receiver never lost its composure even at very loud listening levels. I summarized the review as stating that this was the best sounding receiver that the reviewer had ever listened to (for real). I think you'll be more than satisfied. I came from a Denon 3803 hooked up to a Rotel RMB 1075 power amp and I think the Pioneer sounds better (due to the much better preamp section over the Denon). The Rotel amp probably has a very slight edge over the ICE amps in the Pioneer but I think they are phenomenol for a receiver in this price range. They seem to have a lot of headroom which is what I think you are looking for. Go have a listen at Magnolia (B. Buy) and compare this receiver to the 2K Denons and Onkyos and see if you agree.
 

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I'll suggest exactly what you said not to - get an external amp to satisfy your need for SPL. The 705 is no slouch for power but it's likely you won't be happy with any multi-channel AVR for your stereo listening.


Get an Emotiva XPA-2 to power the front mains and get deaf.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfrenzy /forum/post/18120080


I've had a slew of yamaha/marantz/onkyo receivers, currently a TX-SR705. I'm not thrilled with this unit, i'm powering JBL ND310 mains, JBL S-center, Polk R10 surrounds and a Cadence CSX-15 for sub, PDP-5080HD Kuro display and i'm in a 25x15x14' open concept living area.


I've destroyed a few tweeters in the mains as I often listen to music in 2CH mode near or just above "0db" which doesn't have enough output, I also watch a lot of bluray movies L-PCM over the PS3.


It is audyssey calibrated with all speakers crossed over @80hz and sub @120hz per the audyssey setup guide.


I find that even to get a MODERATE volume level I need to be -12db or louder and the amp runs out of juice before i'm satisified.


Does a receiver exist for not $1200+ that will provide the power I want... don't recommend an outboard amp, that's the absolute last thing I want to do as i'm not really happy with the audio mode switching delays and processing of the 705 in the first place.


I'd like a receiver that has some more output, not ridiculously more... but some and of course warmer processing, something that excels in 2CH output as I listen to music most frequently.

The receiver you have has more than adequate power for 2CH. The last pair of JBL speakers I had were L100's. If you're blowing speaker elements, your problem is the speakers not the receiver. I don't have much to say good about the current JBL line. I'd recommend getting move efficient main speakers, like any of the Klipsch Legacy speakers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-Houston /forum/post/18122335


The receiver you have has more than adequate power for 2CH. The last pair of JBL speakers I had were L100's. If you're blowing speaker elements, your problem is the speakers not the receiver. I don't have much to say good about the current JBL line. I'd recommend getting move efficient main speakers, like any of the Klipsch Legacy speakers.

that is too big of a room for an avr. more efficient speakers will help. the only avr I could imagine using in that kind of space would be a sunfire but I think that is likely to run you more than 1k used but it may be worth checking audiogon. That is a little smaller than my listening room and 425 wpc from my cinemagrand sig II is about right. good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So how about SC-25 vs. Yamaha and Emotiva amp? I've always felt no matter how big your mains are... even in full range mode the "newage" AVRs just don't feed them anything but the highend of mids and some highs, no dynamics


Time after time I can plug any set of mains into any surround AVR and it sounds flat and lifeless next to this old 1991 Onkyo 2CH receiver I use on my computer. (I've tried this on the past 5 surround AVRs i've owned in the past 3 years and I keep upgrading getting nothing here)


I'd say i'm satisfied in surround mode I guess, but what ever happened to that warm inviting full dynamics sound you get from those "old" 2CH units even without a sub?


I can honestly say a set of JBL 8" woofered whatever bookshelfs I have on the computer on that 2CH onkyo sound better for music than my properly calibrated surround avr setup, no matter how I adjust cross overs or add in sub.... the output just seems lifeless.
 

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I personally have never noticed a big difference from receiver to receiver (two channel or multi-channel,) but I won't say no differences exist.


I am always curious about such possible differences and what would cause them. I jave no idea what warm means, so that makes it tougher to diagnose. If you lack power, a receiver's output is always going to sound harsh in my experience. Whether that's purely from clipping on peaks, I can't say, as I don't own an oscilloscope. I have heard that current limiters in amps can cause sonic issues. So perhaps it's possible that's a potential issue.


At moderate volumes, all my Yamaha receivers have sounded very much alike and I have owned many.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfrenzy /forum/post/18127229


So how about SC-25 vs. Yamaha and Emotiva amp? I've always felt no matter how big your mains are... even in full range mode the "newage" AVRs just don't feed them anything but the highend of mids and some highs, no dynamics


Time after time I can plug any set of mains into any surround AVR and it sounds flat and lifeless next to this old 1991 Onkyo 2CH receiver I use on my computer. (I've tried this on the past 5 surround AVRs i've owned in the past 3 years and I keep upgrading getting nothing here)


I'd say i'm satisfied in surround mode I guess, but what ever happened to that warm inviting full dynamics sound you get from those "old" 2CH units even without a sub?


I can honestly say a set of JBL 8" woofered whatever bookshelfs I have on the computer on that 2CH onkyo sound better for music than my properly calibrated surround avr setup, no matter how I adjust cross overs or add in sub.... the output just seems lifeless.

