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I had just gotten ANOTHER e-mail to promote the 4000 (only this time from Audible.com) and with the standard $100 discount (on all but the 40 hour model of course), it said the following in the fine print:
Quote:
SONICblue reserves the right to automatically update or modify the operating software on each ReplayTV 4000 when it connects to their server. They may add, modify or cease support for certain advanced features from time to time. If they add, modify or stop supporting any of these features, the features will be automatically added, modified or disabled when your ReplayTV 4000 connects to their server.
:eek:


Basically if this whole lawsuit from the networks (and others) come to light and they remove features, it basically leaves us with a box that just has more HDD space, but that we paid a whole lot more for. :(
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Zyph
I had just gotten ANOTHER e-mail to promote the 4000 (only this time from Audible.com) and with the standard $100 discount (on all but the 40 hour model of course), it said the following in the fine print:

:eek:


Basically if this whole lawsuit from the networks (and others) come to light and they remove features, it basically leaves us with a box that just has more HDD space, but that we paid a whole lot more for. :(
I know Zyph sometimes the fine print can be the deal breaker but which of these official features do you think could really prove illegal?
 

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The thing to remember here is the goal of the lawsuit.


If you record a show and send it to 10,000 people, the networks may not be terribly happy, but they won't be very badly hurt.


Send it to people without commercials, however, and THEN you aggrivate the advertisers. If you send out a show with the ads still attached, the advertisers will love you for it. They're getting their ads out to more people for free. And do not doubt for a second who drives the industry: the advertisers.


The advertisers are the ones truly driving this issue, and there is a feature on this box that they may likely want to get disabled -- the automatic commercial cutting feature. They are no doubt attacking the entire company and PVR unit in the hopes of reaching a settlement where SonicBlue will disable the commercial-cutting feature.


I would expect that feature to be removed at some point, but none of the other features seem to pose a financial threat to anyone. Even if the networks don't like you sending a program to your friends, they won't say word one about it because the advertisers are all for it. That plus the fact that these units won't be able to "broadcast" it to multiple people at one time makes it no threat whatsoever.
 

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Given the "official" statement from ReplayTV, I don't see how anyone can justify spending $2k hoping a certain feature will be present. Specifically, if SonicBlue were forced or opted to remove the "Commercial Advance" feature, then why would I want a 4000? The other features are compelling, but this one sends it over the top for me. Maybe I'm the only one. I may just have to check it out for a month and then send it back. Then they can "hope" for me to come back once the lawsuit is settled.


Cheers
 

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This is getting wayyyy ahead of ourselves, BUT:


let's say they do remove features (like commercial advance or send show) after we have purchased the unit. I wonder if we, as consumers, would have a case against SB. Has this ever, in history been done before? I think it's another new thing that the digital age brings.


Here's to hoping that we never have to get to that point.
 

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Since they are telling you upfront that they are reserving the right to do this, what "case" exactly do you think you would or should have?
 

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All right, I really do not want this to become blown out of proportion. I am 99.9% sure that I will not be unhappy and that good features will not be removed (or won't be able to be hacked back:D ).


But- software licenses are not truly tested under the law yet. The law is kind of iffy on if all the user licenses they make you sign really can hold up in court.
 

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This is the standard statement that companies like ReplayTV and TiVo make as a condition of use.


Remember when they added advertisement pause screens? This issue came up. Basically, you can't refuse a software change/upgrade. You own the hardware but they still own the software -- and to use the hardware you need the service, so you get what they give you.


This probably has nothing to do with the lawsuit specifically -- it is a generic statement they use so they can upgrade and modify software at will.



Joe
 

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Exactly, Nothing new here. Current models have the same rules. I doubt that such an industry accepted feature like CA would be pulled, considering the fact that a zillion VCR's have it...
 

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I don't believe anyone is "blowing" this out of proportion. There are valid concerns here given the ease with which SonicBlue can change the product at will.


It is my opinion that the new 4000's are not worth nearly as much with any of the features removed. These boxes are pricey. As such they should be feature rich. Anything else is not worth it to me. Of course, I wouldn't be concerned if I was not already buying one.


Cheers
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by diamondlod


[.....]

