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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am posting this thread to get a straight answer to this question that I have not yet managed to grasp. AS their are forum memebers currently with extensive collections of satellite recordings I know this can be done. But it is not clear to me how. I have ordered the Hughes E86 HDTV DDS DirecTV HD and I want to make sure it is the right STB to try to hook to a JVC recorder.
 

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The answers are in the reading of the threads- I'll summarize it for you:


As of today you can only record HDTV programming that comes from a receiver as either an 8VSB signal such as the Dish5000/HDTV modulator using either the Panny system or the DTC-100/HDVR100 where the dish5000/HDTV modulator's 8VSB is converted to 1394.


Your equipment describbed does not output an 8vsb signal to feed to one of these boxes. In fact, to date, there is nothing currently available that offers an 8VSB output for DirecTV channels so you can record the HDTV on a DVHS recorder. 169Time currently has under beta test a system in conjunction with their HDVR-100-2 board in the DTC-100 that will allow you to record DirecTV HDTV channels.


If you really want to get into recording HDTV from DirecTV then I suggest you check out 169Time product as they are probably closer to delivering a solution than anyone else. If you want to record DishNetwork channels in HDTV then locate the Panasonic system, described in many threads, do a search. You can also mix the DN5000/modulator with the DTC-100/HDVR100 dfor Dish Network recording


OTA HDTV recording is also available from several systems but the easiest now seems to be the Mits recorder or JVC recorder connected to a 169Time modified DTC-100( HDVR100) Other systems such as computer based recorders are also being used but these don't appear as easy to work with as a DVHS tape based system at this time, especially for archiving. They are more suited for simple time shifting.


Today, the only sat receiver that is still available and is best suited for adaptation to HDTV recording IS the DTC-100 or it's knockoff, the Proscan clone but few are using these Proscans. There is no substitute! Contact 169Time and buy a modified DTC-100 from them and connect to your DVHS recorder and start recording HDTV from OTA. Buy the Dish5000/HDTV modulator and receive dish channels (these are difficult to find now and are expensive). with this you can get DishNet HDTV recording. You will also be in position to add the DirecTV recording option when 169Time releases it after testing is complete.

The alternative is to wait for something and watch the others record.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
O.K. Cool I found the Hitach D-VHS recorder. Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U for 699.00 Great.


Now if I am to understand it I need to get a DTC-100 with a fireware out ?


I found the DTC-100 for about 225.00


Now the 169time.com sells a modified HDVR-100-2 for 799.00


But it states that they have not announced support for sat recording yet.


SO my questions are:


1. I have found the DTC-100 selling in conjunction with DirectTV why is DirectTV not compatible ?


2. What hardware and software would I need to record from the DTC-100 to the Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U.


3. Why is this so $%^ confusing and complicated.


Alex


I will read a couple more threads but I've got to get some real work done...
 

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You need to get the add on board for the dtc100 from 169time first before they run out. Then once we can get this darn bug that we have been working on for a month now, hope we can get the beta program up soon for sat recording.


dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It seems the simplest thing to do is get the Dish 5000 with HDTV modulator and connect it to a HIPIX. That is a total cost of $1350.00 Would this record Satellite?


Why not just do this ?


What do we do to cheaply connect the 5000 with HDTV modulator to a recording device such as PC D-VHS.



So apparantly the cheapest way to do this is:


1. Dish 5000 with HDTV modulator 850.00

2. 169time board with satellite bug fixed-in-a-month-beta 799.00

3. Mitsubishi recorder 699.00


Thats it ? Right ? I can't get OTA.


Alex
 

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Reality check for you-


I just purchased an HDVR 100 board and did a self install. It is prudent decision to buy the 1 year upgrade due the the rumored additional features that may need this firmware upgrade over the next year.

That price was $977 with 2 day shipping. The bug fix that Dave talks about is a bug in the program that rides in an accessory outboard box that he and 169Time are working on. It is not part of the inside the DTC-100 board that I have priced for you here. There has not been an announced price for this external accessory to allow HDTV recording off the DirecTV channels that I have heard.



