I believe the official argument (though I don't think it's very convincing) has something to do with needing to make extra royalty payments when more than one physical disc has the same material. I remember reading that somewhere fairly recently, but I could have either misunderstood or the article was wrong.
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REM DVD-A's
Picked up the new re-releases of "Green" and "Automatic For The People" today. I'm pretty pleased with the mixes -- generally tasteful and subtle, with some occasionally pronounced surround effects. (Maybe a little too much backing vocal in the surrounds for my taste, but whadayagonnado?) If you're an REM fan at all, I'd definitely recommend them.
On a related note, these Warner releases on 2 discs, CD+DVD-A, strike me as the perfect solution to the hi-rez vs. portability issue. Why is the industry mucking around with the questionable functionality of DualDisc, when this option and Hybrid SACD are great ways to offer the best of both worlds in one package?
On a related note, these Warner releases on 2 discs, CD+DVD-A, strike me as the perfect solution to the hi-rez vs. portability issue. Why is the industry mucking around with the questionable functionality of DualDisc, when this option and Hybrid SACD are great ways to offer the best of both worlds in one package?
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My understanding of the royalty issue would have the same problem applying to Hybrid SACD, DualDisc, everything. The publishers want royalties for multiple instances of the same music in different formats, even if they're on the same disc.
I, for one, don't blame the publishers and artists, though. After all, the record company is releasing these albums with "added value" and charging us more for it. Why shouldn't the authors of that "value" get a slice of the pie? For every dollar spent on CDs, Music DVDs, etc., the songwriters get literally a few pennies, and that's only after the record company makes back all the money they spent on recording, etc. I wouldn't worry for a second about the record companies -- they'll find away every time to make sure they get more than their fair share.
Quick example -- the law says a record company has to pay mechanical royalties. Not to be confused with the artist's share of sales, these are the royalties paid to the writer of each song on an album in exchange for the right to manufacture copies of the songs. They amount to a few cents per song per disc printed. BUT, even if an artist releases a 20 song album, their contracts with the labels cap the mechanicals they are eligible to receive at 10 songs. That's nonsense.
I, for one, don't blame the publishers and artists, though. After all, the record company is releasing these albums with "added value" and charging us more for it. Why shouldn't the authors of that "value" get a slice of the pie? For every dollar spent on CDs, Music DVDs, etc., the songwriters get literally a few pennies, and that's only after the record company makes back all the money they spent on recording, etc. I wouldn't worry for a second about the record companies -- they'll find away every time to make sure they get more than their fair share.
Quick example -- the law says a record company has to pay mechanical royalties. Not to be confused with the artist's share of sales, these are the royalties paid to the writer of each song on an album in exchange for the right to manufacture copies of the songs. They amount to a few cents per song per disc printed. BUT, even if an artist releases a 20 song album, their contracts with the labels cap the mechanicals they are eligible to receive at 10 songs. That's nonsense.
I might buy one or two of these albums if I can find them way off the absurd $25 list...? What's the point of media priced this high unless it's 24 karat gold plated which these discs are not...!
For the occasional fan the Best Of is a much better deal but I realise some people have issues with Best Ofs.
I picked up Best of, Green, Around the Sun, & Monster.
Overall I thought the package and quality was very good. The mix varies from drastic disrete to ambient effects.
I would say that this is B+ in sound quality, surround use B. Packaging B+
I quickly browsed through last night and I found some mixes like At my Most Beautiful knocked my socks off, but others were ok. Bass also varies from album to album.
I would suggest the best of first and then for deep fans I would go with the rest.
I personally like any release that is sacd or dvd audio. Maybe this will spark the industry to take notice.
I can't wait for the Bowie and the new Beck......
Overall I thought the package and quality was very good. The mix varies from drastic disrete to ambient effects.
I would say that this is B+ in sound quality, surround use B. Packaging B+
I quickly browsed through last night and I found some mixes like At my Most Beautiful knocked my socks off, but others were ok. Bass also varies from album to album.
I would suggest the best of first and then for deep fans I would go with the rest.
I personally like any release that is sacd or dvd audio. Maybe this will spark the industry to take notice.
I can't wait for the Bowie and the new Beck......
