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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For my 7.1 home theater I have Inifinity Primus Speakers (360 towers, C25 center, P140 rears and PS10 sub). They are driven by a Denon4806CI avr. I looked up the sensitivity spec and they are only 93dB. A friend just bought Klipsch speakers and he claims they are 104dB! I would like to crank up volume more and am I incorrect in my assumption that higher sensitivity would allow greater volume without the Denon overheating? Also, better audio quality would be desired. Any suggestions on better quality speakers to replace the Primus? Or, should I hang on to what i've got?


Thanks!
 

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The Village Idiot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochymama /forum/post/17003007


93dB is very respectfully efficient and should get you to near ear-bleed levels for all but the largest of rooms, and most likely sound better than a lot of the klipsch speakers.


Gotta agree with that. Maybe its because I haven't heard the right pair of Klipsch yet?


If you want to get more out of those Primus speaker crank the Denon up a bit - and stick a fan on it if you are worried about heat. If the Denon can't take it (doubtful) it will shut off automatically.


Quit worrying and crank it up and enjoy a better sounding pair of speakers than your friend has!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks guys - I crank the Denon up all the time and it goes into thermal overload and I have three fans sitting on top of it! Also, I don't think the Denon/Primus sounds very good. The stock toyota am/fm/cd player in my truck sounds better playing CDs.


If Klipsch is overpriced and non-performing, what is the next level up from the Infinity Primus?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitchen_space /forum/post/17003048


Thanks guys - I crank the Denon up all the time and it goes into thermal overload and I have three fans sitting on top of it! Also, I don't think the Denon/Primus sounds very good. The stock toyota am/fm/cd player in my truck sounds better playing CDs.


If Klipsch is overpriced and non-performing, what is the next level up from the Infinity Primus?

93dB sensitivity is above average. Most speakers fall into the 88-90dB range. I think some troubleshooting is in order. How loud are you listening? What is the number value on the volume read-out. And how far do you sit from the speakers?


As to the Primus's not sounding as good as your stock car stereo, this could be a room issue. What is it that you don't like about the sound? How is your room furnished? Lots of exposed hard surfaces? Or do you have carpet, soft furniture, drapes over the windows?
 

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and are you running your speakers large or small?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

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Originally Posted by hifisponge /forum/post/17003074


93dB sensitivity is above average. Most speakers fall into the 88-90dB range. I think some troubleshooting is in order. How loud are you listening? What is the number value on the volume read-out. And how far do you sit from the speakers?


As to the Primus's not sounding as good as your stock car stereo, this could be a room issue. What is it that you don't like about the sound? How is your room furnished? Lots of exposed hard surfaces? Or do you have carpet, soft furniture, drapes over the windows?

The Denon's volume read-out goes up to +18.0dB. I sit around 10 - 12 feet away. The room has hard wood floors. Wood shutters over the windows. Not a lot of furniture. The speaker setting in the Denon is set to 'large.' The sound is difficult to describe. It just doesn't sound natural. As if the band were live. Is sounds tinny, not crisp, not sharp. Dull, muffled.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitchen_space /forum/post/17004731


The Denon's volume read-out goes up to +18.0dB. I sit around 10 - 12 feet away. The room has hard wood floors. Wood shutters over the windows. Not a lot of furniture. The speaker setting in the Denon is set to 'large.' The sound is difficult to describe. It just doesn't sound natural. As if the band were live. Is sounds tinny, not crisp, not sharp. Dull, muffled.

What volume do you typically listen at? I have a Denon 3806 and have had 360's in the past and the amp barely gets warm when I play near reference (somewhere near the 0 volume level) , let alone going into thermal overload. Maybe you've already damaged the receiver and/or some or all of the speakers.


How much time have you spent thoroughly troubleshooting the settings of the Denon? They have a million options and sometimes certain options cancel out other options and you might not have it set the way you think it's set.


One other thing is that the C25 may not be the best option for the highest spl's.


I've been to Harman and got to see the measurements of the Primus 360 and discussed it with the lead engineer, and it measures much better than speakers that cost vastly more. I wouldn't be confident of being able to beat the 360 on sound quality if I didn't have around $1500 to spend. Not saying its impossible, but just saying you've picked a speaker with high sound quality and improving on it will be pretty expensive.


On the other hand, if you're looking to be blown out of your seat with volume and impact, maybe you want PA type speakers. Just a thought.


Another idea came to mind: cross the speakers over as small, try to improve your bass slam by experimenting with sub placement/level. In a review of the Revel F32, a speaker with significant bass output, the Revel guys still crossed it over to small and relied on the subs for low bass.


