[akatdare06]

Hello all - I'm remodeling my basement and intend to set up a home theater system while I'm doing it. The plan for the basement is indicated below and the rectangular area is where the HT viewing area would be. The screen will be a 120" fixed screen set up on the wall next to the stairs. Looking for recommendations on speakers that can meet my budget and the room size.

A few key points -

• The viewing area dimensions are about 19'X16.5' with a 9' ceiling. the rest of the space is an open plan. no enclosures on either side of the viewing area.
• I was thinking of a 5.1.2 surround set up with an overall budget of about $ 2 to $2.2 K for the speakers.
• Usage will be largely for movies / TV (80%) and music (20%)

Based on my research, I was thinking of the configuration below while it's slightly above my budget

Since I'm a complete noob, was hoping to get guidance on the below -

• Any recommended alternatives to the combinations above that meet my budget ?
• Can I mix and match speakers from different brands without any compatibility issues?
• if I buy the towers like BP9020 from DefTech do I need a sub or can I forego. Since it's an open space, I feel I may need an additional powered sub.

Any inputs will be, by me, much appreciated

Cheers
AK

 

[Zorba922]

Hello all - I'm remodeling my basement and intend to set up a home theater system while I'm doing it. The plan for the basement is indicated below and the rectangular area is where the HT viewing area would be. The screen will be a 120" fixed screen set up on the wall next to the stairs. Looking for recommendations on speakers that can meet my budget and the room size.

A few key points -

• The viewing area dimensions are about 19'X16.5' with a 9' ceiling. the rest of the space is an open plan. no enclosures on either side of the viewing area.
• I was thinking of a 5.1.2 surround set up with an overall budget of about $ 2 to $2.2 K for the speakers.
• Usage will be largely for movies / TV (80%) and music (20%)

Based on my research, I was thinking of the configuration below while it's slightly above my budget

View attachment 3078266

Since I'm a complete noob, was hoping to get guidance on the below -

• Any recommended alternatives to the combinations above that meet my budget ?
• Can I mix and match speakers from different brands without any compatibility issues?
• if I buy the towers like BP9020 from DefTech do I need a sub or can I forego. Since it's an open space, I feel I may need an additional powered sub.

Option 2 is the lesser of the 2 evils. At least you'll get a decent sub.

You can do far better with a $2200 budget max.

 

[nathan_h]

Thats gonna be a nice space.

Have you heard Klipsch and Def Tech? I have owned both and they are very different sounding. Asking someone else to recommend one or the other is like asking someone to recommend whether you should buy a German Sedan or an American Muscle Car.....I can give you my opinion, but......

Definitely DO NOT rely on the powered woofers in the Def Techs. Save money and get bookshelf speakers if you have to, in order to get at least one serious subwoofer. HSU, Monolith, SVS, get the largest ported subwoofer you can afford. (There is some advantage to getting two subwoofers if you are ready to get fancy with integrating them BUT you will get more output and fill the room better if you spend your whole subwoofer budget on one big ported subwoofer instead.....and you need lots of output because this is a big space.......bass doesn't stop at the imaginary edges of the viewing area.....it needs to FILL the whole open space for you to feel it correctly and that requires a big sub.)

Assuming you haven't heard the Def Tech and Klipsch yet, if you can find a way to safely and responsibly do so, I would encourage you to do so. If you have heard them, I would choose whichever brand you liked better.

If you are looking for further recommendations, you could do very well with a package deal from HSU:

Speaker Packages

I would recommend you step up to a bigger subwoofer. My space is half as large and my subwoofer has twice as much output (PB2000) and I would not want you to experience any less. If you can, I would budget 1/3 of your budget or a little more for the subwoofer. That might mean you don't have enough money for all the speakers you want (overheads) right away, but in the long run it will be worth it.

For speakers you could also consider five of these: HTM-200 SE Home Theater Monitor (they are priced per pair but I believe the company will sell singles for a center).

or five of these Prime Bookshelf which you can audition for free in your room.

In fact, were I in your shoes and the inability to go to stores was like it is around me (hospitals are full etc), I would probably over a complete system from SVS because they have reasonable prices, high quality, and free returns, and then decide if there is anything I don't like.

Here are the retail prices. Go for their B stock, which is typically in great shape, to get your price under 2k. And you can save even more if you use two of their Prime Satellites for the surround speakers instead of the bookshelves.