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DeepDiscountDVD has these for about $18 w/ free shipping
| Originally posted by Rachael Bellomy I might buy one or two of these albums if I can find them way off the absurd $25 list...? What's the point of media priced this high unless it's 24 karat gold plated which these discs are not...! |
DeepDiscountDVD has these for about $18 w/ free shipping
Well for myself I am a little disappointed in the REM Automatic For The People release. The DVD-Audio disc is obviously simply a repackage of the original DVD-Audio from a few years ago. As far as the CD it appears that it is simply a repackage of the original CD release. I don't see or hear anything that indicates this is a remaster. Coupled with that there is no informative booklet or packaging and absolute zilch in terms of bonus audio material and the video stuff on the DVD is old hat. Top it off with the exhorbitant price and what you have is another marketing rip-off by another major record label. Between this and Sony's deplorable Dual Disc releases I can only hope that Universal will once again come to the rescue in high res music.
Actually there is a booklet, and it's pretty interesting. It's inside the center panel of three part fold-out package. Just reach into the top of that middle part.
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I obviously missed that. Other than overlooking the booklet everything else I wrote would appear to stand.
| Originally posted by captdusty Actually there is a booklet, and it's pretty interesting. It's inside the center panel of three part fold-out package. Just reach into the top of that middle part. |
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I didn't buy the previously released 3 DVD-A because I thought it was the same DVD-A. Logic suggest, because of time and budget, those 3 DVD-As would be the same but with a CD. They were released this way for people looking to have both, the DVD-A for home and CD for car, boombox, etc...
In fact, I think none of the CDs were made from a newly mixed and remastered version. It's time and budget consuming. As a matter of fact for most POP multichannel releases, the 2ch hi res version is transferred from a previous 2 channel master. The heavy work is directed to creating a multichannel mix.
| Originally posted by mwheelerk Well for myself I am a little disappointed in the REM Automatic For The People release. The DVD-Audio disc is obviously simply a repackage of the original DVD-Audio from a few years ago. As far as the CD it appears that it is simply a repackage of the original CD release. I don't see or hear anything that indicates this is a remaster. Coupled with that there is no informative booklet or packaging and absolute zilch in terms of bonus audio material and the video stuff on the DVD is old hat. Top it off with the exhorbitant price and what you have is another marketing rip-off by another major record label. Between this and Sony's deplorable Dual Disc releases I can only hope that Universal will once again come to the rescue in high res music. |
In fact, I think none of the CDs were made from a newly mixed and remastered version. It's time and budget consuming. As a matter of fact for most POP multichannel releases, the 2ch hi res version is transferred from a previous 2 channel master. The heavy work is directed to creating a multichannel mix.
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Yeah, this royally sucks.
Why are all of the other REM DVD-A disks (from what I've seen) 96KHz and not this album -- one of their greatest?
(I already had the original 48KHz version, but believed or wanted to believe the marketing that this was something new...)
| Originally posted by mwheelerk Well for myself I am a little disappointed in the REM Automatic For The People release. The DVD-Audio disc is obviously simply a repackage of the original DVD-Audio from a few years ago. As far as the CD it appears that it is simply a repackage of the original CD release. I don't see or hear anything that indicates this is a remaster. Coupled with that there is no informative booklet or packaging and absolute zilch in terms of bonus audio material and the video stuff on the DVD is old hat. Top it off with the exhorbitant price and what you have is another marketing rip-off by another major record label. Between this and Sony's deplorable Dual Disc releases I can only hope that Universal will once again come to the rescue in high res music. |
Why are all of the other REM DVD-A disks (from what I've seen) 96KHz and not this album -- one of their greatest?
(I already had the original 48KHz version, but believed or wanted to believe the marketing that this was something new...)
S.:
If the original capture was digital at 48kHz for ATFP upsampling would be a modest benefit at best.
Cheers,
If the original capture was digital at 48kHz for ATFP upsampling would be a modest benefit at best.
Cheers,
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Certainly if the source is 48KHz, I stand corrected... 
| Originally posted by John Kotches S.: If the original capture was digital at 48kHz for ATFP upsampling would be a modest benefit at best. Cheers, |
Go get Perfect Square REM DVD for a decent sounding concert with lots of excellent tracks. Plus you can get it at half the price of these DVD-A's.
I passed on the new R.E.M. DVD-As.
I already own the DVDA only release of the Greatest Hits and Automatic for the People.
I would have been interested in Out of Time but I already have the CD, so why do I want to pay $23 for another one?
They missed the boat on these releases. Make it something special so the casual R.E.M. fans have a reason to purchase.