I also think there could be some issues with reverbing around your reflective room. Both my listening rooms are fairly echo-y and I know things would be better if they were not so excessively live.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by markwriter /forum/post/17005232


How much time have you spent thoroughly troubleshooting the settings of the Denon? They have a million options and sometimes certain options cancel out other options and you might not have it set the way you think it's set.

The Denon 4806ci is exceedingly complex and I can't really figure out how to use it. I basically plugged the thing into the wall and did the most basic configuration. I hate the thing and wish I had purchased a Pioneer Elite SC7 (my friends seem very happy with theirs).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitchen_space /forum/post/17006145


The Denon 4806ci is exceedingly complex and I can't really figure out how to use it. I basically plugged the thing into the wall and did the most basic configuration. I hate the thing and wish I had purchased a Pioneer Elite SC7 (my friends seem very happy with theirs).

Man, I can sympathize. In some ways, we don't come prepared for how much effort it takes to 'dial in' a sound system in the multichannel world. I'd camp out with the manual if I were you. It definitely looks like it is a serious piece of equipment.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitchen_space /forum/post/17004731


The Denon's volume read-out goes up to +18.0dB. I sit around 10 - 12 feet away. The room has hard wood floors. Wood shutters over the windows. Not a lot of furniture. The speaker setting in the Denon is set to 'large.' The sound is difficult to describe. It just doesn't sound natural. As if the band were live. Is sounds tinny, not crisp, not sharp. Dull, muffled.

Something certainly doesn't seem right. The Primus speakers may not be for everyone, but they shouldn't sound tinny and muffled.


Just use the auto set-up with the mic that comes with the Denon. It should take care of most, if not all that is needed (except assigning inputs).
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge /forum/post/17007463


Something certainly doesn't seem right. The Primus speakers may not be for everyone, but they shouldn't sound tinny and muffled.


Just use the auto set-up with the mic that comes with the Denon. It should take care of most, if not all that is needed (except assigning inputs).

OK - I ran audyssey. Some interesting observations - I discovered the "EQ" button on the AVR. When I am listening to CD music, selecting EQ Audyssey results in poor sound quality (sounds like they are singing inside a shoe box). And, the max volume is reduced from +18dbB to 11. The best results for music sound quality were with EQ set to "Manual" or "Off." The only way to restore the max volume back to +18 is to select EQ "Off."


I'll try EQ Audyssey with a DVD movie next.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitchen_space /forum/post/17010301


OK - I ran audyssey. Some interesting observations - I discovered the "EQ" button on the AVR. When I am listening to CD music, selecting EQ Audyssey results in poor sound quality (sounds like they are singing inside a shoe box). And, the max volume is reduced from +18dbB to 11. The best results for music sound quality were with EQ set to "Manual" or "Off." The only way to restore the max volume back to +18 is to select EQ "Off."


I'll try EQ Audyssey with a DVD movie next.

Your experience runs counter to nearly everyone that has used Audyssey - including myself - I had Audyssey in the Onkyo SC885 preamp that I had for several months before I sold it - but it wasn't because of the Audyssey that I sold it.


You might want to make sure all your speakers are in phase - you know - positive from the receiver to positive on the speakers etc? Sounds like you haven't set things up properly. As someone else noted the P362s aren't noted for being tinny or muffled.


Check that your sources are connected in the most advantageous manner - using digital connections is usually better than using analog. Things like that.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitchen_space /forum/post/17010301


OK - I ran audyssey. Some interesting observations - I discovered the "EQ" button on the AVR. When I am listening to CD music, selecting EQ Audyssey results in poor sound quality (sounds like they are singing inside a shoe box). And, the max volume is reduced from +18dbB to 11. The best results for music sound quality were with EQ set to "Manual" or "Off." The only way to restore the max volume back to +18 is to select EQ "Off."


I'll try EQ Audyssey with a DVD movie next.

I never fully liked what Audyssey did for the sound of my system either. You don't have to use it, especially if you like the sound better without it.


However, make sure that you have done the set-up properly.


Follow these instructions:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14456895
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitchen_space /forum/post/17010301


OK - I ran audyssey. Some interesting observations - I discovered the "EQ" button on the AVR. When I am listening to CD music, selecting EQ Audyssey results in poor sound quality (sounds like they are singing inside a shoe box). And, the max volume is reduced from +18dbB to 11. The best results for music sound quality were with EQ set to "Manual" or "Off." The only way to restore the max volume back to +18 is to select EQ "Off."


I'll try EQ Audyssey with a DVD movie next.

Have you run the audyssey setup? In other words, are you engaging the circuit without having run the setup?
 
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