Then, when budget allows, you can use their prime elevation speakers for overhead or choose another less expensive brand, which will work fine, too for those overhead speakers.

 

[akatdare06]

Option 2 is the lesser of the 2 evils. At least you'll get a decent sub.

You can do far better with a $2200 budget max.

Thank you, Zorba. I will sharpen the pencil.

 

[akatdare06]

Thats gonna be a nice space.

Have you heard Klipsch and Def Tech? I have owned both and they are very different sounding. Asking someone else to recommend one or the other is like asking someone to recommend whether you should buy a German Sedan or an American Muscle Car.....I can give you my opinion, but......

Definitely DO NOT rely on the powered woofers in the Def Techs. Save money and get bookshelf speakers if you have to, in order to get at least one serious subwoofer. HSU, Monolith, SVS, get the largest ported subwoofer you can afford. (There is some advantage to getting two subwoofers if you are ready to get fancy with integrating them BUT you will get more output and fill the room better if you spend your whole subwoofer budget on one big ported subwoofer instead.....and you need lots of output because this is a big space.......bass doesn't stop at the imaginary edges of the viewing area.....it needs to FILL the whole open space for you to feel it correctly and that requires a big sub.)

Assuming you haven't heard the Def Tech and Klipsch yet, if you can find a way to safely and responsibly do so, I would encourage you to do so. If you have heard them, I would choose whichever brand you liked better.

If you are looking for further recommendations, you could do very well with a package deal from HSU:

Speaker Packages

I would recommend you step up to a bigger subwoofer. My space is half as large and my subwoofer has twice as much output (PB2000) and I would not want you to experience any less. If you can, I would budget 1/3 of your budget or a little more for the subwoofer. That might mean you don't have enough money for all the speakers you want (overheads) right away, but in the long run it will be worth it.

For speakers you could also consider five of these: HTM-200 SE Home Theater Monitor (they are priced per pair but I believe the company will sell singles for a center).

or five of these Prime Bookshelf which you can audition for free in your room.

In fact, were I in your shoes and the inability to go to stores was like it is around me (hospitals are full etc), I would probably over a complete system from SVS because they have reasonable prices, high quality, and free returns, and then decide if there is anything I don't like.

Here are the retail prices. Go for their B stock, which is typically in great shape, to get your price under 2k. And you can save even more if you use two of their Prime Satellites for the surround speakers instead of the bookshelves.

Then, when budget allows, you can use their prime elevation speakers for overhead or choose another less expensive brand, which will work fine, too for those overhead speakers.

View attachment 3078319

Thank you for the elaborate reply, Nathan. Much appreciated.

Like you rightly surmised, I have not been able to hear out the Def Techs vs Klipsch due to current circumstances - so the first cut was solely based on reading (peripheral, at that) and known names (to my limited knowledge ). Your post was illuminating, to say the least. I will go back to the drawing board and review options. A few quick questions -

1. I ready up posts about center channel speakers not really being warranted and a bookshelf can easily serve the purpose - I take it you are suggesting the same. Esp with the SVS line up - does it make sense to consider the Prime Center at all ?

2. Likewise, the Prime Tower - does it bring any significant value compared to the Prime Bookshelf or the HTM 200 ? If I were to swing the budget a bit - does it make sense to invest in height speakers or a better front speaker ?

Again, thanks for the detailed response. I get educated every day..

Cheers
AK

 

[nathan_h]

1. It may be counter intuitive but "center speakers" are a compromise. The best approach is to have three identical speakers across the front soundstage (left, center, right). The "center speaker" concept became popular because many people could not fit a center speaker that was the same as the left and right and they needed something that was horizontal.

Putting a traditional speaker sideways can create issues with the way sound propagates in the room. A well designed "center speaker" has the drivers in a pattern designed to mitigate that issue. But the best solution is to use the same speaker for the center as the left and right, in the same orientation as the left and right speakers.

2. Tower speakers. The advantage of a tower speaker is they can play louder than a bookshelf speaker. In some rooms when the sitting distance is more than 15 feet from the front speakers, that extra output can be important. No matter what size speaker you use, you will set it to "SMALL" in the AVR and direct the bass to the subwoofer. So their ability to play lower is not their advantage.

