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Budget: $500


Preferred brands: Onkyo, Denon, Pioneer, Harman Kardon


Don't really want: Yamaha, Sony


Primary use: Blu-ray movies via PS3


I need at least a 5.1 receiver with 3 HDMI inputs, 1 HDMI output. One for the PS3, one for an Xbox 360, and one for the HD cable box. An extra 4th HDMI input would be nice for growth but not necessary.


Needs to support 1080p video to the TV.


Audio formats: At least DD/DTS and LPCM via HDMI. I want to be able to convert everything to LPCM on my PS3 and get full uncompressed audio to the receiver. Does *NOT* need to do TrueHD/HDMA.


If there exists a 7.1 receiver that fits into these categories, by all means recommend it
. If the option for Pro Logic IIz is available, even better!
 

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A couple of HK avrs are the current best deal IMO.

Harman Audio on ebay is selling (dumping) the 247 and 254 at great prices. They share the same amp - I own a 247 - and have plenty of power. Unless you need 1080P video processing - and you probably don't - and HD audio processing - you might - get the 247 and save a few bucks. The 247 is selling for well under $200 with shipping and the 254 goes for around $240 plus shipping. There are 22 254s and 19 247s on the auction block by Harman as of now.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 /forum/post/16954275


A couple of HK avrs are the current best deal IMO.

Harman Audio on ebay is selling (dumping) the 247 and 254 at great prices. They share the same amp - I own a 247 - and have plenty of power. Unless you need 1080P video processing - and you probably don't - and HD audio processing - you might - get the 247 and save a few bucks. The 247 is selling for well under $200 with shipping and the 254 goes for around $240 plus shipping. There are 22 254s and 19 247s on the auction block by Harman as of now.

Those are very good deals indeed...I assume 50 Watts per channel is enough as long as you dont have a HUGE setup? The onkyo 507 has 80watts per channel.
 

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HK rates their receivers with all channels driven. This evens the playing field with other receivers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman /forum/post/16959315


HK rates their receivers with all channels driven. This evens the playing field with other receivers.

Oh ok thanks....how can i find out how the different brands rate their receivers, since it seems like it varies a lot.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkthrone /forum/post/16959733


Oh ok thanks....how can i find out how the different brands rate their receivers, since it seems like it varies a lot.

The only way to know how true they rate the power is to see the bench tests. Unless you can do that yourself you'll have to take the word of professional review sites and testers. In short, you can just ask around here because it's common knowledge with most members. HK is on a very very short list of companies that give honest power ratings. Among ALL the receivers at $500 and under you can expect no more than 40-50wpc with 7 channels driven. That's a pretty good general guideline. Assuming the sensitivity of your speakers are around 90db then you only need 1w of power to reach that and double the power for every 3db after that. You get the idea
2w=93db 4w=96db 8w=99db 16w=102db 32w=105db 64w=108 128w=111db


So 50wpc will be plenty to get things loud enough for most sensitive speakers for most people's taste. There are other variables however, such as how many speakers, how big your room is and what's in it, ambient noise etc etc.
 

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I agree with another person above that a refurbed Marantz 7001 would be a great choice at this pricepoint. If you compare it side-by-side with any of these other receivers mentioned it pretty much outperforms them all...especially in the power category. It does come with a 1 year warranty which does add some comfort.

I would definitely consider a year old model whether it's refurbed or even brand new. There is just so much more support for it, the kinks have more or less been worked out and there are steep discounts. It just makes more sense all-round.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielson99 /forum/post/16959925


Assuming the sensitivity of your speakers are around 90db then you only need 1w of power to reach that and double the power for every 3db after that. You get the idea
2w=93db 4w=96db 8w=99db 16w=102db 32w=105db 64w=108 128w=111db

I agree with your stated point, but your supporting data is a bit skewed. As far as blind assumptions go, you're over-estimating the efficiency of most (not all) speakers in the inferred price range, along with failing to take into account SPL falloff at distances greater than 1 meter (the distance at which sensitivity is measured). At a listening distance of 4 meters (~13') the SPL falloff in free space is around 12db. There are multiple speakers and room acoustics to take into account, but you're definitely not getting the stated efficiency from your front speakers at your listening position.