What is the cheapest way to go is not at all the easiest. Sometimes it is better to spend a bit more to have something that is relatively convenient.

The HDTV modulator for the 5000 is sold for whet the market will bear. I haven't seen any prices lately. What I have seen of these PC hard drive recorders are neither convenient nor that inexpensive.


The MItsubishi has recently been advertised for the price you stated, but AFAIK, the 169Time is currently the only solution for playback right now unless you have one of the new monitors with 1394 input.


Today we have more options to record HDTV. More than we had 2 years ago, for sure. But it still is not a "plug-n-play recording solution like SVHS is. With DVHS, at least the media is as cheap as SVHS.


While it is still speculation, there are rumors confirmed that Dish Network may, I mean that "is considering" changing the modulation scheme which would render the 5000's modulator useless so it is a caveat emptor on paying a bunch of bucks for one of those 5000 modulators right now.


I suppose, if I didn't have anything and wanted to get into this today, I'd go with the DTC-100 / HDVR100 plus a Mitsubishi. It seems the safest bet with best immediate growth potential to record HDTV off satellite as well as OTA. Everything else is at least end of the year or beyond. Spend a few more bucks and get the JVC for D Theater prerecorded tapes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I am intrigued by a PM I received from a member with an extensive video collection. From what he says I could use a DTC-100 with the HDTV modulator and as it uses 8VSB ATSC the HIPIX will be able to decode the signal. If work progresses, the D-VHS recorders can be directly interfaced to the computer or other storage methods can be used.


This method would initially cost only 800.00 more than basic Satellite HDTV Service (400 for the HIPIX and 400 for premium on the HDTV Modulator). The most I stand to lose is 800 for the DTC-100 with HDTV modulator.



Here is the mail with his name deleted just in case he doesn't want to be known.


"Since it is 8VSB signal it can be accepted by any ATSC tuner including hipix"



Adv Member


----- Original Message -----

From: W Alexander Hagen

To: adv Member

Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 1:04 PM

Subject: recording satellite



O.K.


The HIPIX can take a satellite signal via a Dish 5000 with an HDTV modulator ?


Did I hear you right ?
 

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The dtc100 with f/w 1.6 can dump 8vsb output directly to XP Computer.

YOu can use an HiPix here if you want but as Don says, for me, not dealing with the issues a windows computers has is the only way for me to go.


dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hey Auburn Man ! (Former Davisite here)


"The dtc100 with f/w 1.6 can dump 8vsb output directly to XP Computer.

YOu can use an HiPix here if you want but as Don says, for me, not dealing with the issues a windows computers has is the only way for me to go. "


Of course I need the HDTV modulator to accomplish this.

right ?


ALex
 

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There are two sources for 8vsb now. One is OTA is you get with a UHF antenna. The other is the output of the dish5000 modulator.


dave
 

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5000/Modulator/HiPix works great, better than I could have imagined.


HiPix team is working on streaming direct to i.link (like MyHd card) vs. using hard drive as intermediate storage. Personally the harddrive route is preferrable to me for all storage.


Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
From My Research on these boards there are potentially four routes to bulding a video collection of HD content. This assumes you have a way to get the content into a PC in some of the scenarios (HIPIX, MYHD, etc with either the 169time or the Dish 5000).


1. Burn DVDs. 400 for the DVD Burner, 4.00 a blank roughly. This case would make ripping using Divx or Xvid compelling.


2. D-VHS. In my view this is actually more complex, and has slightly higher upfront costs (600 vs 400) but each blank is 10 or 12 for 45 GB


3. Hard Drive. 250 for 160 GB. Plus any mounting trays.


4. DLT or DDS. (Tape storage) This method may be relatively slow for reads.


My Question is:

1. Are the D-VHS tapes useful for non video content, that is using for backup up the PC, etc.. I believe the answer is yes.

2. What are the relative speeds of these systems, particularly for writes. Obviously nothing is likely much faster than the Hard Drives, which probably can do net throughput of 10 MBps comfortably.