Your listening distance is not so large that you need the extra output of the tower speakers, but if you prefer them for their look, you can certainly use them.

The downside is that they cost more, and then you are less likely to have a center speaker that is exactly the same as the left and right (though some people use a tower for their center, if space allows). If you use tower speakers for the left and right, you could still use the bookshelf speaker for the center, or use the "matching" center channel, your choice. (If you were using tower speakers because you require their increased output, then using the matching center channel might be better than a bookshelf speaker because in the case of SVS, the official center channel ALSO has a little more output than the bookshelf....but, again, your room isnt likely to need that.)

---

If you have extra budget, my first choice would be to dedicate it to a larger subwoofer rather than tower speakers. Unlike the main speakers, where the most of the sound goes direct from the speaker to your ear, the subwoofer sound has to fill the room and most of what you hear is bounced back after filling the room....and you have a large open space, so you almost can't go too big with your subwoofer!

The other place I would spend money before buying towers, assuming you don't have budget to do everything at once, is on acoustic panels on the wall behind the seats. This will greatly improve the sound and clarity of the whole system by greatly reducing reflections back to the listener.

GIK Acoustics is a good source for panels (though DIY is an option). I would put four or six of their 2ft by 4ft by six inch panels on the wall behind the seats. https://www.gikacoustics.com/product/gik-acoustics-244-bass-trap-flexrange-technology/ But if you don't have space for the ones that are six inches thick, then the ones that are four inches thick are still very useful. And of course they have lots of options with printed patterns on them, etc, if plain panels don't fit with your taste.

--

Personally, I would invest in all the above items BEFORE adding in overhead speakers. And, frankly, while the Prime Elevations speakers are very nice for overhead speakers, you don't actually need to spend that much to get good overhead sound, if budget becomes an issue. Something like the NHT Super Zeros are cheaper and would match well with the system, as would some of the Yamaha "outdoor" speakers which can often be found for 99 dollars a pair, and have mounting brackets that let you easily point them toward the listening position.

--

Finally, since even if you could listen to speakers at a store safely and responsibly it is still better to hear them in your home, I think you are a GREAT candidate for these internet direct companies that have a generous return policy. SVS is one, but not the only one. And even Crutchfield is pretty good about returns. Last time I checked it was like $10 plus shipping to return a bookshelf speaker. (Verify this before assuming I am right.)

--

Totally unsolicited advice: If I was outfitting this space, I would probably buy five Elac Debut Reference bookshelf speakers (Debut Reference) which are within your budget. Some people don't like these for home theater, saying they are not exciting enough, but they strike me as very neutral and refined and should still have plenty of output. And I would get the largest ported sub I could afford from one of the internet direct brands, while setting aside a few hundred bucks for acoustic panels on that back wall.

 

[daddyora]

You're getting good advice. I would only add that while you're running wires go ahead and plan for a 5.1.4 layout and run the wires for 4 Atmos speakers, even if you don't add the speakers immediately. I have a 5.1.2 and wish that I had gone ahead and provided for 4 speakers in ceiling.

 

[nathan_h]

Very good point.

Yes, in fact, run wires for a 9.4*.6 system! Wire is cheap and running it is easy before the drywall goes up.

Now, it may be ten years before you need all those wires....and maybe you never do, but you won't be sad to have them, and will only have wasted fifty bucks....

ALSO, run CONDUIT from where the gear rack will be to where the projector location would be, not just HDMI cable, so that when your cable fails, or a new HDMI version comes out, you can just pull a new cable through the conduit and don't have to open the wall.


----

*the four subwoofer connections should not be speaker wire, of course, but RCA wire rated for use in walls.

 

[craig john]

How many seats do you plan to have? One row or two? How far from the speakers will the seating be? The seating is the first place I start when designing a theater. Everything else revolves around the seating... screen size, (which will impact projector selection and screen material type), listening distance, (which will impact speaker selection), bass response and subwoofer selections, riser height, (if using), etc.

Have you given any thought to an acoustically transparent screen with speakers behind the screen, (or at least the CC speaker behind the screen with the L/R's just outside the screen borders)? If this is a possibility, it changes everything about the design, so make that decision first, even before the seating.

