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Report from NAB2003 on JVC

1574 Views 19 Replies 13 Participants Last post by kelliot, Jun 19, 2003

Don Landis

Discussion Starter · Apr 8, 2003

Saw JVC's impressive demonstration of the SX21 and their larger 150 projectors. They had them set up side by side in a large tent theater. The screens were identical so a good comparison could be made.

First, let me say that after CES show, I was quite critical of the demo of the SX21. It was suffering some major problems, JVC stated was instability due to overheating.

Monday's demo at NAB was not the same. The SX21 was quite clean and offered a very nice picture image.

In comparing the two projectors at first glance they looked identical. After about 5 minutes of viewing, I was able to observe some subtle differences.

The 150 had deeper blacks. It had better color purity, especially in the greens. This was especially noticeable on the movie trailer screen Review with solid green and white text. The 150 looked real, like I see on my CRT while the SX21 had a more yellowish look to it and the green solid screen was uneven. The blacks were a noticeable lighter gray on the SX21 while the 150 was deep and still contained picture detail.

I did not stop to discuss details of the two projectors with any rep.

All in all the SX21 in a stand alone system would look quite adequate, comparedt to the demo I saw in January. People should not be unhappy with this projector if they should decide to go with the JVC dila. But, given it's flatter look, I would not say it was as an impressive image as the Marantz DLP nor the Dwin TV3 which were my #1 and #2 choices for Image quality at CES. Of course a side by side comparison would be ideal and may change my opinion but in absence of this, all I would say right now is that JVC has gotten it's act together quite well since the fiasco at CES.

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1 - 20 of 20 Posts

Tryg

· #2 · Apr 8, 2003

Don,

Unfortunately this is another "to little, to late" story from JVC.

Two to three years ago we were ecstatic that JVC was coming out with a portable that would deliver D-ILA performance. So they developed the DLA-G3010ZG and it's performance was dismal.

A year later the changed the name calling it the DLA-DS1U . Again poor performance and now less brightness.

All the while DLP projectors are pretty much getting their act together and making improvments to the product each year. Then, just as DLP performance was about to pass the once hailed D-ILA performance JVC slaps their new breed of chip in the same projector and call it the DLA-SX21 . Finally, with the new chip they have achieved the performace they were looking for 2 years ago. Unfortunately DLP has now passed them up in to many areas.

Has JVC learned anything from this? No. They are making the same projector as they did 3 years ago but keep bumping the price up with every little change. I seams that JVC is caught in some kind of Limbo or something. They keep designing a $9k presentation projector and trying to sell it to the Home Theater crowd. DLP on the other hand has added all the niceties and such that this crowd really craves.

Sure JVC will get some sales. And I'll bet my bottom dollar they'll rework this projector and try to sell it under yet another name within a year or so. Yet in doing so they have completely destroyed a huge following of loyal D-ILA fans by continuosly failing to deliver the performance we expected and raising the prices to cover the cost of their failures.

Hey, what can I say. I WAS one of those loyal fans. When SONY or others deliver 1920 x 1080 it will be bye bye for JVC in the Home Theater market. So sad when the golden goose is sitting in front of somebody and they don't know what to do with it.

JVC this is a wake up call. Stop building the same failing projector!

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Free

· #3 · Apr 8, 2003

Being an Owner of an SX21 I can say that the projector provides a very nice image that competes well with the current crop of projectors. It does require a bit of tweaking to get the best out of it and I am convinced that most have not seen it at its best.

I would not want to go back to DLP at this point until the DLP problems are fixed, perhaps with the next generation. The Sony LCOS looks promising but for now its performance in a production model is unknown as is its release date.

W.Mayer

· #4 · Apr 8, 2003

don

when you have time please visit the christie booth.

they showing the new 2048x1080 3 chip dlp.

hope to read your rating about this projector(CP 2000 H or I)

Don Landis

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 9, 2003

I did visit the Christie booth but the main demo was the 3D theater system. That was quite impressive.

I'll have some time to visit again tomorrow so I'll check out their 2048 PJ if I can and report back.

tzucc

· #6 · Apr 9, 2003

I also don't get it. From what I saw at CEDIA in Sep last year, JVC SX-21 was by FAR and away better than any and all DLP projectors under $20K and I saw them all in pretty decent demo conditions. The JVC was being driven by the Teranex which no doubt helped, but it was by far much much better than DWIN or Marantz.

