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Discussion Starter #1
I have a Panasonic 60ST60 that's failed. It's under warranty but they can't fix it so I'm getting $1800 in store credit. I'm having trouble deciding on what to replace it with. I use it about 75% of the time for gaming, 25% for watching movies. There are no plasmas left, so I have to go LCD.

I'm willing to spend about $3000 ($1800 credit + $1200 cash).

Viewing angle: Sites like rtings make me apprehensive about viewing angle. In stores I typically don't notice it when looking at TVs. But on rtings it makes the difference between on axis viewing and 30 degrees off axis look very severe. I have a 2 seater couch about 6' away from the TV. I don't want slight head movements to produce noticeable color change. Basically I don't want the effect you get with crappy TN panels on laptop displays.

Motion blur: I don't want to see trails behind game elements. I find I notice this effect especially in 2D style games like the Mario Bros games on Wii U.

Input lag: Anything below 60ms is fine.

Size: 60" - 70"

Color/Contrast: My buddy has a 70" 2014 M series Vizio that I thought looked alright. So at least as good as that.

I'm in Canada and my warranty is through Best Buy so I can only choose a TV available through them.

I've looked into the 2015 Vizio M70-C3 70", but some people have reported problems with turning off the soap opera effect which makes me nervous. rtings also didn't make the viewing angle or motion blur situation look very good.

Also looked at the Samsung JU7100, but the viewing angle and motion blur seem to be about the same as the Vizio.

I'm kinda stumped at this point. Feels like a lot of compromise and none of these TVs are on display anywhere for me to check out in person.

Suggestions?
 

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RIP Panasonic 60ST60. We only knew ye a short time, but loved you none the less.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm looking at the Vizio 2015 M70-C3 70", the Vizio 2014 P 60" and the Samsung 2015 JS8500 65".

Vizio M70-C3
Pros
70" (10" larger)
4K

Cons
Motion blur
Viewing angle
Reports that you can't turn off soap opera effect

Cost: $1350 cash + $1800 store credit

Vizio P602UI-B3
Pros
4K
Low cost
72 dimmable zones as opposed to 32 in M70

Cons
Motion blur
Viewing angle

Cost: $235 cash + $1800 store credit

Samsung JS8500
Pros
Quantum Dots
4K
65" (5" larger)

Cons
Expensive

Cost: $3000 cash + $1800 store credit
 

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Too bad you couldn't hold off until sep/oct and get the flat 4K Oled coming out, otherwise I would get the JS8500, also the new Sony's are a good option too, but I don't think BB has them yet. You have come to realization that no LCD will have viewing angles as the plasma, unless it's OLED.
 

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Check out a clearance sale on 2014 Sony X800B

Sizes 55" (S-IPS) & 65" (dont know the type of panel on this one)

The 55" looked fantastic. Wide viewing angles from the S-IPS panel.

Also the 2014 Samsung H8550 is being clearanced as well.
 

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I just replaced my Panasonic 60st60 with a Samsung 65" JS9000, and I'm happy with it. The plasma set didn't break -- but I wanted an HDR capable set. I know, it's not in your budget. Still, the JS9000 is really nice. It does have a problem with off-axis viewing, but it's not so bad that you can't move a couple of feet to either side and still see a good picture. It's more a decorative problem, thinking of the TV as an attractive piece of furniture. Standing up and walking around the room, you're treated with an unpleasantly degraded video picture.
 

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Go with the JS8500 65" . I have the JS9500 and absolutely love it. Of course, if money allows, go for the JS9000 or JS9500 :)
 

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I got the JS8500. It's good, but I'm still undecided on whether or not it's worth the cost.
I had the same dilemma last fall when a screw flew into the screen of my 50ST60 plasma. I ended up with a Samsung HU8550 that I purchased on Black Friday, so the price difference was not as bad as it could have been. Even with calibration (meter, etc.) in retrospect, I should have just paid the $1200 and got a new screen for my ST. I am ok with the Samsung (and it certainly has a beautiful picture at times) but I've had to lower my viewing expectations with it. I guess can live with that till OLED gets a little more mainstream, hopefully by next year.
 

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I ended up with a Samsung HU8550 ... (and it certainly has a beautiful picture at times) but I've had to lower my viewing expectations with it.
The Samsung JS9000 has a much better picture than the HU8550. I have both.
 

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With the price of these TV's I can see why you'd say that. I'm in a similar boat which is why I keep waiting to buy, spending $3-4k on a TV should get you something pretty amazing that blows you away. It's insane IMO that for that price you only get the "entry level" HDR tv.
 

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The Samsung JS9000 has a much better picture than the HU8550. I have both.
Good to know Greg. Thanks. I have the OCB box coming to me in a few weeks. Hope it gets mine closer to your JS series in picture quality.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
As I'm spending more time with the JS8500 and trying more movies and games with it, I'm liking it more and more. I watched Terminator 1 and Alien on bluray last night. The blacks were incredible. The letterboxed areas were indistinguishable from when the TV is off and the darkest picture areas were only slightly brighter. In terms of shadow detail it beats my ST60 which had incredible blacks but they were crushed.

I'm going to a friend's house today who has a 2014 70" M series Vizio which has FALD. I'm going to bring over some movies and game systems to compare motion blur and black levels.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I would avoid Vizio like the plague until they fix their firmware issues. Been six months now and still no fix on my set.
I've heard of the issue on the 2015 models where you can't turn off the soap opera effect. Is that what you're referring to?
 

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I got the JS8500. It's good, but I'm still undecided on whether or not it's worth the cost.
The Panasonic CX850 should launch in the next 30-45 days. if you're youre unsatisfied at the one month mark you should see if one is on display in your area (estimated US launch price of $3K range).
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I checked out my friend's 70" 2014 Vizio M yesterday. The blacks were great, very deep and inky. Motion blur was minimal, better than any LCD I've tested. Color was vibrant.

The blacks were quite crushed however. I spent about 2 hours messing around with picture settings and couldn't rectify the issue. I read there was a firmware update that added a gamma control. But I guess that's part of that 1.60 firmware that was bugged and got pulled, so no gamma control for me. The TV also crashed once and rebooted itself while I was adjusting picture settings. Between firmware 1.60 for the 2014 models and the current firmware for 2015 models that doesn't allow you to turn off the soap opera effect, Vizio's firmware and update process makes me nervous.

Comparing the Vizio to the Samsung, the Samsung's blacks weren't always quite as dark as the Vizio's, but it wasn't a big difference. The Samsung does not have crushed blacks, you can see so much more picture that is lost in a sea of black on the Vizio. We watched The Guest and Alien last night and while Alien looked good on the Vizio, The Guest didn't fare as well. The JS8500's picture also has a certain quality that's hard to articulate. Sometimes the picture almost looks 3D, or like you're just looking through a window. It's very striking. It does tend to reveal flaws in the source material though. My Japanese import of Dawn of the Dead looked better on the Vizio which hid a lot of the imperfections.
 
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