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Discussion Starter #1
Just a FYI to anyone else that might be having problems with replays [not] seeing each other...


Since adding my 3rd replay, I had been battling this problem. it was entirely random, but usually didn't work and rarely could a single replay actually see both other units. I had a suspecion that other upnp devices/software on the network were causing problems, but now after about 2 weeks of 100% flawless replay sharing I am convinced.


I set the replays up on their own private subnet on top of my regular network (basically a vlan without hard specified vlans) They also have their own router/gateway on this network, and the main network has a static route into it so I can use DVA and such from outside that dedicated net. The second network isn't natted, just a standard routed class C network.


anyway, the results have been perfect so far, I haven't had a single time in the last two weeks where they weren't able to see each other. My only complaint is that two of the replay's can't always pull the guide from the 160gb replay, but that is an acknowledged problem if you get too many shows on one box. DVA will no longer auto detect them since they are no longer part of the broadcast domain. I'm guessing the replay photo software will no longer work since you can't input the device IP, it has to detect it.
 

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Is the proposed solution to simply change the subnet address on the ReplayTV's to something OTHER than what the PC's on the LAN are using? I'm not quite sure I'm following his method well enough to figure out if I'd want to try it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nded
Is the proposed solution to simply change the subnet address on the ReplayTV's to something OTHER than what the PC's on the LAN are using?
No.


The idea is to "nest" / hide the ReplayTVs in their own SEPARATE subnet, with their own Router, Gateway, (DHCP Server!).


For example: If your current LAN has everything on 192.168.0.xxx:
  • Plug a second Router into one of your current LAN ports
  • Give it's WAN side a 192.168.0.xxx address
  • Give it's LAN side a 192.168.1.xxx address
  • Plug your ReplayTVs into Router #2
  • Give your ReplayTVs 192.168.1.xxx addresses, Gateway equal to Router #2
  • (Maybe more...?)

This is a bit too drastic for me, since I once played around with subnetting some laptops on a wireless network. While the laptops COULD access the Internet, LAN 0 couldn't access LAN 1. I started researching ROUTING TABLES, but lost interest after a while.


I wonder how "plain-vanilla" IVS would work?


I wonder how IVSmagic would react?


Maybe you'll try it and let everyone know! ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
the problem was more or less all the time. after adding the 3rd replay i was NEVER able to use all three as intended, I would say that at least 50% of the time the main replay wouldn't even detect the other replays at all.


yup, read all the stuff regarding replay and upnp. I isolated one piece of software that was the probable cause (Simplecenter for my OmnfiFi DMP1 hard drive car audio mp3 player, it syncs wirelessly at night to a server program on the pc using upnp.) Disabling that and eventually all the replays would see each other, but it usually took a reboot to do that. once the program was started it would only be a matter of minutes before they were invisible again.


I recently also moved DVA up to that IP address space without problems. when dva wasn't in there the replays wouldn't see it obviously, now with it in the same broadcast domain it works as intended.


Currently I have three physical routers on my network, with the capability of adding virtual routers to any of those if I need to. (2 wrt54g's and 1 wrt54gs, all running ddwrt v23final)


the tricky part is that the second network is virtual only, it uses all the same switches and cables that the main network does. it really seems unusual when you plug the wan port of a router into the routers own switch, but it works! yeah you have to make sure the routing tables are set up correctly and make sure the none-core routers don't nat, they should route only.


once it is set up it really is very transparent from my point of view. i just forward ivs ports to the appropriate 192.168.1.x address instead of .0.



anyway, it sounds a little extreme but if you are having troubles with replays not seeing each other I highly suggest it. you can easily try it out without buying any additional equipment, just set them up with their own ip address space outside your normal ip space. if it works for you you can find some very inexpensive routers. (without the router your replay won't be able to talk to the outside world to get guide updates and such.)
 