3. Which will be most friendly to HDTV capture cards ? (DVD or D-VHS)


4. What is at the sweet spot technically ? Will D-Theater content really be coming out ? (There are only 12 Superbit movies in the world). It seems to me that ripping via DIVX to DVD may be the best option, as one could easily transport the DIVX software to remote locations to allow playback on any PC or PJ.


P.S. Thanks for the invaluable assistance I have received from so many people here. It has helped me to avoid making mistakes and regret that I did not find this resource sooner. This forum (and forums like this) will be helpful in getting the tech recession over and done with, as people find new uses for technology!! If all goes well I will be able to announce something very interesting in a few months that was born from my experimentation with video (I do not work in Video but in telecommunications).


Alex
 

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Current cost analysis of some available systems for HDTV recording to DVHS: ( available today)


System 1: Records DN and OTA Time shift and archive

5000/HDTV Mod $1000

Panny system: DST50/PVHD1000 $1500

Techniques audio decoder $150

Archive cost per hour: $2



System 2: Records DN and OTA Archive & Time shift

5000/HDTV Mod $1000

DTC-100 with 169Time installed w warrantee $1700

MItsubishi DVHS $699

or JVC DVHS $1099

Archive cost per hour $2



System 3: Records DN & OTA Time shift only:

5000/HDTV Mod $1000

HiPix $400

Computer (adequate) with additional HD capacity $1400


There may be other systems as well but these are some recent pricings I have found.


Beyond pricing, one needs to study the future and current options. While the system #2 appears to be the most expensive up front cost, it offers the basis for the best expansion opportunity and both time shift and archival for very low cost per hour of $2


The absolute cheapest system limits the user to OTA and would require a self install- with no warrantee:


Archival system:

Used DTC-100 for $300

169Time for $830

Mits DVHS for $699



Time shift Only:

HiPix $400

Computer (adequate) with additional HD capacity $1400
 

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Good analysis Don.


You can add to the dtc100 169 option the ability is coming to record sat so wouldnt need to spend the 1000 bucks on the dish5000 which may get turned off. (I have two setups so I will be dead meat). Please other possible features coming out later in the solution.



dave
 

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I'm a bit confused by a couple of statements regarding the 169time DTC-100 add-on.


"The dtc100 with f/w 1.6 can dump 8vsb output directly to XP Computer. "


Does this occur via the firewireport added to the back of the DTC-100 ?


If the DTC-100 is outputting 8svb via the firewire port, how can this be recorded with the Hipix card?
 

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RTK-


Yes, sometimes H20 Dave can be confusing in the shortcuts he takes to describe stuff... :)


When I first read it I was shocked too but that is what he means. You input the 8VSB signal to one of the two DTC-100 inputs A or B. Then tune to the channel on the A or B input of the 8vsb and the DTC with 169time (HDVR100 board) 's two 1394 ports will output a 1394 signal of that 8vsb signal that you input to another 1394 device that will see the signal as 1394 such as a computer with appropriate drivers and software That's my understanding although I personally have not done the DTC to computer thing yet. Dave is NOT saying that the DTC-100 has an 8VSB OUTPUT with a 169 time board installed, just that you can get from here to there.
 

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Sorry for not being thorough.


The DTC100 takes in an 8vsb signal from either an OTA or a dish5000 modulator output into its a or b input. I have them both on mine. The 169time firewire output can then be connected to a firewire card in an XP computer. One then runs the graphedit stuff you have seen here and make a disk file. I have done this many times. YOu can then watch it on your computer. YOu can send it back to d-vhs tape. Or you can use your HiPIx card to output to a monitor.


dave
 

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thanks for the clarifications.


what are the advantage of a 169time modifed DTC-100 vs. a Dish5000/modulator/Hipix combo?


From what I can figure out, the current HD content available


DirectTV has HDNet, HBO, PPV


Dishnet has HBO, Showtime, CBS (some areas) and PPV


Both options allow OTA HD recording.


Both can archive to D-VHS? (I think this is possible or being worked on for Hipix)


Both could be rendered obsolete by changes implemented by either provider, merger etc however this should not be used to scare anyone from one side to the other. its just a reality of those who wish to play :)
 
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