Receiver to drive Magnapan speakers?... Oh my!

I talked to Denon a few weeks ago about 4 ohm speakers and they said that they don't have any model that will handle them. The Yamaha "RX" series receivers will handle 4 ohm speakers.


The nice thing about them is that pretty much everyone, including me, agrees that although Yamaha recommends setting the impedance switch to the 6 ohm/4 ohm position, setting it at the 8 ohm position gives more power without overloading or overheating the set.


I would check out the RX-V2700. it claims 140w/ch times 7 channels to 8 ohm speakers and will likely give well over 200w/ch into the 4 ohm Maggies in the front. I don't know of any receiver that will handle 4 ohm rear speakers. You could drive them with a separate amp rated for 4 ohm connected to the pre/main loops.


I currently own an older RX-V3300 driving MMG's that I'll be replacing soon, probably with the 1.6QR's. I also plan to replace the receiver in the future with something that has HDMI switching. My first choice will be the RX-V2700 unless someone comes out with something better (HDMI 1.3, 4 ohm capability, computer media capabilities, etc.)


I have to admit that my Yamaha did originally distort a bit on loud heavy bass if I set the main speakers to "large" in the menu. I minimized that by setting the main speakers to "small" (that changes the subwoofer crossover point), and pretty much eliminated it by changing the impedance switch.

I find it interesting that Denon would tell you this? Denon (and HK) historically have always been one of the only two brands known to easily handle 4 ohm speakers without going into heat protection. Now, maybe what they were saying is driving Maggies, not sure. I know hundreds of people driving various brands of 4ohm speakers with Denon, even the cheaper lineup, with no problems. Heck, I can drive my Axiom m80v2's to insane volumes with my 2805 for hours with no problems. If the maggies drop down to 1-2ohms on a graph, that may cause issues, but unless it is constant you should be fine.


Also, in regards to Yamaha, what your saying may be true for some of their newer models, however, I know many people that have NOT been able to drive efficient 4ohms speakers without their Yammy's shutting down.


Anyway, Denon has a much better track record than Yamaha in driving 4ohm speakers, that is fact. In reality, any solid state AVR can drive 4ohm speakers, the question is to what volume levels before they go into "protect".

My advice is to try & keep the Sherbourn until you can directly compare the amp section of the 4806 & decide.


This is based on my own experience. I drove 1.6's, the CC3 center, and MC1 surrounds with a Pioneer Elite 59TXi receiver, which has a very robust amp section for a receiver. It's rated power is 130 wpc @ 8 ohms, but has been tested to deliver over its rated output @4 ohms with up to 5 channels driven. The Denon on paper seems to be similarly rated.


Did it work for me? Yes. Was the sound quality & volume adequate? Yes.


But, when I tried a high powered amp on the fronts, there was an immediately noticeable improvement in the 1.6's dynamics & clarity. Detail, transparency, transients (like the action on piano keys & drum hits) & bass slam were all improved. It removed a veil from the music at higher volume levels. The amp was an Innersound ESL which is designed for tough loads like electrostats, rated for 300 wpc @8 ohms. I kept the amp & never looked back. I still use the receiver for the center & surrounds and and am quite happy with the overall sound, even on multichannel music.


The Denon *may* give you adequate performance, but..as u know, the 1.6's are amazing speakers that, given more power, will open up and deliver an even better presentation. IF u sell the Sherbourn, u may end up wishing u hadn't.


Do yourself a favor and keep the Sherbourn for awhile & compare. If HT is the majority of your use, then the Denon may be OK, but if you want the best the 1.6's can deliver for music, especially multichannel music, you'll want as much power as u can afford. One option to save money is to sell the Sherbourn, buy a 2 ch amp for the 1.6's, and let the receiver handle the rest..it would handle the MMGs just fine, especially if u use a sub.


ss9001

As far as 4 ohm capability of the 4806 is concerned,

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...05-part-4.html

Quoting from the review,

"The 4806 is designed for speakers that go as low as 3.2 ohms, and the Finals go down to 4 ohms. They are not very sensitive, but this receiver is certainly powerful enough to use it with ESLs as long as you are diligent with the volume control."


There are multiple reviews on Audioholics, Sound and Vision, Secrets, etc. all testing the Denons' amps at 4 ohms.


While Denon may only be rating them for 6ohms (Pioneer does the same thing for its Elites), they seem to be more than capable of driving 4 ohms. I have been using my 59TXi over 3 yrs, and no problems. I used a Pio 49TXi with same power b4 that. Also drove Maggies for over 20 yrs with a Sansui quad receiver only rated for 60 wpc @ 8 -16 ohms, bought in '78, was worked hard over the yrs., and is still running today.


The limitation in getting lower impedance performance is typically the power supply.