Craig

 

[akatdare06]

1. It may be counter intuitive but "center speakers" are a compromise. The best approach is to have three identical speakers across the front soundstage (left, center, right). The "center speaker" concept became popular because many people could not fit a center speaker that was the same as the left and right and they needed something that was horizontal.

Putting a traditional speaker sideways can create issues with the way sound propagates in the room. A well designed "center speaker" has the drivers in a pattern designed to mitigate that issue. But the best solution is to use the same speaker for the center as the left and right, in the same orientation as the left and right speakers.

2. Tower speakers. The advantage of a tower speaker is they can play louder than a bookshelf speaker. In some rooms when the sitting distance is more than 15 feet from the front speakers, that extra output can be important. No matter what size speaker you use, you will set it to "SMALL" in the AVR and direct the bass to the subwoofer. So their ability to play lower is not their advantage.

Your listening distance is not so large that you need the extra output of the tower speakers, but if you prefer them for their look, you can certainly use them.

The downside is that they cost more, and then you are less likely to have a center speaker that is exactly the same as the left and right (though some people use a tower for their center, if space allows). If you use tower speakers for the left and right, you could still use the bookshelf speaker for the center, or use the "matching" center channel, your choice. (If you were using tower speakers because you require their increased output, then using the matching center channel might be better than a bookshelf speaker because in the case of SVS, the official center channel ALSO has a little more output than the bookshelf....but, again, your room isnt likely to need that.)

---

If you have extra budget, my first choice would be to dedicate it to a larger subwoofer rather than tower speakers. Unlike the main speakers, where the most of the sound goes direct from the speaker to your ear, the subwoofer sound has to fill the room and most of what you hear is bounced back after filling the room....and you have a large open space, so you almost can't go too big with your subwoofer!

The other place I would spend money before buying towers, assuming you don't have budget to do everything at once, is on acoustic panels on the wall behind the seats. This will greatly improve the sound and clarity of the whole system by greatly reducing reflections back to the listener.

GIK Acoustics is a good source for panels (though DIY is an option). I would put four or six of their 2ft by 4ft by six inch panels on the wall behind the seats. https://www.gikacoustics.com/product/gik-acoustics-244-bass-trap-flexrange-technology/ But if you don't have space for the ones that are six inches thick, then the ones that are four inches thick are still very useful. And of course they have lots of options with printed patterns on them, etc, if plain panels don't fit with your taste.

--

Personally, I would invest in all the above items BEFORE adding in overhead speakers. And, frankly, while the Prime Elevations speakers are very nice for overhead speakers, you don't actually need to spend that much to get good overhead sound, if budget becomes an issue. Something like the NHT Super Zeros are cheaper and would match well with the system, as would some of the Yamaha "outdoor" speakers which can often be found for 99 dollars a pair, and have mounting brackets that let you easily point them toward the listening position.

--

Finally, since even if you could listen to speakers at a store safely and responsibly it is still better to hear them in your home, I think you are a GREAT candidate for these internet direct companies that have a generous return policy. SVS is one, but not the only one. And even Crutchfield is pretty good about returns. Last time I checked it was like $10 plus shipping to return a bookshelf speaker. (Verify this before assuming I am right.)

--

Totally unsolicited advice: If I was outfitting this space, I would probably buy five Elac Debut Reference bookshelf speakers (Debut Reference) which are within your budget. Some people don't like these for home theater, saying they are not exciting enough, but they strike me as very neutral and refined and should still have plenty of output. And I would get the largest ported sub I could afford from one of the internet direct brands, while setting aside a few hundred bucks for acoustic panels on that back wall.

Thank you so much, Nathan. Life-saving suggestions. I am gravitating towards an all SVS bundle at this point - PB 2000 Pro + Prime Bookshelf + Satellite combo. Great food for thought on the accoustic panels. Will need to look at the size - since seating area is a little limited, but I never thought of it at all. Incredible how much you learn by talking to the right folks.. May need some guidance on the receiver as well - currently thinking of either the Pioneer Elite 7.2 Ch or Yamaha Rx V6A 7.2 Ch - would you recommend going in for a higher channel count ? Any suggestions on this front ?

 

[akatdare06]

You're getting good advice. I would only add that while you're running wires go ahead and plan for a 5.1.4 layout and run the wires for 4 Atmos speakers, even if you don't add the speakers immediately. I have a 5.1.2 and wish that I had gone ahead and provided for 4 speakers in ceiling.