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[My questions were directed to nded, but thanks for answering them and providing more insight! :) ]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkramer
the problem was more or less all the time. after adding the 3rd replay i was NEVER able to use all three as intended, I would say that at least 50% of the time the main replay wouldn't even detect the other replays at all...
This problem *HAS* to be more prevalent than currently "acknowledged" (by the LACK of message traffic concerning it). :confused:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkramer
...yup, read all the stuff regarding replay and upnp. I isolated one piece of software that was the probable cause (Simplecenter for my OmnfiFi DMP1 hard drive car audio mp3 player, it syncs wirelessly at night to a server program on the pc using upnp.) Disabling that and eventually all the replays would see each other, but it usually took a reboot to do that. once the program was started it would only be a matter of minutes before they were invisible again...
uPnP INTERFERENCE is the key! [Pushing me harder and harder to install and learn how to use Ethereal!!! :eek: ]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkramer
...I recently also moved DVA up to that IP address space without problems. when dva wasn't in there the replays wouldn't see it obviously, now with it in the same broadcast domain it works as intended...
Yes. But, my DVArchive Server is also my PRINT Server and my MP3 Server and my FILE Server... Will all of my LAN 0 Workstations still be able to access it if I move it to LAN 1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkramer
...Currently I have three physical routers on my network, with the capability of adding virtual routers to any of those if I need to. (2 wrt54g's and 1 wrt54gs, all running ddwrt v23final)


the tricky part is that the second network is virtual only, it uses all the same switches and cables that the main network does. it really seems unusual when you plug the wan port of a router into the routers own switch, but it works! yeah you have to make sure the routing tables are set up correctly and make sure the none-core routers don't nat, they should route only.


once it is set up it really is very transparent from my point of view. i just forward ivs ports to the appropriate 192.168.1.x address instead of .0.
This is where you *REALLY* got my attention! :eek:


I was aware of QoS, and the ability of the Linksys WRT54x family (via 3rd-party firmware) to do some "neat" things. But, not until BassKozz started asking numerous questions, posting "interesting" screenshots, and my discovering that Linksys had changed the OS on the WRT54x v5.0 to VxWorks (like the Replay) from Linux and thus NONE of the existing 3rd-party firmware developments would work, did I get enough interest to run out (to EIGHT different stores) to get a v4.0! :eek:


So, please explain more about "Virtual Routers" - I'll GOOGLE it after I post this - but, using the SAME switches and cables for LAN 1 as LAN 0?!? That's new to me.


[I just added a "dedicated CAT5 line" between my Gateway6400 DVArchive (Print, File, MP3) Server and my Dell400SC "Video" Workstation for 1000Mbps NICs on 192.168.1.xxx. The 400SC has it onboard; the 6400 has 2 64-bit PCI slots; so, I'm researching whether to just get a 32-bit PCI for it, or spend more money for the 64-bit, but I digress...]


Here's a diagram of my "recent" LAN: > > > Intermittently Losing Connectivity Until I 243-Zones/17...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nded
I have the "problem" about once every 2 weeks - current response is to reboot all of the ReplayTV's and blame it on the children/wife that reported the situation (if I find it on my own I blame the dogs).
Yeah. But none of that FIXES it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nded
...I have read those recent theads and I am contemplating action on a few items there....
Which items caught your interest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nded
...I have WiRNS , IVSmagic, and multiple instances of DVArchive happily coexisting.


Technically speaking I have 3 routers on the LAN, but I am only using 1 (Vonage LinkSys RT31P2) as a true router. Router 2 (LinkSys BEFSR41) is being used as a bastardized hub to serve the Replays (crossover cable used to connect LAN side to rest of LAN, all Replays, DVArchive, and IVSmagic live off this device - about 1TB shared storage), Router 3 is a second Vonage RT31P2 (I have 3 Vonage phone lines). DHCP is not enabled in any of the routers (call me an IP Address control freak.....). About 20 different IP devices on the LAN on a good day.....
Try:
  1. Disabling uPnP on ALL the Routers

    .
  2. Disabling uPnP on ALL WiRNS instances

    .
  3. Rebooting ALL the ReplayTVs (and probably the Routers)

I hate to say it, but disabling uPnP on my 2 instances of WiRNS made a difference.


I was also "blown away" by the IMMEDIATE (aka *NO* errors or retries!) improvement on overnight DVArchive downloads when I disabled the DVArchive Servers.


I realize that Gerry and Ryan put a lot of long hours into their code, and the fact that I "seemed to be" the *ONLY* one experiencing problems lead me to believe that I did indeed have either hardware problems, or had something set up incorrectly.