How about bonus tracks or alternate takes?
Or just make it a Dual Disc type DVDA on a single disc and charge $14 for it like NIN.
I already own the DVDA only release of the Greatest Hits and Automatic for the People.
I would have been interested in Out of Time but I already have the CD, so why do I want to pay $23 for another one?
They missed the boat on these releases. Make it something special so the casual R.E.M. fans have a reason to purchase.
How about bonus tracks or alternate takes?
Or just make it a Dual Disc type DVDA on a single disc and charge $14 for it like NIN.
I find it amusing how quickly we A/V enthusiasts become spoiled. In the case of video we go from complaining there isn't enough HD on TV, to comlaining about the quality of the relative flood of HD broadcasts we're seeing these days. In the audio world, we jump straight from "how come there are so few releases?" to "why didn't they make it something special?" I, for one, think that sparkling hi-rez audio quality and a decent (though not truly great) 5.1 mix ARE something special. While I agree that outtakes or bonus tracks of some kind would have been nice, I'm still pleased as punch that Warner bothered at all to revisit the back catalog of a great artist and spend a few bucks doing a surround mix, to which only a few thousand audiophiles will ever bother to listen.
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Admittedly, the REM DVD Audio releases I've heard all sound great. Even the 48KHz ones...
However, if by HD complaints you're referring to people's objections to the compression being used to trash the PQ, well, I think people should raise hell about that.
| Originally posted by captdusty I find it amusing how quickly we A/V enthusiasts become spoiled. In the case of video we go from complaining there isn't enough HD on TV, to comlaining about the quality of the relative flood of HD broadcasts we're seeing these days. In the audio world, we jump straight from "how come there are so few releases?" to "why didn't they make it something special?" I, for one, think that sparkling hi-rez audio quality and a decent (though not truly great) 5.1 mix ARE something special. While I agree that outtakes or bonus tracks of some kind would have been nice, I'm still pleased as punch that Warner bothered at all to revisit the back catalog of a great artist and spend a few bucks doing a surround mix, to which only a few thousand audiophiles will ever bother to listen. |
However, if by HD complaints you're referring to people's objections to the compression being used to trash the PQ, well, I think people should raise hell about that.
Oh, don't get me wrong -- I'm one of the complainers, too, especially about compressed HD feeds. It's just that, on the rare occasions that I'm able to step back and take an objective look at myself and my fellow enthusiasts, I see how funny it is. Most of the stuff we complain about is still truckloads better than what we had before. Anybody remember analog cable? Cassette tape recorders? VHS?
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While it is nice to have these releases in DVDA, as a consumer, I hate paying for the same thing twice. Trust me, I'm gullible, it doesn't take much for me to fold like a tent to buy something twice. I already have the standard CD, it would be like me opening it up the package and throwing the CD away.
I feel these are valid gripes. If the studios want hi-rez audio to succeed (I personally don't think they care), they need to factor in these variables. Compare the NIN Dual Disc for $13.99. You get the remastered CD plus a DVDA with bonus tracks in one set. That is something Joe Consumer can swallow.
I think having to pay +$20 to get a HiRez version of Neil Young's Greatest Hits was a stupid move but I paid it anyway. I doubt the average fan really cared.
If these were standard DVDA releases for ~$15, I probably would have bought all the ones I needed, instead I bought zero.
Also, I'm an R.E.M. fan but these aren't CDs that I would listen to all that much.
If they released a 5.1 DVD/SACD of Exile on Main Street and charged $100 for it, I would happily pay it, salivating all the way.
D
| we jump straight from "how come there are so few releases?" to "why didn't they make it something special?" |
I feel these are valid gripes. If the studios want hi-rez audio to succeed (I personally don't think they care), they need to factor in these variables. Compare the NIN Dual Disc for $13.99. You get the remastered CD plus a DVDA with bonus tracks in one set. That is something Joe Consumer can swallow.
I think having to pay +$20 to get a HiRez version of Neil Young's Greatest Hits was a stupid move but I paid it anyway. I doubt the average fan really cared.
If these were standard DVDA releases for ~$15, I probably would have bought all the ones I needed, instead I bought zero.
Also, I'm an R.E.M. fan but these aren't CDs that I would listen to all that much.
If they released a 5.1 DVD/SACD of Exile on Main Street and charged $100 for it, I would happily pay it, salivating all the way.
D
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