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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys,

I am completely stuck on which HDTV is best for my situation. I've weighed and weighed the advantages disadvantages of both LCD/LED and Plasma. One day, I make up mind about LCD, then the next its plasma. I've been to BB and Ultimate Electronics viewing the TV's and can't come to a decision.


Some of the disadvantages of both technologies that are an obstacle for me are viewing angles for LCD and bright room for Plasma . I've attached some pics that show that the TV is elevated from any viewing point. I'm not sure if its elevated enough that it already makes the LCD viewing angle poor. It also shows how many windows I have (south facing). The blinds are down, but I don't necessarily close them during the day - I like natural light in my room



My viewing habits are all types of sports, tv shows, and movies (both dvd and blue ray). No console games.


I'm convinced I want 52" or bigger since I am 13' ft away or as close as 7' on the side couch. I'm really leaning toward a 54" Plasma or 55" LCD. The second picture shows that I can actually see the TV perfectly from my kitchen so maybe a 58" would be nice even for that distance. I can watch sports on my 36" as it is, barely, so anything bigger is gonna be nice.


My budget is $2500.


For all that is holy - please help, football is around the corner and my buddies make fun of me for having an old CRT!



... forgot to mention, yes I've been to BB and Ultimate Electronics viewing TVs for the past 2 weekends for several hours. I've seen how glossy some of the samsung lcd's and plasmas are, i've seen grey blacks on plasmas, i've seen bluish blacks on LEDs, i've seen great viewing angles on plasmas, bad viewing angles on lcd's, etc...


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc3 /forum/post/16905765


... forgot to mention, yes I've been to BB and Ultimate Electronics viewing TVs for the past 2 weekends for several hours. I've seen how glossy some of the samsung lcd's and plasmas are, i've seen grey blacks on plasmas, i've seen bluish blacks on LEDs, i've seen great viewing angles on plasmas, bad viewing angles on lcd's, etc...

Perhaps you need to spend 3 hours at Ultimate Electronics instead of 2! Seriously, you haven't narrowed it down between a hand full of sets? The usual assertion is to go with a Pioneer plasma. Is there anything you happen to notice that you do not like with any of their models? Or is it a budget issue?


The top rated 54" plasma is the Panasonic TC-P54V10 (within budget) and the top 55" LCDs are the Sony KDL-55XBR8 (out of budget), Samsung UN55B8000 (out of budget), and LG 55LH90 (within budget).
 

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Solution... buy the one you really like, but from a local retailer; it makes the inevitable return and exchange easy and painless. Odds are good that you will not make the best choice the first time around. Odds are also very good that you will change your mind in a few weeks about what you believe constitutes good picture quality, and you may want to make an exchange. Take it from someone who's bought 7 TVs since January and kept 3.


If it's an LCD and the viewing angles affect your viewing enjoyment... get yourself a plasma, or another LCD that is better. I had an LG LCD that had awful picture degradation at just 30 degrees. The Sammy that replaced it can go 60-70 degrees with very little change in pic quality.


If you are one of those guys that can see flicker in plasma, or hear the buzzing they sometimes make... swap it for an LCD.


If your eyes are sensitive to motionblur, another simple exchange for a plasma, or LCD with a higher refresh rate.


If the screen is too reflective, exchange for a matte screen LCD.


Looks like you will be simply setting it on its stand; a swivel stand can help with both viewing angle and reflection.


Feel no remorse about exchanges, if it would cost the stores substantially, they would not offer this benefit to customers. In the end, it's going to be a purchase you'll be living with for years.. make sure you are happy.


Happy Hunting.... good luck... and have fun!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks fellas for the ideas.


I did play around with the V10 quite a bit and probably narrowed it down to the 54". I would consider samsung, but man, reading about all the buzzing i know would turn me off even if I could hear it a tad my ears are that sensitive. I did put my head behind a samsung plasma and I could hear the exhaust fans or whatever they are making noise - granted thats a different noise then the buzz from the front. As for pioneer, I don't know... had bad experiences with their products in the past (non-tv) and its a brand i've never considered again (i know, i know, their plasmas are rated best).


i've also played around with the toshiba 670U, looked at the 47 LH90, all the sony lcd's and samsung but haven't narrowed it down to which one I like the best. maybe thats next on my list.


chinee - i have a feeling thats what it might come down to. narrowing down to a few sets as rgb said, go with my gut feeling, and if need be swap out to try another. good to know that swapping out won't hurt a b&m's feelings



i will be waiting for the samsung 8500 to show up at my best buy on aug 16th. it will be out of my budget, but if this tv is good as all the hype, it will be a good measuring stick.
 

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You call that a bright room? You're joking right?