The Home Theater Mag reviewer said that he thinks the Pioneer ICE amps sound very much like the old tube amplifiers from decades ago that he lusted after. I think the best thing for you to do whether it is adding an external amp to a Yamaha (or whatever brand you want to try) or the Pioneer ICE receiver by itself is to try it out from a place with a liberal return policy. I think you'll eventually find something you like. I just feel that at the price the Pioneer sells for, and the fact that you stated you didn't want to add an external amp, you won't find a more dynamic sounding receiver for the money. Pioneer put a lot of money into their amp sections of the SC25 and SC27 but didn't put a lot of money into video processing (although they use the ABT 1018 chip) nor do they have Audyssey. They do use the MCACC system which is excellent in lieu of Audyssey.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for the advice, should I budget about 1k$ for a SC-25? I'll be moving my HT equipment downstairs to a finished & carpeted 13x11x8' room which should allow for a lot more headroom in terms of volume, but I still just hate how all the multichannel AVRs i've owned/heard sound... that SC-25 might just be the ticket to what I want
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfrenzy /forum/post/18120080


Does a receiver exist for not $1200+ that will provide the power I want... don't recommend an outboard amp, that's the absolute last thing I want to do as i'm not really happy with the audio mode switching delays and processing of the 705 in the first place.


I'd like a receiver that has some more output, not ridiculously more... but some and of course warmer processing, something that excels in 2CH output as I listen to music most frequently.

If you're going to pull the sort of power you say, I'd start by seeing if an upgrade to the wiring in the room might help. Maybe run #8-2 w/grd as some overkill. Then, forget changing the receiver and get some speakers that will produce more sound pressure. Speaker efficiency ratings can be just as vague as any other specs when you want big pressure levels. Finding some that will handle uber power and push on enough square inches of air to fill your space, that's what you want. If you have only 2 channels being used on your system, it's hard to get a sweet sound and still be able to blast the neighbors. Imo, you need more speakers outputting sound.


Last, if you are not thrilled with the harsh sound of todays receivers, perhaps you should consider finding an old but high end 2 or 4 channel analog receiver and using that for music instead.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfrenzy /forum/post/18120080


I've had a slew of yamaha/marantz/onkyo receivers, currently a TX-SR705. I'm not thrilled with this unit, i'm powering JBL ND310 mains, JBL S-center, Polk R10 surrounds and a Cadence CSX-15 for sub, PDP-5080HD Kuro display and i'm in a 25x15x14' open concept living area.


I've destroyed a few tweeters in the mains as I often listen to music in 2CH mode near or just above "0db" which doesn't have enough output, I also watch a lot of bluray movies L-PCM over the PS3.


It is audyssey calibrated with all speakers crossed over @80hz and sub @120hz per the audyssey setup guide.


I find that even to get a MODERATE volume level I need to be -12db or louder and the amp runs out of juice before i'm satisified.


Does a receiver exist for not $1200+ that will provide the power I want... don't recommend an outboard amp, that's the absolute last thing I want to do as i'm not really happy with the audio mode switching delays and processing of the 705 in the first place.


I'd like a receiver that has some more output, not ridiculously more... but some and of course warmer processing, something that excels in 2CH output as I listen to music most frequently.


Your best bet would be to purchase a used flagship receiver from past years. I was in the same boat as you were last year with the Onkyo 806. And I've noticed most of today's receiver's severely lack in the power dept. So I went online and purchased a mint condition Onkyo TX-NR 1000 and I've never been happier. This unit has globs of power in surround mode and awesome dynamics in 2 channel mode.


When it comes to today's receivers the old saying "they don't make them like they used to" rings true. Most of today's receivers are geared towards people who already have external amps and are simply looking for the latest codecs or clueless people who shop at brick and mortar stores who will shell out $1200 for a receivers with pathetic "real world" 50-70 watts in full 7 channel surround mode with all channels being driven simultaneously.


Ebay has many older flagship Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer, and Onkyo/Integra receivers at very good prices right now since new codecs/evermore buggy versions of HDMI are all the rage right now and older receivers running on past versions of HDMI are having their prices slashed. I would definitely suggest you do a few quick searches online. It will be well worth your time. I'd rather give up access to a few new codecs and have the king of a past model line than settle for the mid level trash they have today.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts /forum/post/18187924


Your best bet would be to purchase a used flagship receiver from past years. I was in the same boat as you were last year with the Onkyo 806. And I've noticed most of today's receiver's severely lack in the power dept. So I went online and purchased a mint condition Onkyo TX-NR 1000 and I've never been happier. This unit has globs of power in surround mode and awesome dynamics in 2 channel mode.


When it comes to today's receivers the old saying "they don't make them like they used to" rings true. Most of today's receivers are geared towards people who already have external amps and are simply looking for the latest codecs or clueless people who shop at brick and mortar stores who will shell out $1200 for a receivers with pathetic "real world" 50-70 watts in full 7 channel surround mode with all channels being driven simultaneously.


Ebay has many older flagship Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer, and Onkyo/Integra receivers at very good prices right now since new codecs/evermore buggy versions of HDMI are all the rage right now and older receivers running on past versions of HDMI are having their prices slashed. I would definitely suggest you do a few quick searches online. It will be well worth your time. I'd rather give up access to a few new codecs and have the king of a past model line than settle for the mid level trash they have today.


+1


I did the same exact thing with a recent purchase of the Pioneer Elite VSX-59TXi and couldn't be happier. MOSFET amps and 160W per channel. It has all the clean power I need.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoellis
+1


I did the same exact thing with a recent purchase of the Pioneer Elite VSX-59TXi and couldn't be happier. MOSFET amps and 160W per channel. It has all the clean power I need.
I'm always glad to see a new VSX-59TXi owner! With a Pio BDP-09FD that has 8 analog outs, I'll be enjoying many more years with this receiver. Now that I have 2 working units (bought a spare on ebay while mine was being repaired) unless my cats really misbehave, I'm set for a long time....



Fred
 

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Since your 705 has preouts, I would just add an amp. Your speakers are rated at 250 watts and 91db sensitivity. If you are blowing tweeters, then I suspect that the speaker specs are not accurate. That is typical in the audio world. Speakers with higher power handling and higher sensitivity will give you what you want with your current AVR. Adding an amp will also improve the performance of your system since you listen at high levels.
 
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