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Other than the fact that the 4500 requires a lifetime fee, are there any real differences between a 4000 and 4500 model. If I could still get a 4000 model, should I do so?
 

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So far, we know of NOTHING that would make a 4000 any more or less desirable than a 4500, unless the supposed Amazon lifetime subscription at no cost on the 4500 really works.
 

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I'm not sure if we know for sure that the new code will enable the modem on the 4000 models. Having the modem enabled makes the unit more attractive to more users.
 

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According to SonicBlue, the modem will be enabled on all 4000 units with the new firmware, making the 40x0 units and the 4500's identical. I think this was more of a marketing move than anything else. Getting the units into the hands of retailers is easier to sell, and this way SonicBlue makes sure they get $250 on each unit, so the retailers can discount all they want and SB still has, at a minimum, a set margin.


Now, if they screw up all the units by disabling features with the new firmware, that's an entirely different topic. But all the 4000 and 4500 units should be the same after the firware upgrade.
 

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So it's official that the 4k series will have their modems activated? I'm planning to buy from amazon, and the higher up front price of the 4k is nicer because of the 10% off coupons that are floating around for amazon these days. I don't anticipate using the modem, but I am going to be moving soon and it would be nice to have the modem there as a last resort. It's probably worth the extra $25 to me.


This is assuming that the 4k units are still in production, and that Amazon gets some more in stock. Anyone know if the 4k series is being discontinued/removed from Amazon?
 

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SB had previously announced that the 4000 series would be end-of-lifed with the introduction of the 4500; as of yesterday, they're no longer available from SB's website, and at least one person who had ordered a 4040 during the "will be available in early June" period, actually got a 4504.
 

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I have a 4040 on order from Amazon, I'll let you know if they change that out for a 4504. When I talked to the guy at SB (yes, I actually called) he said, without exception that the two were identical in hardware and that the modem will be activated when they update the firmware on the 4000's.


Personally I'm hoping to get a 4040 so I can upgrade the HD before they update the firmware and someone has to re-invent that wheel.


The guy at SB did say if I placed an order on SB's site (this was last week) that I'd get a 4500 rather than a 4000 series, but he wasn't sure about Amazon's order.
 

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I ordered my 4040 last week from Amazon and received the unit on Friday. Came with the usual set of cables plus a phone cord!
 

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About the only real differences between the two units are:


1) You buy a subscription with the 4500 (but it costs $250 less, so it comes out the same).


2) The modem is installed and enabled.


3) It will be sold through retail channels.



The programming changes seem minimal.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by rayw69


This is assuming that the 4k units are still in production, and that Amazon gets some more in stock. Anyone know if the 4k series is being discontinued/removed from Amazon?
I am the person jtl mentioned. Ordered 4040 from SB on May 5 when listed out of stock and amazon had listed as unavailable. When I called after a week, I was told the 4040 was no longer produced and I could either upgrade to the 4080 which they still had in stock or get the 4504. I chose the latter and received it last Monday.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by themarshall


Now, if they screw up all the units by disabling features with the new firmware, that's an entirely different topic. But all the 4000 and 4500 units should be the same after the firmware upgrade.
I received a 4504 Monday because I waited too long to order the 4040 and they ran out of stock (wasn't available on Amazon for weeks either). Neither ReplayPC or SwapDV works on the 4504-- so folks should be aware that when SB does the firmware upgrade making the 4000 series equivalent to the 4500 series, the usual apps for transfer will not work until the great gods of video do necessary patches to make them run again. Translated, I would have everything across to your PC that you want to have there as your unit could get pretty congested for a bit depending on how difficult the work around is. Selfishly, I am glad we will all be in the same boat as was bummed that I didn't order sooner and get a 4040.


Regards,

Dave
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by themarshall
...Personally I'm hoping to get a 4040 so I can upgrade the HD before they update the firmware and someone has to re-invent that wheel.
I don't imagine there is much chance 4.3 will have any effect on upgrading. Even the most locked-up-tight TiVo's still allow capacity upgrades. I don't see SB doing anything intentional to foil it. Of course toots and FlipFlop will always reinvent the wheel if needed but I wouldn't worry about that one.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by KenL
I don't imagine there is much chance 4.3 will have any effect on upgrading. Even the most locked-up-tight TiVo's still allow capacity upgrades. I don't see SB doing anything intentional to foil it. Of course toots and FlipFlop will always reinvent the wheel if needed but I wouldn't worry about that one.
While this is true of TiVo receivers, TiVo does not try to make money selling over priced disk space ($300 for 40GB, $1,300 for 280GB) and that is a big part of Sonic Blue's revenue model. I would not be surprised to see them make both swapDV and capacity upgrades no longer possible.


/carmi
 

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majortom, if you look at the same prices and capacities a different way, it doesn't look like a bad deal... it's all how things are explained! :)


The 40 hour and 320 hour Replays (with lifetime service) are:


$ 699 - $17.48 per hour of recording time (40 hours total)

$ 1,999 - $6.25 per hour of recording time (320 hours total)



The current Tivo Series2 (with lifetime service) are:


$ 548 - $13.70 per hour of recording time (40 hours total)

$ 648 - $10.80 per hour of recording time (60 hours total)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah
majortom, if you look at the same prices and capacities a different way, it doesn't look like a bad deal... it's all how things are explained! :)


The 40 hour and 320 hour Replays (with lifetime service) are:


$ 699 - $17.48 per hour of recording time (40 hours total)

$ 1,999 - $6.25 per hour of recording time (320 hours total)



The current Tivo Series2 (with lifetime service) are:


$ 548 - $13.70 per hour of recording time (40 hours total)

$ 648 - $10.80 per hour of recording time (60 hours total)
Bretstah, my point is simple, Sonic Blue makes much more money on the 320 hour system than they do on the 40 hour system. They charge more than $1,300 for drives that I can buy retail for $400. They have every reason to prevent upgrades.


/carmi
 

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Hmmm . . . just wondering . . . I understand that with the new handshaking that SwapDV can't pull files from the new 4500s, but can the new 4500s pull files (i.e., stream) from SwapDV?


I assume that the same relationships are true between the 4000s w/o the new firmware and the 4500s as well?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by majortom
...They have every reason to prevent upgrades.
Oh just as much incentive as they had last time around when the margin was identical?


SB is just not about things like insulting gratuitous extra efforts on "BoatAnchorMode" or in trying to offend or screw the end users. Of course after all that's happened with TiVo I can understand majortom's cynicism. I don't know, but perhaps if he ever owned a SB Replay, he possibly might get a better feel for what the company is all about? ;)
 

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I agree that it could make some sense for them to prevent upgrades, if doing so would cause an increase in sales of the higher capacity units. Lots of factors to figure out on that one... Someone willing to spend $700 may not be willing to spend $2000, so they'd lose a sale.
 
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