In that situation plasma is the way to go. The high viewing angle kills LCD right away. Go at least 54" possibly 58" if you can. Pioneer,if you can, Panny or Sammy if you can't, either will be great.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt L /forum/post/16905915


You call that a bright room? You're joking right?


In that situation plasma is the way to go. The high viewing angle kills LCD right away. Go at least 54" possibly 58" if you can. Pioneer,if you can, Panny or Sammy if you can't, either will be great.

Matt,

that is part of my dilemma - is it too bright? I don't know!! That last picture is very misleading because I can't take pics (that was more for tv elevation). It seems that everything I read about plasmas, the best way to view them is in the basement crawl space /sarcasm. So I figured with a nook of 3 windows, the sliding glass door next, and then the 2 windows up by the kitchen is too much light for a plasma since I do alot of football watching.


I do appreciate the feedback!
 

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I have an 8 foot x 4 foot north facing window that sits on the adjacient wall 90 degrees from my plasma (within about 5 feet) and I have not been bothered by reflections at all, no matter the time of day. Any reflections are really not noticable by me; their impact on anything I am watching is negligable.


Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
hey Mike- since those windows are north facing, I'm assuming there isn't any direct sunlight coming in? my windows are south facing, and in colorado that's 300+ days of sunshine
you can see in the picture the current reflection i have on my crt, so like you said, i bet i wouldn't notice it much at all since im already used to it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc3 /forum/post/16907329


hey Mike- since those windows are north facing, I'm assuming there isn't any direct sunlight coming in? my windows are south facing, and in colorado that's 300+ days of sunshine
you can see in the picture the current reflection i have on my crt, so like you said, i bet i wouldn't notice it much at all since im already used to it.

a) You don't have direct sunlight on the screen but you have a large amount of light from the side in the first photo. As we can see from the CRT it is bad with very dark scenes (which you usually don't have with sport broadcasts) and you can see some reflections on it. You will get reflections on either a plasma or an LCD with a glossy panel but it's hard to say how bad it will be.

A semi-matte LCD will improve the situation a bit but if you are satisfied with your CRT you can live with a glossy panel, too. Considering your lamps in the room your real problem is natural daylight and the bright furniture/walls.


b) You don't have any excessive viewing angles! This room is very well suited for an LCD. The only thing you have to take care of is to tilt the panel a bit downwards to accomodate the viewing positions on the couches if you want the best picture quality an LCD can deliver. Even if you don't do it you won't get an abysmal picture. For plasmas this isn't a problem at all, but...


c) ...you should take a look at a wall mount as you don't have too much room up there. You should also consider the heat output of your future screen and the space the manufacturer says should be free above it!

A wall mount lets you tilt a panel downwards easily if it is supported.


d) As you seem to have a decent sound system (5.1?) you don't need very good speakers on the TV. The sound quality of some modern screens is considered very poor. Some Pioneer models speakers are optional so you could leave them out if you can make a deal on one.


e) If you watch sports very often you should either consider an LCD with at least 120 Hz (better yet: "Black Frame Insertion" or "Backlight Scanning") or a plasma.


Recommendation? Either panel type will work in your room but it depends on what and when you watch to get a "more optimal" result.


If you watch under bright lighting conditions more often and can't close the shutters all the time you should either consider an LCD or a newer plasma like one of the Panasonics. Personally, I would take a semi-matte screen over a glossy one but this is a highly subjective matter.

If you watch more often in darker lighting conditions (or are willing to close the shutters) then a plasma is preferable.


bye

Benny42
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks Benny, see responses below in blue text.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny42 /forum/post/16907890


a) You don't have direct sunlight on the screen but you have a large amount of light from the side in the first photo. As we can see from the CRT it is bad with very dark scenes (which you usually don't have with sport broadcasts) and you can see some reflections on it. You will get reflections on either a plasma or an LCD with a glossy panel but it's hard to say how bad it will be.

A semi-matte LCD will improve the situation a bit but if you are satisfied with your CRT you can live with a glossy panel, too. Considering your lamps in the room your real problem is natural daylight and the bright furniture/walls.

It is on my todo list to paint the room, but never thought about a darker paint might help tone down the overall brightness of the room. That is the original generic neutral paint from when the house was built 10 years ago!


b) You don't have any excessive viewing angles! This room is very well suited for an LCD. The only thing you have to take care of is to tilt the panel a bit downwards to accomodate the viewing positions on the couches if you want the best picture quality an LCD can deliver. Even if you don't do it you won't get an abysmal picture. For plasmas this isn't a problem at all, but...


c) ...you should take a look at a wall mount as you don't have too much room up there. You should also consider the heat output of your future screen and the space the manufacturer says should be free above it!

A wall mount lets you tilt a panel downwards easily if it is supported.

