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Discussion Starter #1
There have been discussions about HDMI being inferior in most implementations to SPDIF due to Jitter.


However, after some hours of searching both here and with google, I cannot find tests and references to prepro's and receivers and their jitter.


Every single device claims "ultra-low jitter" but no one seems to either specify their actual jitter for each interface, nor do most of the reviews seem to measure Jitter!


Here are some figures I have collected from the Paul Miller website ... some of the "top" AVR's seem remarkably poor in terms of Jitter.... on my own Onkyo TX-SR876 (same digital boards as the TX-NR906) - the difference between SPDIF and HDMI is quite noticeable! (at least someone is measuring Jitter!)


If Arcam can achieve less than 5ps jitter - on HDMI no less, how can the (very well regarded!) Yamaha RXV3900 come in with 7700ps of jitter (goodbye transparency.... hello the legendary "digital" sound
)


(please excuse the formatting spreadsheet to forum is not a happy transfer!)


Brand Received / Prepro Model Interface Data Rate Jitter (ps)

Arcam ACR600 HDMI 48 5

Arcam ACR600 HDMI 96 5

Pioneer SC-LX81 SPDIF 96 28

Pioneer SC-LX81 HDMI 96 28

Arcam ACR600 SPDIF 96 32

Pioneer SC-LX81 SPDIF 48 33

Yamaha RXV3900 SPDIF 96 38

Pioneer SC-LX81 HDMI 48 51

Arcam ACR600 SPDIF 48 52

Onkyo TXNR906 SPDIF 96 176

Yamaha RXV3900 SPDIF 48 183

Pioneer SC-LX83 HDMI + PQLS 96 204

Denon AVC-A1HD SPDIF 48 217

Denon AVC-A1HD SPDIF 96 220

Meridian G95 SPDIF 96 232

Cambridge Audio Azur 540R SPDIF 48 349

Cambridge Audio Azur 540R SPDIF 96 350

Pioneer SC-LX83 HDMI + PQLS 48 366

Pioneer Susano SC-LX90 SPDIF 96 370

Pioneer SC-LX83 SPDIF 96 409

Denon AVR4308 SPDIF 48 447

Meridian G95 SPDIF 48 465

Onkyo TX-NR5007 SPDIF 96 468

Onkyo TXNR906 SPDIF 48 471

Harman Kardon AVR745 SPDIF 48 475

Denon AVR4308 SPDIF 96 483

Harman Kardon AVR745 SPDIF 96 524

Harman Kardon AVR350 SPDIF 96 557

Denon AVR3808A SPDIF 48 562

Pioneer SC-LX83 SPDIF 48 575

Onkyo TX-SR605 SPDIF 96 679

Cambridge Audio Azur 640R SPDIF 48 707

Rotel RSX1560 SPDIF 48 710

Pioneer Susano SC-LX90 SPDIF 48 712

Onkyo TX-SR605 SPDIF 48 720

Yamaha DSP-Z11 SPDIF 96 739

Denon AVR3808A SPDIF 96 749

Onkyo TX-NR5007 SPDIF 48 790

Cambridge Audio Azur 640R SPDIF 96 948

NAD T765 SPDIF 48 972

Sony STR-DA5400ES SPDIF 96 1140

Sony STR-DA5400ES SPDIF 48 1440

Pioneer SC-LX83 HDMI 96 1461

Yamaha DSP-Z11 SPDIF 48 1516

Harman Kardon AVR350 SPDIF 48 1547

Pioneer SC-LX83 HDMI 48 1582

NAD T765 SPDIF 96 1657

Denon AVR3808A HDMI 48 3708

Denon AVR3808A HDMI 96 3765

Rotel RSX1560 HDMI 48 3770

Onkyo TXNR906 HDMI 48 3858

Rotel RSX1560 HDMI 96 3931

Onkyo TXNR906 HDMI 96 4143

Onkyo TX-NR5007 HDMI 96 4803

Onkyo TX-NR5007 HDMI 48 4872

Yamaha RXV3900 HDMI 48 7666

Yamaha RXV3900 HDMI 96 7707



Would anyone care to contribute additional data for other models?


Comments?


bye for now


David
 

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Discussion Starter #3
My observation of reduced resolution on the HDMI input of my Onkyo TX-SR876 as compared to SPDIF led me to search for what is the main difference between the two interfaces.


The key difference appears to be levels of Jitter - with SPDIF having 175pf and HDMI circa 4000pf


Is the difference Jitter - I don't know - but I know that I can hear the degradation switching between the two.

On large orchestral music, the individual instruments are more clearly delineated, more seperate on the SPDIF interface - where on the HDMI you hear a muddle of sound.


This is not a problem on simpler music, Jazz, Rock, small groups etc.... main issue is when you have highly complex music heavily layered in a major crescendo....


Clearly it is not the amplification or speaker as these are identical, levels are matched, so the difference is the Digital to Analogue transport and conversion process. (Source is a home theatre PC using AMD Radeon card for HDMI output and eMU 1616m soundcard for SPDIF output)


In any case my further investigations into technical articles about digital audio seemed to consistently point the finger at Jitter - and the data for the two interfaces on my AVR also appear to support the supposition that it might be jitter.


Further information on Jitter and its audibility:
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com.au/2011/02/jitter-does-it-matter.html
http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/appnotes-d/jittercu
http://www.digido.com/articles-and-demos12/13-bob-katz/15-jitter.html


Lots more...


But ultimately my posting assumes that Jitter is a problem - and based on this assumption I requested more information from the collective "brain trust"


If for whatever reason, you believe that Jitter either does not exist, or has no audible impact, I suggest you not take part in the thread, as it would merely waste your time and that of other potential participants.


This was not a thread intended to discuss whether or not Jitter exists or is audible.


bye for now


David
 
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