ReplayTV screws early adopters while TiVo ships new gear - bad timing!

While I sympathize with some of your feelings, I personally feel that posts with headings like "Replay screws..." will do nothing to further your cause.


While you may feel that Replay should be doing more for you, they are under no obligation to give you a damn thing. When you buy a Replay unit it is a one shot deal, you pay the price - you get the unit. If you buy into any technology early, you will pay more to get less - that's how it works. If you bought a DVD player a year ago it would have cost you about $500, now you can get a player with the same features (maybe even more features) for under $200.


If your goal here is to appeal to the Replay guys to do you some favors, you may want to re-think the way you word your posts to this forum.


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Later,

Rob.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/

Quote:
I agree 100%. If you purchase a 3060, are you going to come back in a year or two demanding a discount on a new 3120? When did it become expected that early adopters are entitled to some preferential treatment just because they bought into a product early on? ReplayTV has gone above and beyond the call by offering this upgrade discount.


Yes, they said that they would be offering expansion via Firewire, and yes, that announcement most likely influenced a lot of purchases. The problem is that this is such an infant industry, and it's not just ReplayTV who is calling the shots. With investments from TV networks and movie studios, there are going to have to be some compromises, and the elimination or addition of a feature is inevitable.


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-Jim


ReplayTV: The only way to watch Iron Chef!

I agree that "screws" is a bit harsh, but Replay did make the final decisions (regardless of the industry). In my simple view of the world, people and companies need to take responsibility for their actions. If we, the consumer public, let companies and industries tell us what we want and accept it, then Replay made the right decision. If we feel that Replay did something wrong then we should be allowed to voice that opinion. Further, if we feel that Replay's remedy to their acknowledged mistake is insulting then we should be able to say so. Of course, if you think that Replay is doing just fine and has done nothing wrong, you should be able to say so. Just start your own thread next time (possibly titled "Replay is so great to its customers"). You can include text of various examples of how Replay gave you a great product, charged you fairly, and even was courteous to have a local number for you to dial. The bottom line is that Replay made a mistake; whether or not they provide a reasonable remedy is entirely up to us. No one is declaring any obligation or right. People simply want to change the situation by voicing their opinions.


As for a claim that a 3060 allows you to get a 3120 cheaper, well again that is up to us. If the market demands a "loyalty" rebate then one will be offered. Of course, there is even less ground for complaint there, but we are in a free market and consequently are entitled to request anything. Of course, the expectations must be that Replay can do whatever it wants--even drive itself out of business.


As so many people seem to forget, we are in charge. Despite all of the talk to the contrary, the consumer will decide what stays and what goes. Aside from cases of monopolies, consumer demand drives consumer markets. For example, if we demand cheaper music by not buying high priced CD's then more and more artists might publish their own music. But the consumers must act. Many people today feel that "industry" is in charge, but I guarantee that if no one bought a Replay 200x and spoke kindly about it then Replay would have eventually died (like the movie Waterworld). Currently, I'm boycotting MLB, the NFL, the NBA, and the products produced by members of the RIAA. It looks that soon I'll be boycotting products produced by members of the MPAA if things don't soon change.


In the end, we shall see what happens. Because of the small numbers of 200x owners I don't believe that much will change, but I want to make as much noise as possible.


Cheers


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ReplayTV -- The only one that had firewire...

Quote:
I have a lot to say re:hacked Tivo's but that's for another thread.


RE: The Pause Advertising.. I'll say this.. your're overblowing it's significance. Do I care that after X amount of pausing the TV will display an AD? Heck no! Especially if it provides revenue for ReplayTV to keep writing code and innovating. What if it wasn't an AD but was some content tailored to your needs? Maybe trivia, news, horiscopes, weather.. think outside the box for a minute.. Maybe a message to your kids that you put in from the myreplaytv.com web page? Heck.. there are tons of options there..




[This message has been edited by GadgetGuy (edited 10-10-2000).]

If y'all complaining about the "screw" verbiage had bothered to read the links I included to the two previous threads, you'll see that the initial post was quite polite and Replay replied with no information of consequence, indeed failing to return my telephone calls as promised.


Those who want to have companies make promises and not deliver, feel free to stay 100% polite forever, let's see how far that'll get you. Would politeness have shut down the evil that was DivX? I think not. While Replay is an order of magnitude less objectionable than DivX, they still have broken promises and deserve to be taken to task.


I'll bet I never get a Replay reply on this thread at all. You might say it's because of the title, but you'd be wrong, since they never gave a reply of substance to the polite thread either.


I'm going to do my utmost to ensure that other consumers know about Replay's broken promises.

I agree with Rob whole heartedly.


I bought a 27" Toshiba TV 5yrs ago, When they came out with the 36" I never expected a loyalty rebate even tho most things I buy are Toshiba.