All that aside, Maggies are inefficient and the Sherbourn has more available power per channel, & more is better


ss9001

I'm not arguing whether a Denon will power 4 ohm speakers. I'm sure it will. In fact, I would bet most receivers on the market can power 4 ohm, and even 2 ohm loads.


My point is that Denon, HK and many others don't recommend using their products with 4 ohm speakers and such use might void their warranty. Yamaha does allow 4 ohm speakers to be attached (albeit at reduced power levels).


This has to do with the UL ratings that manufacturers must pass to sell their electronic products in the U.S., not real world capabilities. Yamaha has chosen to incorporate circuitry that reduces the power to the main amp section to comply with UL heat load specs. Many others have not.


Yamahas can power 4 ohm speakers in 8 ohm mode, and will provide substantially higher power output in that mode. That is nearly the same as other manufacturers' capabilities.


I personally don't care much for Denon products. I believe they are way overpriced. That said, I'm sure the Maggies will work pretty well with almost any high power receiver. I recommended Yamaha because I have had great results with my RX-V3300, especially with my old MG-1b's. Not so much with my newer MMG's, but I believe that is the speakers themselves, not the receiver.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cctvtech /forum/post/0


..especially with my old MG-1b's. Not so much with my newer MMG's, but I believe that is the speakers themselves, not the receiver.

Click to expand...

MG-1's are the ones I had too, from '82 to about 4 yrs ago. That's when I

upgraded to 1.6's. I'm now using 3.6's for fronts. The MG-1 sure was a great speaker, especially for its price. Excellent for vocals


Glad to read that Yamaha has worked well for you. The only Yamaha gear I've ever owned was a 2nd gen CD player, and then I only owned it for about a yr.


ss9001

With Yamaha receivers the key to driving a harder to power load is leaving it set to 8ohms not using the impedence switch which limits power for the sake of protection and reduced heat output. Anyone that uses the normal setting which is all you'll find on the other brands will see the same result you see with those other brands. The ones with the shutdown issues are using the reduced setting which may seem logical since the manual tells you to, but a bit of logic and research will make you realize otherwise and solve this issue. That said I upgraded from the receiver to a separate amp and processor. Was it worth nearly $4k to do, probably not but it does sound better. Note even when the Yamaha isn't shutting down once it gets into the zone where it's restricting power it may become noticeable and also sounds better set to 8ohms. I only experienced shutdown issues in 5ch, not 2ch with the lower impedence setting used.


Re: the original post I'd second the advise to keep the amp and try the receiver first. It's simple to p/u a local Denon product and demo it a bit.

cctvtech,

Our local Maggie dealer that I bought the whole set from gave me a trade-in value on the 1.6's, so I used that to help offset the cost.


The 3.6's are more detailed, airy, transparent due to the ribbon tweeter. Vocals, in particular, are more alive. On good recordings, 3.6's do sound better than 1.6's for presence, soundstage. The downside is that with poor or very bright recordings, ear fatigue can set in quickly. The 1.6's still are an incredible value for the money & IMO, are the sweet spot in the Maggie line. But if you want more of the "band & singer are in the room" illusion, the 3.6's will give it to u, much more so than 1.6's.


Overall, it was well worth it to me to upgrade. If u ever do decide to upgrade, I'd strongly recommend an external amp at that point. The speakers present even more of a load since they are bigger & bass goes deeper.



BTW- wonder what happened to the original poster? Maybe we scared him off

ss9001



Quote:
Originally Posted by funkstrong /forum/post/0


For Magnepans you might want to look into UcD based amps. Ones that use the Hypex modules are a good start. For more info google Hypex. They're completely load-invariant, so driving the Maggies should be easy. CIaudio has some well reviewed modules, but if you dig around you can find a bunch more.


They're small too!

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And darned expensive! I know that $2300 isn't a lot to spend on 200w monoblock amps, but I do have an equipment space problem and I still want to get a modern receiver with HDMI switching and all of the other bells and whistles.


Besides, there is little difference in sensitivity between the various Maggies:

MMG - Sensitivity 86dB / 500Hz / 2.83v

MG 12 - Sensitivity 86dB/500Hz /2.83v

MG 1.6 - Sensitivity 86dB/500Hz /2.83v

MG 3.6 - Sensitivity 85dB/500Hz /2.83v

MG 20.1 - Sensitivity 85dB/500Hz /2.83v


All are within 1db of each other so the same RMS power should produce approximately the same volume in every model. Since all of the models below the 3.6 are quasi-ribbons, they should also present the same type of load to the amp. Since my Yamaha RX-V3300 has no problem driving the MMG's as loud as I want or my wife can stand, I don't foresee having any problem driving the 1.6QR's.


I've owned separates in the past and agree that they're probably a bit better than most, if not all, surround receivers but due to space limitations I had to accomodate the surround equipment and a PVR in the same space as my preamp and amp. That's why I chose a (relatively) high end receiver.