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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alright here is my situation. I'm not an audiophile, but I do my best to purchase quality items that I can take care of for years to come. I inherited a 10+ year-old 120w Sony 12" sub-woofer over the summer and it's just not cutting it. The lions share of the sound is coming from movies, about 70%. The remaining 30% is going to be from karaoke use.


Now I have a nice set of PA speakers for my karaoke playing...but I was hoping to utilize my upgrade sub-woofer for both a boost to my movies and a nice layer added to the low end for our karaoke. My budget is in the range of $500-1000.


Currently I've had my eyes on the Definitive Technology SC4k and SC6k. I really don't know my options, but I guess I fall into the "budget" category. I could really use some direction here and would appreciate some feedback based on the intended use (karaoke being the concern).


The room is 23x18 and is not in a basement. Sub placement is limited...with the only space being somewhere beneath the TV or possibly in a corner to the side of the TV (depending on size of the sub-woofer).


Thanks,


--Ivy4
 

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DT subs are typically overpriced for what you get. I suggest looking at the following:


Power Sound Audio

Rythmik

HSU


All of these manufacturers make subs within your budget that would blow away that DT sub.
Quote:
The room is 23x18 and is not in a basement.

Assuming 8' ceilings, that's 3312cu.ft. I would recommend a single XS30 from PSA (just a bit over your budget), with the option to add another in the future.


Alternately, you could get 2 Klipsch RW-12Ds from NewEgg for around $600 (they are on sale for ~$300 on a regular basis). Even 3 wouldn't be overkill in a room that size. The benefits of multiple subs are smoothing of room modes and a smoother bass response across a wider area.
Quote:
Sub placement is limited...with the only space being somewhere beneath the TV or possibly in a corner to the side of the TV

Corner placement is best for increased output, but only sometimes provides the best frequency response or sound.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the quick response!


I never thought about getting two sub-woofers at a lower RMS wattage and didn't even think about the benefit of generating the smoother coverage area. Those Klipsch RW-12D's look like a steal at $600 for a pair (and on the lower end of my budget too). I think I have enough space to fit both relatively easily.


I checked the PSA xs30 and it's too big. I could consider the PSA xs15 though...
 

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I've got 2 XS15s and love 'em.
 

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being that 70% of your listening will be movies i would steer away from sealed subs in a room that large. ported xv15's or 2-3 of them klipsch rw-12d's will be what ya want for that deep 18-30hz bass extension. if your geared towards mainly music with mid bass in mind then i would say the xs15 or xs30.
 

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While some prefer ported subs for movies, I am not one of those people.



I prefer the tighter, more controlled bass from the sealed subs. And, believe me, watching the first Batman/Bane fight scene in TDKR is a literal kick-in-the-chest - I love that kinda bass in my movies!



Not knocking ported subs at all....to each their own.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P  /t/1467958/replacing-a-sub-need-some-guidance-please#post_23197039


While some prefer ported subs for movies, I am not one of those people.



I prefer the tighter, more controlled bass from the sealed subs. And, believe me, watching the first Batman/Bane fight scene in TDKR is a literal kick-in-the-chest - I love that kinda bass in my movies!



Not knocking ported subs at all....to each their own.

you know thats a excellent point and i probably shouldnt of commented since i have never owned a sealed sub for home audio. i always did prefer sealed subs in car audio. im starting to wonder if I should of stuck with a xs30 and added another down the road. although these xv15's are not like any typical ported sub i have herd...they have next to no port noise, roll off quick and i love where its tuned, that deep thunder is amazing!!
 

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I guess I'm just the opposite - I've never actually owned a ported sub, only heard other guy's. And, I have most definitely never heard a PSA ported sub - I'm sure they are amazing!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P  /t/1467958/replacing-a-sub-need-some-guidance-please#post_23197104


I guess I'm just the opposite - I've never actually owned a ported sub, only heard other guy's. And, I have most definitely never heard a PSA ported sub - I'm sure they are amazing!

indeed...unlike any ported sub i have herd. i had a friend over tonight and he was amazed how tight and clean they sounded with no port noise.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivy4  /t/1467958/replacing-a-sub-need-some-guidance-please#post_23196963


My budget is in the range of $500-1000.


---snip---


Those Klipsch RW-12D's look like a steal at $600 for a pair (and on the lower end of my budget too). I think I have enough space to fit both relatively easily.


---snip---


I really don't know my options, but I guess I fall into the "budget" category. I could really use some direction here and would appreciate some feedback based on the intended use (karaoke being the concern).