ReplayTV IS showing their loyalty to us early adopters who have shown them our loyalty.


Thanks ReplayTV.


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If only she could be paused like my ReplayTV.

Quote:
You forgot to add the link to the polite message, so I missed it, I just saw the links to the "Will ReplayTV make good with early adopters re: 3060 upgrade?" and "Replay screws early adopters" messages.


You seem to make the assumption that just because you demand something, whether asked politely or not, that you should get it. I hate to have to break this to you but that's not the way things work. It's great that you were an early adopter of ReplayTV and it's a pity that you feel so bad about it now. If you feel that it's your birthright to have a free upgrade to a brand new 3060, well you have the right to feel that way, but I wouldn't recommend holding your breath while you wait for your new unit to arrive!


If the main reason that you selected Replay over TiVo was because of the promised firewire connection, well those *******s at Replay have welshed on that promise, so I guess it's time to sell that old crumby 2004 unit, and get yourself a brand spanking new TiVo, as you would have got one of them if the firewire promise hadn't been thrown out there, right? I say stick it to Replay where it hurts, vote with your feet, show them how you really feel, sell that sucka, that'll show them!


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Later,

Rob.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/

You know, you get too close to a corporate mindset, and you lose the ability to think for yourself.


The ability to hack a TiVo has not hurt their sales. Most people see the existence of an upgrade path as being preferable to the total absence of one, even if they never avail themselves of it (ref: "Overdrive" sockets on PCs). And, the part that corporate Replay mentality wants to overlook is the multiplier effect that this has.


A friend bought a TiVo solely because of its hackability. It was hacked less than a week after purchase. She's the type to be fiercely loyal to the brand that she knows something about. She's also the type who others seek out for advice on purchase decisions. I can tell you what box she will be recommending, and the reasons will have nothing to do with features, because she'll speak with great bravado about TiVo vs. Replay without having the slightest idea what a Replay can do. All of this just because she could upgrade.


Taking a less extreme example, I still like the Replay better, but if someone asks me what to buy, I may be liable to suggest TiVo for three reasons:


1) If the person has the ability, upgrade path

2) TiVo in general seems to spend more time accomodating their customers, instead of saying "You don't want to do that"

3) TiVo looks to me (right now) like it has the better chance of surviving (assuming that both TiVo and Replay don't get bought and killed by Gemstar, who seem to be in the business of buying and killing new technologies).


Right now, DVRs are being bought primarily by techies, because these are the people who tend to be early adopters, and who understand both the technology an the advantages it offers. It takes a LONG time for me to explain to "civilians" what the advantages of either box are, although after a while, they catch on. There's no question that sooner or later, everyone else will catch on. The only question is, when that happens, who will be the happy installed customer base?


So far, TiVo's winning with the Techies, largely on points that are irrelevant to the larger market. Still, it means more revenue in the short term (winning over more of the current small market), an more word of mouth in the long term. I doubt that any of the current techies who've bought TiVos for hack value are going to be running around a year from now saying "Yeah, but for normal people, the Replay is better." I do know that a lot of purchase decisions will be based on the recommendations of the nearest techie who already owns one.


But, fine, walk away from your earlier promises and rationalize your decisions to do so. I understand the legal pressures you're under to do that, and to an extent, sympathize. Just don't underestimate the effect that hackability really does have and will have on TiVo's sales.

Quote:
A.S., I totally agree with what you say, my point is that there's always at least two ways to make the same request. If you politely make your point you might just be surprised how well the Replay guys respond to your case, but if you make posts stating that you've been screwed and DEMANDING retribution then I seriously doubt that any Replay guys are going to feel inspired to take up your case. I know that if I was a Replay guy reading this thread I'd be inclined to tell Mr. Coldbrook to go "screw" himself. Of course, the Replay guys here are all to professional to ever say that in public, that's why I'm here to say it for them.


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Later,

Rob.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/

Rob,


You are right.


Cheers


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ReplayTV -- The only one that had firewire...

toots: If and when the day comes that a software upgrade disables all hacked tivo boxes because they get pressure from somewhere to do so, all of you will be the biggest losers on the planet, and we'll all be laughing so hard at you, I bet a bunch of Replay owners will die from pure itoldyousoism. Then again, if that never happens and Replay goes out of business because of the sheer number of units that Tivo was able to sell because of this hack, then the reverse will be true.


It all comes down to the famous Clint line: "You feeling lucky, punk?"

You put your money on your choice, black or red, and one of us will be the winner and the other the loser. Time will tell which it is http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif



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-=- Glenn -=-

First, I have no doubt that TiVo will break the upgrades sooner or later. Only question is when, and my bet is that it'll be after TiVo's lock on the market is complete. In the meantime, people will have the use of fairly inexpensive mega-capacity recorders. No need for laughter, they're just useful.