Give this whitepaper a quick read for a better understanding of SPL in regards to power, speaker efficiency, and distance (without getting TOO into the theory & math).
 

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Not taking distance into account is a pretty major overstatement of efficiency and misleading to those who don't understand the relationship of efficiency, power, and distance... you're losing over 12db difference at 13', which is a pretty average seating distance. Expecting most speakers the OP might be using to have a 90db/w/m efficiency is also a stretch. The way your post read would lead someone with minimal understanding to believe they'll be hearing 108db from 64w of power regardless of their seating distance and based on a high-estimate of average efficiency... when something like 94db is more likely with 12db of loss from distance and a more likely efficiency around 88db.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins /forum/post/16960207


The way your post read would lead someone with minimal understanding to believe they'll be hearing 108db from 64w of power.

They will be if their head is the same distance from the speaker as the mic was that was used to perform the bench test. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure that out...I'd give the OP enough credit as to assume this. I guess it's a good thing you're here though to really put things into perspective seeing as how vague my statement was. It leaves very little for the OP to assume....
 

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Pioneer Elite VSX-01


or for $50 more, get this year's replacement model: VSX-21


Note that the newer model does not do 7.1 via ANALOG connects (but can do it via hdmi or I guess digital coax or fiber)


Both have pro logic iiz (first time I have seen anyone actually WANT that!
) Hasn't it been debunked as so much hoodoo? (I read several articles about how it didn't add squat to the sound, or so minimalist, that it certainly was not worth the added cost/space/design considerations)
 

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The reason I make the point I do is this forum and most like it are full of people that know just enough to confuse others. People learn a little here and there from reading posts and then start passing it along on their own, but with very small but key bits left out... then the next person who learns from them ends up with an incomplete education on the matter and, in turn, passes that along to someone else.


If the OP has a detailed understanding of power, efficiency, and distance, then great... I wan't trying to offend him or you by filling in the detail gaps. But something tells me everyone who reads this won't have that grasp of the subject... and we'll probably end up with more people passing along incomplete information than we will people who take the time to complete their understanding before passing said info along. At least with my contributions they have some references at-hand to do so if they want to.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins /forum/post/16960318


The reason I make the point I do is this forum and most like it are full of people that know just enough to confuse others.

This thread doesn't seem like the time or place to give a detailed description of power ratings. If the OP is interested in a *detailed* version of it there are excellent threads on this subject. Giving the general description I did was what seemed to be a more appropriate example of power ratings...and like I said in the posts...these were 'general rules' and a 'basic idea'. This leaves it obviously on the other person to dig deeper to find all the incredibly detailed information on the subject.


You can see it as confusing a person, I see it as steering them in the right direction to find out what it's all about. If you'd like to type out all that MJH posted in his thread about avr's power and how it relates in a real world environment then feel free. Like I said, this isn't the time or place for it. The OP is looking for advice on what AVR to get....


I agree with you on one point for sure....some people do know just enough to confuse people. Lets leave it at that and let the OP to read MJH's thread for more information instead of turning this thread into something it shouldn't be.


To the OP, if you want a detailed description about power ratings I suggest you go HERE
 

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If you're going to try to explain efficiency (which you did correctly, for the most part) I would expect there to be some mention of the relationship of distance... even if it's just "this is all at 1 meter" or maybe even as little as properly stating units of efficiency as db/w/m or db/2.83v/m... because without one of those stipulations, none of it holds and incorrect inferences are far to easy to make. This kind of topic is riddled with people who either assume others know more than they do, don't know themselves and are just repeating incomplete information (i'm not saying that's you), or both.


I'll agree the OP doesn't need a dissertation... he probably needs our bickering even less... but ignoring distance makes the point inaccurate and spreads incomplete information, when the way to avoid both is as simple as either inserting one sentence or properly stating units of measure.
 
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