In the case of karaoke, a case of beer, a couple of large pizzas and an eight inch sub should feed that party's needs.



Based on your above, my recommendation would be to buy two or three Klipsch, RW-12d's, a sound meter, a USB measuring microphone and download a freeware copy of "Room EQ Wizard" and learn how to properly integrate the two (or three) RW-12d's into your room's acoustics.


If you're really just wanting to keep it simple which is to buy and place a couple of subs in your room to turn on, stretch your budget a bit, buy two Rythmik, LV12R subs and to a point, I'm sure you'll be happy.


Based on your above, I would like to see you buy from Newegg, while on sale, three Klipsch, RW-12d's and learn about room measuring gear so you can successfully integrate these three subs into your room's acoustics. Three on sale RW-12d subwoofers from Newegg, a USB microphone and sound level meter, should be just a bit more than the max of your $1,000.00 budget. If really tight on the cash, buy the three subs which are within your stated budget, hooked them up, learn about getting the best out of them with basic AVR and subwoofer controls, all with an eye on buying and learning about room measuring capabilities in the near future.


By defraying the cost of the room measuring gear, with three subs as your base, you'll be starting out right as opposed to being dissatisfied and finding the need to add more subwoofers to get what you want, killer bass sound.


Doing what's recommended in my above, in my opinion, from the gate, will give you what you're asking for.


Hope the above helps in your quest for answers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ  /t/1467958/replacing-a-sub-need-some-guidance-please#post_23198377


You guys do realize you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a blind test, right?

Which is a very good reason why one should not participate in blind studies.



-
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Update!


I did pick up two of the Klipsch RW-12d's from newegg and they sound fantastic...depending on where I stand in the room



I must have the world's worst room for acoustics because I've moved these two babies to each corner and anywhere in between along the front wall and the only place they sound great is when your standing anywhere along the right side wall no matter where they are positioned at the front. Very frustrating. I can try re-directing them in some ugly fashion like flipping them around if that would help somehow...but man does that thing produce bass..I just wish I could hear it on the left or middle part of my room




edit: By the way the bass is by FAR the heaviest in the front right corner of my room...and I just so happen to have a built in corner hutch/shelf thing there that's located about halfway up the wall leaving about 4 feet of space under and a foot above it. Is this messing with the acoustics in my room?


For example, right now I have the sub-woofer powered 75% and if I stand in that corner I'm pretty sure my organs are vibrating and my neighbors are calling the police on that side of my house. If I stay along that right side wall it's heavy (but less than the corner) and as I shift to the center of the room it's not heavy at all. I could probably sell tickets to my friends to stand in that corner right now while they listen to music and turn a profit on the sub-woofer.
 

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That's room acoustics.


If I raise the sound level meter a foot above my head, the sound pressure increases 3dB and if I measure where my wife sits, the sound pressure increases 6dB. I would write a law for Murphy that says, the largest null will always sit dead on the MLP. Terrible, I know. My wife and I finally came to an agreement that for movies, because it's so loud in her chair compared to where I sit four feet away, we'll change seating locations as I'm being robbed and she doesn't want any part of what I'm being robbed of; the full, deep, loud bass we all crave in this forum.


The point, you may have to move your MLP come movie time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So I guess the next question becomes how can I attempt to improve on this situation because I'm pretty sure this room can handle more than a whopping 2 square feet of awesome bass. It's like that corner has absorbed all my bass and it's holding it hostage. I'll tear those shelves/hutch out of their this weekend if it would improve the situation lol.


What about a bass trap in that corner? I guess the trap wouldn't really help redirect the bass...
 

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The WAF won't allow us the benefit of room treatments. Most here will swear positive allegiance to room treatments. Due to the WAF, I've had to resort to mechanical DSP's to improve the situation so I'm not a good one to ask regarding room treatment placement.


In your case, have you tried the "sub-crawl?" The sub crawl is where you place the sub in your main listening position, and crawl around on the floor, listening for best locations to place the sub. Big following here for this solution.


Another location solution is three subs place asymmetrically around the room. As an example, one in a corner, one two thirds the way down the same long wall and a third one on the opposite wall placed near the seating position. Again, in our case, the WAF kicks in so I'm not able to place the subs in the fashion I suggest.
 

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Like Beeman said, you need to experiment with placement more. I see you only tried placing the subs "up front", you need to expand your placement options to include the sides and/or back of the room as well.


If you can't get smooth response with creative placement of your duals, the only answer is more subs.
 
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