The room on that mantle is misleading in the pictures. Its actually like 2.5 -3 feet in width, so I think I have enough space. After all, that is a 250lb 36" Sony Tube that fits perfectly up there front to back. If that fits, I figured any HDTV would fit with space to spare. Since I might not have alot of space above, at least I will have enough space behind to keep the air circulating.


d) As you seem to have a decent sound system (5.1?) you don't need very good speakers on the TV. The sound quality of some modern screens is considered very poor. Some Pioneer models speakers are optional so you could leave them out if you can make a deal on one.

Correct, I have B&W speakers with an SVS sub, so TV speakers aren't an issue for me


e) If you watch sports very often you should either consider an LCD with at least 120 Hz (better yet: "Black Frame Insertion" or "Backlight Scanning") or a plasma.


Recommendation? Either panel type will work in your room but it depends on what and when you watch to get a "more optimal" result.


If you watch under bright lighting conditions more often and can't close the shutters all the time you should either consider an LCD or a newer plasma like one of the Panasonics. Personally, I would take a semi-matte screen over a glossy one but this is a highly subjective matter.

If you watch more often in darker lighting conditions (or are willing to close the shutters) then a plasma is preferable.

Well, thats just it. I guess I watch programs in all types of lighting conditions. During the day, during the night with lights on, night with lights off, blinds up, blinds down, etc..



bye

Benny42
 

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Hey Arc3, direct sunlight only enters my room in the late evening/early morning in the summer, about a half/three quarters of an hour before sunset or just at sunrise. So not much problem with direct sunlight as my set faces east. Can't tell you more than that; have not had any experience with direct sunlight on a plasma.


Best of luck.


Mike
 

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Hi Arc3,


Well, I'll go ahead and chime in here. Your room actually looks alright for ambient light. It is not ideal, no, but it's alright. I think you could get a top-quality (Elite-level Kuro) plasma within your price range. Their colors, black levels, post-calibration brightness (>50 ftl.!), and motion resolution all leave the V10 Panasonic in the dust. If you're interested in pursuing that path, PM me, as price talk and "where-to-buy" talk are technically forbidden on AVS Forum.


Now, I still agree with Benny42 that you could do very, very well with a solid LCD. Both Samsung and Sony have made great strides in motion resolution, and please don't believe the 240Hz hype--120Hz, properly implemented (*cough* whatwasLGthinking??? *cough*), is all you'll need. Here I think Samsung really stands out. At any rate, both manufacturers offer many very solid LCDs within your price range.


Yours,


David
 

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Wait! ... What's going on here?


A thread about "What to buy" not going up in the LCD vs. plasma flames?


AVS members must be growing up (finally!). It's the first thread I've read where level-headed opinions and recommendations are offered by almost all!


Kudos everyone!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Plasmas are the worst. LCD's rock!


no, no, no....


LCDs are horrid. Plasmas rule!!


no, no, no...


How's that for flames
I didn't want anyone to think my thread is boring!


But whats interesting, as I read back through everyone's recommendations, I think everyone sees that either technology could possibly work in my situation - the exact reason I've confused myself! But I'm gonna go in to a store, narrow it down to 2 plasmas and 2 lcd's, rank them in order, and then buy the one that looks best to my eyes. If it doesn't work, take it back and go with #2, and so on. Hopefully it only takes one try



Thanks again for all the helpful comments!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc3 /forum/post/16917734


I think everyone sees that either technology could possibly work in my situation

Exactly
Quote:
.... buy the one that looks best to my eyes. If it doesn't work, take it back and go with #2, and so on.

You're the only party here who has to be happy.


Shopping is fun... Shopping for yourself is priceless (well, not really)... but still... Enjoy!
 

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All Plasmas will give you terrible glare.

All 650+ Samsungs, W Series+ Sonys, LGs, current Mitsubishi, etc all use the Glossy Samsung factory screen which will also give you a lot of glare.


Solution: LT-52149, $1999 + Free $400 wireless subwoofer from me = D


Matte screen for no glare

120hz

10 bit panel

6 color processor instead of 3

16 speaker surround sound built into TV. (Similar to Bose but 16 speakers instead of 2)

Wireless subwoofer = D

No running cords. Just set your dimensions for your room.


Its easy. Just do it : )
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsun947 /forum/post/16952177


All Plasmas will give you terrible glare.

All 650+ Samsungs, W Series+ Sonys, LGs, current Mitsubishi, etc all use the Glossy Samsung factory screen which will also give you a lot of glare.


Solution: LT-52149, $1999 + Free $400 wireless subwoofer from me = D


Matte screen for no glare

120hz

10 bit panel

6 color processor instead of 3

16 speaker surround sound built into TV. (Similar to Bose but 16 speakers instead of 2)

Wireless subwoofer = D

No running cords. Just set your dimensions for your room.


Its easy. Just do it : )

Can I get a Shamwow with that order?
 
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