I'm really excited about this "Virtual Routers" concept! :)


BTW, unless your LinkSys BEFSR41 is a very old model, most current equipment "autosenses" on whether it needs to be an "Uplink" Port or a "Normal" Port (i.e. you may not need the crossover cable).


Also, it's acting as a "switch", not a "hub". I put an old 10Mbps hub in between 1 ReplayTV and the rest of my LAN and it KILLED streaming completely! It was the *ONLY* device and the hub was reporting collisions - but, according to all the documentation that I've read so far, Ethereal would need a hub for me to plug a spare laptop into to monitor JUST the data flow between that one ReplayTV and the rest of the LAN.


(to be continued... ;) )
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand
Yeah. But none of that FIXES it...


Which items caught your interest?
Darn near all of it (DVArchive skins/shells, New Weather Script, No Dups......

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand
Try:
  1. Disabling uPnP on ALL the Routers

    .
  2. Disabling uPnP on ALL WiRNS instances

    .
  3. Rebooting ALL the ReplayTVs (and probably the Routers)

I hate to say it, but disabling uPnP on my 2 instances of WiRNS made a difference.
Already killed all the uPnP stuff on the routers and WiRNS last month (come to think of it, things have seemed better since I did that)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand
I was also "blown away" by the IMMEDIATE (aka *NO* errors or retries!) improvement on overnight DVArchive downloads when I disabled the DVArchive Servers.
If I disable the SERVER, doesn't that prevent the network ReplayTV's from watching shows in the libraries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand
BTW, unless your LinkSys BEFSR41 is a very old model, most current equipment "autosenses" on whether it needs to be an "Uplink" Port or a "Normal" Port (i.e. you may not need the crossover cable).
We're talking very old, one of the first out of the factory. Besides, I find making CAT5e crossover cables manually to be very theraputic at times.....
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nded
Darn near all of it (DVArchive skins/shells, New Weather Script, No Dups......
You're on MOST of the ReplayTV-related forums several times a day - how'd you miss this "stuff"? :confused:
  • The DVArchive Custom Web Templates have be out ~2 years.
  • The No_Dups and Weather Scripts have been out ~9 days. [Are you volunteering?]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nded
...Already killed all the uPnP stuff on the routers and WiRNS last month (come to think of it, things have seemed better since I did that)
Who's going to tell Ryan? :eek:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nded
...If I disable the SERVER, doesn't that prevent the network ReplayTV's from watching shows in the libraries?
Yeah, well, everything good usually also has a downside to it. ;)


But, why don't you try the "experiment" for at least a few days -
  • Do you have daily scheduled downloads?
  • Do they ever fail?
  • Do they fail with strings of "garbage characters" reported in the log?
  • What "rate" are you using? I went from [email protected] to [email protected] and *STILL* got the errors. Stopping the DVA Server, I'm now back up to [email protected] (the ReplayTV gets *VERY* sluggish if you try to use the Remote when the download rate is too high).


    With verification of the "problem" from more users, I'd like to request Gerry to either fix the problem *OR* add the ability to schedule the DVA Server to shutdown (during the download periods).
Quote:
Originally Posted by nded
...Besides, I find making CAT5e crossover cables manually to be very theraputic at times.....
Do you have a spool? I "may" need one 50' CAT5e crossover cable when I get my second 1000Mbps NIC. ;)
 

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^^^BUMP^^^


(rkramer hasn't been back to further explain his new solution... :( )


Does anyone else understand setting up "Virtual Routers", "Virtual LANs" and "Routing Tables" using the Linksys WRT54x series of routers?


I did some GOOGLing, but haven't come across a "Newbie's Guide to VLANs" yet.


It's a shame that more people aren't interested - I'm *SURE* that there are *MANY* folks with the "disappearing ReplayTV" problem... :confused:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkramer
...Currently I have three physical routers on my network, with the capability of adding virtual routers to any of those if I need to. (2 wrt54g's and 1 wrt54gs, all running ddwrt v23final)


the tricky part is that the second network is virtual only, it uses all the same switches and cables that the main network does. it really seems unusual when you plug the wan port of a router into the routers own switch, but it works! yeah you have to make sure the routing tables are set up correctly and make sure the none-core routers don't nat, they should route only.


once it is set up it really is very transparent from my point of view. i just forward ivs ports to the appropriate 192.168.1.x address instead of .0.



anyway, it sounds a little extreme but if you are having troubles with replays not seeing each other I highly suggest it. you can easily try it out without buying any additional equipment, just set them up with their own ip address space outside your normal ip space. if it works for you you can find some very inexpensive routers. (without the router your replay won't be able to talk to the outside world to get guide updates and such.)
 