Great point - I will definitely run wiring for the 4 in-ceiling + possibly another sub. Thanks for the inputs

 

[akatdare06]

Very good point.

Yes, in fact, run wires for a 9.4*.6 system! Wire is cheap and running it is easy before the drywall goes up.

Now, it may be ten years before you need all those wires....and maybe you never do, but you won't be sad to have them, and will only have wasted fifty bucks....

ALSO, run CONDUIT from where the gear rack will be to where the projector location would be, not just HDMI cable, so that when your cable fails, or a new HDMI version comes out, you can just pull a new cable through the conduit and don't have to open the wall.


----

*the four subwoofer connections should not be speaker wire, of course, but RCA wire rated for use in walls.

4 Subs !! That's a new definition for "Think Big" - but jokes apart, I think this is a great thought. Conduits are great input as well. Super helpful. Thanks much.

 

[akatdare06]

How many seats do you plan to have? One row or two? How far from the speakers will the seating be? The seating is the first place I start when designing a theater. Everything else revolves around the seating... screen size, (which will impact projector selection and screen material type), listening distance, (which will impact speaker selection), bass response and subwoofer selections, riser height, (if using), etc.

Have you given any thought to an acoustically transparent screen with speakers behind the screen, (or at least the CC speaker behind the screen with the L/R's just outside the screen borders)? If this is a possibility, it changes everything about the design, so make that decision first, even before the seating.

Craig

Thanks Craig. I will mostly have a recliner sectional with 4 seats in a single row. The distance will approximately be about 16 to 18 feet between the front speakers and the seating. I may not have the ability to plant anything behind the screen due to space limitations, but am intrigued by the thinking. What would this help with ? Something I can read up to get myself educated ?

 

[nathan_h]

Thanks Craig. I will mostly have a recliner sectional with 4 seats in a single row. The distance will approximately be about 16 to 18 feet between the front speakers and the seating. I may not have the ability to plant anything behind the screen due to space limitations, but am intrigued by the thinking. What would this help with ? Something I can read up to get myself educated ?

I think one row is a smart choice. It makes everything else a little easier.

I think your whole room is 18’ deep. Assumimg your speaker ps are 1 foot into the room, and your couch is not against the back wall (please leave space behind it, like enough to walk behind it, and your audio will sound better) I’d estimate your ears-to-speakers distance is under 15’, maybe 13’ feet, so you probably don’t need to seek out high output speakers and unusual amplification.

--

Yamaha receivers are good. I’m a similar price bracket I would also consider Denon and Marantz.

But not the other brands like onkyo pioneer Sony etc which tend to have lass capable room eq systems.

 

[akatdare06]

I think one row is a smart choice. It makes everything else a little easier.

I think your whole room is 18’ deep. Assumimg your speaker ps are 1 foot into the room, and your couch is not against the back wall (please leave space behind it, like enough to walk behind it, and your audio will sound better) I’d estimate your ears-to-speakers distance is under 15’, maybe 13’ feet, so you probably don’t need to seek out high output speakers and unusual amplification.

--

Yamaha receivers are good. I’m a similar price bracket I would also consider Denon and Marantz.

But not the other brands like onkyo pioneer Sony etc which tend to have lass capable room eq systems.

Got it. Does it make sense to wall mount the front speakers ? or are stands the preferred way of setting them up ?

 

[Tim Diebert]

All great recommendations so far so yes take notes from them all.

Here is my 2 cents....

You 1000% need a subwoofer in a home theater. Adding subwoofers isn’t all about getting MORE bass, because a good single sub can give you excellent response for 1-2 seats in the theater if the sub is located in the room correctly. Search “Sub Crawl” to get some insight on that topic. Multiple subs when placed right will give you a more even response & allow more seats/people to experience good bass.

Ok as far as speaker suggestions this is VERY easy for me. HSU Research!!

Hybrid 15 Packages

or

Hybrid 3 Packages

I recommend them for these reasons:

1. Because I have owned the HB-1 & the VTF-15 MK1 sub. I know their capabilities

2. Because they are RIGHT in your budge

3. Because they are easy to power speakers (meaning they play loud with minimum wattage) so they will not require an external amplifier to be added to your AV receiver.