Second, I'd like ReplayTV to be the dominant player in this market (I'd also like them to get out of the hard drive business and back into the DVR business, but that's another issue). Laughing doesn't make this happen.


Third, I'm afraid that for all the reasons already listed, TiVo's gonna "win" this one. I certainly don't see the point for laughter here, although I'm certain that stupid dancing TiVo clown will do it for us.


Fourth, when TiVo decides to break the upgrades, the people who've done the upgrades won't be losers for several reasons, starting with the fact that they've had mega-capacity recorders all along, and ending with the distinct probability that additional hacks to break the break will be discovered. Everyone laughs there.


In the mean time, for all our jocularity, TiVo has inadvertantly found a very effective wedge in this market. Laugh it up.

Quote:
Another reason they won't be losers is that they can Undo the hack. Just take out the extra hard disk to use it elsewhere and restore the original disk. You did back up the original disk image, didn't you?


I also don't want to see a betamax/vhs repeat where the superior technology loses to superior business decisions.


karog




[This message has been edited by karog (edited 10-11-2000).]

It may be true that the hacked Tivo's get shut down in a year or two, but I'm not concerned. I can always put my original disk back in if I have to, but more likely I'll be buying the 160 hour Tivo with two tuners and whatever else they cram in for $400 bucks in a few years. And in the meantime, I'll have the use of 2 14 hour Tivos upgraded to 117 hours for under $400 each. Not a bad deal from my standpoint.


But to get back to the point, I agree Amazingly Smooth. If you're not pleased with the service or product from a company then you sure as hell should complain as much as you want. It's the same over on the Tivo forums, where a lot of zealots will stone anyone who says anything critical of the beloved Company. Both of these companies are young are need us as customers badly. Let's face it, we're *all* early adapters with this technology and we're in a unique position to help these young companies define how they do business before they become giants who can dictate the rules any way they like.

toots:


Actually that would be “Laugh while you can Monkey Boy.â€


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Eric

ReplayTV, Inc.

ReplayTV. Some televisions have all the fun
http://www.replaytv.com

First, I agree with The Robman. I'm reminded of a more trivial post where someone who bought a product felt screwed because the next batch of product would have a superior remote with more functionality, and they felt entitled to having their remote upgraded for free. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif


Now, this isn't as silly as that, but it does fall into the fact that the unit _is_ what it was when you purchased it. You can't buy "intentions"... you can speculate, but you are owed nothing. Are some peolpe upset, sure. Are they being screwed... no, and it's rude to state so.


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Amazingly Smooth, your post basically say says that that, while people are free to disagree with a post, that they shouldn't contribute to a thread they disagree with. That's wrong on so many levels. This is a forum, not a soap box.


I agree that, if you don't like the way a company does business, you should take such things into account and you should be free to state your opinion. However, there are still such a thing a manners and no one is being "screwed".


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riker,

Quote:
That's just so ridiculous. First, there's no reason why an upgrade would "disable" a hacked box. There is no reason for them to intentionally do such a thing and, from a non-intentional standpoint it's not really likly since the "upgrade" process produces the same "two drive setup" that already exists in off the shelf boxes.


Is it possible... sure, they could deny upgraders the service. They can't reasonably break the box since it is possible to restore a box to a previous state by using a backup. Why would they deny people their service? It would only result in a loss of subscription dollars.


Keep in mind that there would be plenty of ways to discourage and/or eliminate the ability to hack the units without affecting existing units. There's still no real incentive to do such a thing, but it's one more thing that says that there would be no reason to break existing upgrades.

Quote:
Keep in mind that, it's not a "one or the other" situation. There's plenty of room for both companies. This isn't "Beta vs. VHS", it's "Coke vs. Pepsi".


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Quote:
It's funny how defending someone can be called a stoning.


It seems to be a trend with some people (not anyone in particular here) that it's ok to bash a company and make just about any type of claim, but the moment someone defends a company, no matter how well they back up their point of view, they are called zealots.


If someone has something to say, fine. If they say it on a forum, they better be willing to accept that other people might post their point of view.



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"It's like living in the future."â„¢


[This message has been edited by an infinite number of monkeys (edited 10-24-2000).]



quote:

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Originally posted by toots:

Laugh it up.

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ReplayMarc: You left out "Fuzzball"


AKM3: Personally, dam all the features, dam all the upgrades, any company that has employees that publicly use Star Wars references wins my everlasting support and $$$!

Hey ReplayMarc make sure we are playing on the same Star Wars Online server when it comes out. On second thought, don't buy that game I still want new features for my Replay, and I don't see much productivity coming along if ReplayAnyone is playing SWO.




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It's great to have all this great gear. But I'd instead put all that money into software (Movies) I'd have SOMETHING TO WATCH ON ALL THIS GREAT GEAR. Doh!