Send it to people without commercials, however, and THEN you aggrivate the advertisers. If you send out a show with the ads still attached, the advertisers will love you for it. They're getting their ads out to more people for free. And do not doubt for a second who drives the industry: the advertisers.


[......]
The Commercial Advance system does not remove commercials. I will say it again . . . Commercial Advance does not remove commercials . . . . One more time . . . Commercial Advance does not remove commercials.


Commercial Advance marks the beginning and end of commercial breaks, such, that on playback, at the option of the viewer, those marks can be used to cause the player to fast forward past those commercial breaks.


That said, SONIC|blue produces several dual-deck VCRs that actually do create a commercial-free copy of the marked original. I get two tapes, one that is the marked original with commercials that can be skipped over, and a copy that was made by pausing Deck 2 while Deck 1 skipped the commercial break. This is an automatic feature that is the default for the copy function.


So, will the ReplayTV 4000 send programs that are just marked up originals complete with commercials, or will they perform the Commercial Advance playback function and send the show with the commercials removed? My guess is that they will just do an FTP and send the entire show as a file with the Commercial Advance marks in it. Then the viewer has the option of watching the commercials, or not. Just like they would if they had recorded it.


And, a few months from now, we might even know the truth. :D


Bye. :cool:
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Amazingly Smooth
I don't believe anyone is "blowing" this out of proportion. There are valid concerns here given the ease with which SonicBlue can change the product at will.


It is my opinion that the new 4000's are not worth nearly as much with any of the features removed. These boxes are pricey. As such they should be feature rich. Anything else is not worth it to me. Of course, I wouldn't be concerned if I was not already buying one.

Well...


I agree with you -- take away commercial advance and you take away 50% (from my point of view) of the "benefit" you get from going from ReplyTV 3000 to 4000.


But the terms of use statement that was cited isn't something ReplayTV came up with out of the blue (no pun intended) to address future removal of commercial advance. It's a standard clause they have always had. So, citing that particular statement with regards to this topic IS blowing it (the terms of use statement) out of proportion. We all know that if they lose a lawsuit against the TV/movie industry they will remove it. That has nothing to do with the terms of use.


I guess the point is that while there is no guarantee that the ReplayTV 4000 series will have any particular feature in the future, that statement wasn't added SPECIFICALLY to address the possibility that commercial advance will be yanked.


That seemed to be the implication in the initial post


Joe
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Crunchy Doodle


The Commercial Advance system does not remove commercials. I will say it again . . . Commercial Advance does not remove commercials . . . . One more time . . . Commercial Advance does not remove commercials.
Thank you Crunchy Doodle... I said which of these official features could prove illegal and the very last on that list (of the most common suspects) would ever be Commercial Advance!! Come on people this is ridiculous!! It has been around forever and just how anyway would that ever be illegal (just think about it)? That disclaimer has nothing to do with Commercial Advance, nothing to do with the LAN, and nothing to do with encrypting our content like fort knox!! Analogue recorded signals are not even digital. The only consideration is possible limiting the widespread "broadcasting" of the files over the internet, whether or not they can openly be "Napster" this isn't entirely settled and it has nothing to do with CA or the ability to play any of your files anywhere in your home anyway anyhow. I said official features and none will be removed! Some could be fine tuned to comply with settlements and this will never affect CA so just drop that misunderstanding about CA "removing" the commercials here it simply doesn't you're perfectly free to watch them. :( :( :(
 

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Look at the bright side, they might even (heaven forbid) add some features on you when you aren't looking, I hate that...


I'm also thinking that they are charging top dollar for the high capacity units to cover their bases on warranty. A low volume device with bleeding edge drives in it might be hard to predict for failures. When in doubt, pad it ;)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Ed Rempalski
Look at the bright side, they might even (heaven forbid) add some features on you when you aren't looking, I hate that...
Ed you are the "Bleeding Edge" of the Bleeding Edge so advanced in fact you have to "wait longer" for your transfusion? ;) (If they have 4 of those 160 drives now they should put you first in line) As to the disclaimer I think it just points to their legal thoroughness and an example of why I'm confident they are gonna "win" the whole enchilada ;)
 
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