4. You will get a TRUE home theater experience with HSU I guarantee it

I live in Southern California & not only have I owned HSU products but I have visited their demo room in Anaheim, CA to listen to all their subwoofers, multiple times over the years. I have no affiliation with HSU I just appreciate what they offer specially at their price.

My personal choice would be to get the Hybrid 3 HP - 5.1 package & to add a second VTF-3 MK5 subwoofer. If you talk to them I’m sure they will give you a discount on the second subwoofer to keep you within budget. Dual VTF-3 subs will outperform a single VTF-15H in my opinion. In fact they have the same driver & amp just different cabinet size & tune.

Well I guess that wouldn’t leave you any money for Atmos but if it were me I would focus on a good 5.2 system, have the wiring ready for the overhead speakers & add them later. Or hold off on the second sub, get the Atmos in & save for the second sub. But if you could get that second sub at a discount while purchasing the main system I’d absolutely be willing to hold off on the overheads for a few months or year.

HSU is legit so put them on your short list at least

 

[craig john]

Thanks Craig. I will mostly have a recliner sectional with 4 seats in a single row. The distance will approximately be about 16 to 18 feet between the front speakers and the seating. I may not have the ability to plant anything behind the screen due to space limitations, but am intrigued by the thinking. What would this help with ? Something I can read up to get myself educated ?

Using an acoustically transparent, (AT), screen allows placement of the CC behind the screen. This is a MUCH better place for the CC than above or below the screen. Dialogue should come from the mouths of the humans who are speaking. The best place for the sound source to make that happen is behind the screen. Placing the CC below the screen causes the sound source to originate from below the screen, which causes a disconnect between the video image of the actors and the audio of their voices. Some will say that the "ventriloquist effect" will override this phenomenon, but that has never been my personal experience. Also, the disconnect increases as the screen size increases.

Another major benefit of an AT screen is that it allows the use of a third, speaker identical to the L/R's, and it can be mounted at the same height as the L/R's. This provides the greatest opportunity for a consistent, cohesive and integrated front soundstage. In fact, this is the "gold standard" for theaters and is used universally in commercial cinemas.

It can work extremely well in a Home Theater environment as well. Since you are starting from scratch, I suggest you give consideration to the use of an AT screen, with all the benefits it provides.

Craig

 

[Kini62]

Based on your initial options and the price of the DefTechs I would recommend taking a look at the entry level towers (yes towers) from Focal, Kef and Revel. Just because you have a sub or even two doesn't mean you can't take advantage of towers. Plus your listening distance is not the close and you wouldn't need to buy stands.

Those three all have a very large soundstage. I'm blown away when watching decently to well recorded movies and TV since changing my front stage to Kefs. It sounds like I have front wides and heights compared to my previous speakers. I'm not sure that the SVS have the soundstage that the three I mentioned are known for.

 

[nathan_h]

Got it. Does it make sense to wall mount the front speakers ? or are stands the preferred way of setting them up ?

well if you are considering an acoustically transparent screen then getting in wall speakers makes sense.

otherwise unless you choose speakers to be mounted on wall, they usually sound best when off the wall a little, though eq can be used to make most normal speakers still sound good when wall mounted, taking into account that rear ports need room to breathe.

 

[akatdare06]

Using an acoustically transparent, (AT), screen allows placement of the CC behind the screen. This is a MUCH better place for the CC than above or below the screen. Dialogue should come from the mouths of the humans who are speaking. The best place for the sound source to make that happen is behind the screen. Placing the CC below the screen causes the sound source to originate from below the screen, which causes a disconnect between the video image of the actors and the audio of their voices. Some will say that the "ventriloquist effect" will override this phenomenon, but that has never been my personal experience. Also, the disconnect increases as the screen size increases.

Another major benefit of an AT screen is that it allows the use of a third, speaker identical to the L/R's, and it can be mounted at the same height as the L/R's. This provides the greatest opportunity for a consistent, cohesive and integrated front soundstage. In fact, this is the "gold standard" for theaters and is used universally in commercial cinemas.

It can work extremely well in a Home Theater environment as well. Since you are starting from scratch, I suggest you give consideration to the use of an AT screen, with all the benefits it provides.

Craig

Ah ! I get it now. Does the CC go behind the screen but infront of the wall ? Will read up on this as well.