Don Landis

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 9, 2003

tzucc-

I asked JVC this question at CES-

The reason for the problem at CES was as follows-

The SX21 had very loud fan system that failed JVC marketing approval due to the noise. At CES they were using a much reduced fan system that allowed the PJ to overheat and the electronics became unstable which resulted in the geometric distortion I observed in the image as well as the luminance drifts. Nothing woulod stay calibrated for very long. It seems that the NAB SX21 has gotten this fixed because there was no engineer present to constantly tweak the ceiling hung SX21. IT just remained a good picture but I would not class it better than the Marantz and Dwin quality I saw. It was not even as perfect color as their own side by side 150. I wanted to find out if they simply put the larger and noisier fan system back in to fix the overheating - drift problems but no-one was around that knew the details.

It was noy possible in the noisy show floor environment to evaluate the fan noise so as far as I'm concerned it was not noticeable. In the home may be a different story. I just know that the demo was much better than the one at CES but still not without observable artifacts in the color purity.

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thirdkind

· #8 · Apr 9, 2003

I believe the solution to the fan noise problem was to reduce the lumen output from the original 1500 lumen spec to 1200 lumens. This reduced heat and allowed them to use a less noisy fan.

nachin

· #9 · Jun 16, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by thirdkind
I believe the solution to the fan noise problem was to reduce the lumen output from the original 1500 lumen spec to 1200 lumens. This reduced heat and allowed them to use a less noisy fan.

Or......add a very apreciated 28db ECO mode to the SX21.

Nacho.

thirdkind

· #10 · Jun 16, 2003

I own the SX21. I don't remember seeing an eco mode anywhere in the menus or manual.

Free

· #11 · Jun 16, 2003

If you keep it cool the fan runs on low speed and the noise is reduced. I guess that is as close to eco mode that we get.

Andy Lammer

· #12 · Jun 17, 2003

Hey Phil, any update on the Silverstar arrival ?

- Andy

Free

· #13 · Jun 17, 2003

Hi Andy,

No I have not heard a thing and I am a bit miffed because it has been several weeks and I don't have a shipping or arrival date yet

kpd

· #14 · Jun 17, 2003

Phil, speaking of keeping the SX21U cool.... Mine was just ceiling mounted and it is only 6 inches from the back wall. Needless to say the fan is working hard to move air. My A/V guys are coming in the morning to mount the screen (110" diag.), finish the trim out and calibrate the room.

Outside of re-mounting the SX21 do you, or anyone else here, have any ideas on how to quietly cool this thing, given there is only 6 inches to work with?

JVC recommends roughly 20 inches behind the SX21 but I do not know what that would do to my screen size. I have no problem making the guys re-mount (assuming we can still fill up the screen) but I am wondering how much 14 inched of extra breathing room in the back will help.

This thread has a few pictures and more information on the room itself:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=262893

Thanks,

Kevin

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darinp

· #15 · Jun 17, 2003

Kevin,

You might want to consider getting an ISCO 2 lens or another one that shortens the throw. Then you could move it further from the wall.

--Darin

Free

· #16 · Jun 17, 2003

Kevin,

You could build a hush box projector enclosure with some quiet fans built in on the sides to vent the air.

Another thought, from looking at your pictures, the AC vent over to the side, if the duct runs accross the ceiling near the projector you could tap into it and put a vent in that blows right on the projector.

kpd

· #17 · Jun 18, 2003

Thanks for the comments Darin and Phil. I think I like the idea of the ISCO II - I might as well get a little more brightness and resolution while fixing my throw issue. (Phil, I have thought about a hush box but my level of DIYness amounts to picking up the phone and the check book.)

All, are the ISCO II and Prismasonic H-200 essentially the same. It looks to me like they will both help shorten my throw and do 4:3 to 16:9. The only reason I ask is that it looks like the H-200 is quite a bit less money.

Thanks for any help gang!

Kevin

Scott B

· #18 · Jun 18, 2003

Kevin,

If you are looking at hush box options check out www.whisperflow.com

fantao

· #19 · Jun 18, 2003

Here is a bit more news (or not) from JVC reported by Display Monitor's Infocomm 2003 report (a subscription newsletter put out by Meko):

"The representative we met with explained that the

company was hoping to have some new

products at the upcoming CEDIA event.

Among new developments expected to be

shown is a 16:9 aspect D-ILA chipset incorporated

into a similar profile projector to the SX21."

I hope this is true, and that they price it competively against DLPs.

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kelliot

· #20 · Jun 19, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by fantao
Here is a bit more news (or not) from JVC reported by Display Monitor's Infocomm 2003 report (a subscription newsletter put out by Meko):

"The representative we met with explained that the

company was hoping to have some new

products at the upcoming CEDIA event.

Among new developments expected to be

shown is a 16:9 aspect D-ILA chipset incorporated

into a similar profile projector to the SX21."

I hope this is true, and that they price it competively against DLPs.

Maybe this is the killer CEDIA announcement alluded to by Alan G.

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