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Discussion Starter #12

Does a
Quote:
nyone else understand setting up "Virtual Routers", "Virtual LANs" and "Routing Tables" using the Linksys WRT54x series of routers?
sorry, got caught up with other things for awhile...


in my situation I've got one physical layer 1/2 network, everything is on the same switch fabric (not the same switch per say, just the same switch network). vlan support on the wrt's isn't great, plus I have a couple gig switches that don't talk vlan, so i'm not using that.


anyway, to have a different subnet you need a router as the gateway device if you want devices in that subnet to talk to anything outside. wrt's have the ability to grab another virtual IP on their lan side and listen on that subnet, and then act on a gateway for that subnet in addition to their own native one.
 

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Hi,

I have one WRT54G upstairs as my main router using 192.168.1.100~149 on subnet 255.255.255.0. I have another WRT54G downstairs setup in client mode using 192.168.1.150~255 on subnet 255.255.255.128.


2 replay tvs and one dvarchive computer see each other upstairs.

Can you give me any suggestions on getting upstairs units to see downstairs unit that is on the other subnet? and vice versa


BTW. both are running DD-WRT v23 and all units are connecting to the mothership


everything is currently hardwired except this one unit running as a bridge and a dell laptop occasionally.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand
With verification of the "problem" from more users, I'd like to request Gerry to either fix the problem *OR* add the ability to schedule the DVA Server to shutdown (during the download periods).
Well, unless I have steps to duplicate it, I can't fix it. I simply don't have enough time to do all the detective work for folks.


And to be honest, I still am fairly sure you're seeing a network problem and turning the server off is just masking the problem. Garabage characters mean something corrupting packets (good chance it may be a network driver onthe computer). DVAs server and downloaders are entirely different chunks of code and do not directly interact with each other.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gduprey
Well, unless I have steps to duplicate it, I can't fix it. I simply don't have enough time to do all the detective work for folks.
And I personally don't expect you to!


I ONLY report BUGs that I can readily repeat. (Most of the time, I just ask you what a certain error or warning in the Error Log means and what could cause it.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gduprey
...And to be honest, I still am fairly sure you're seeing a network problem and turning the server off is just masking the problem. Garabage characters mean something corrupting packets (good chance it may be a network driver onthe computer). DVAs server and downloaders are entirely different chunks of code and do not directly interact with each other.
I *REALLY* wanted to believe you on that, but I've replaced:
  1. Switches
  2. Router
  3. CAT5 between ReplayTV and DVA Server, changing some ReplayTVs from going through 3 switches to going through only 1.
  4. NIC in one DVA Server (4 Instances of DVA running on 3 PCs)

and *STILL* have intermittent problems.


Now, disabling the DVA Server consistently stops the "garbage characters" problem for me. I haven't reported it to you because I'm waiting for someone else to try to duplicate it. Slack thanked me for this "golden tidbit" (or whatever he called it), but I don't know if he TRIED it yet.


IF my network driver is a problem, don't the DVA Server and the DVA Downloader both have to go through it? I'm willing to try any suggestions. That's why I'm interested in rkramer's VLAN - but, he needs to "dumb it down" a bit more into A, B, C steps for me to implement it (I understand the theory - now I need to write the DD-WRT scripts).
 

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I'm not at all doubting your workaround, just saying I know that the downloading subsystem and the UPNP and server subsystem has no overlap/intersection and it's incredibly unlikely (I won't say impossible, but it's close) that one can affect the other in DVA.


Corruption is the part that is more worriesome because I'm very confident that it can't be DVA (DVA only reads from it's buffers, it never writes/modifies a buffer of data read from the network), so that means either the network stack, the network driver or possibly a previously unknown and obviously very rare bug in the ReplayTV firmware (my leanings right now, given the thoroughness of your diagnostics to date, is toward the later).


Gerry
 
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