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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have read some posts and something on projectorcentral.com regarding the 576p and their main theme was that for US projector owners, the value of 576p is debatable...


this was because the native rate of dvds and most broadcasting is done at 480i and that hte 576 chip has to do upscaling and a resulting softer image...


i realize the benefits include being able to sit closer to the screen and some benefit on 720/1080 material....


what i dont understand is why no one says this of 720p projectors...i understand that hte 720p have a much higher resolution, but the 576 ones have about 43% more resolution....


so my question is, holding all other aspects the same (scaler quality, lumens, contrast, price, throw ratios, etc) is there a reason to choose a 576p projector over a 480p projector, especially for dvd and football game purposes?


given that the prices on some of the matterhorn projectors have ranged into optomoa 31 and infocus 4805 projectors, and im considering buying a projector...the life would be expected to be about 2 years...


thank you in advance for you replies...


rich
 

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Matterhorn's do have higher resolution and you will notice a smoother picture with DVDs (if the scaler is decent) regardless if they are in NTSC or PAL. However one thing I really like about Matterhorn is that the panel is very close to the chroma resolution (960x540) of 1080i HDTV sources. The resulting 1080i picture is FAR better than one would expect. In fact when I first saw 1080i D-Theater on my Matterhorn I had the impression to look at another projector. Other advantages are faster colorwheel and therefore less RBE.
 

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Much less pixel, SDE whatever y'wannacallit on the matterhorn. And believe me, on my h57 with my upscaling oppo player, DVDs look sharp as a tack! And if you get an oppo, NATIVE PAL resolutiuon for any PAL dvds. And wow, some of them look might swell.


:) d
 

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The HD standards are 720p and 1080i. A 720p source will look better on a 720p PJ. The 720p PJs have a higher resolution and the DarkChip2 HD2+ units have better contrast ratio than the Matterhorn units. The new DarkChip3 PJs (such as the Optoma 78DC23 or Infocus 7210) are even better.
 

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Rich,

Sounds like you're a DLP fan. I agree that for about 1/2 the price of 720p DLP (at MSRP and after rebate) I'd much rather watch a Matterhorn PJ rather than a 480p PJ.


720p DLP rocks but with the NEC HT510's current MSRP of $1495 - $200 NEC rebate, it's a good compromise at $1300, less SDE and much better res on HD than a 480p machine.
 

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It's all about resolution, more is better. But you do need to make sure the PJ has a good scaler as it's doubtful you could ever achieve 1:1 pixel mapping unless you were feeding it an HTPC signal. I agree with DRPP, 1080i (PJ reports it as 540p) especially HDTV is fantastic. With Matterhorn prices dropping like a rock it's a great time to be a consumer!
 

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Though matterhorn dmds are from the previous dlp generation, they are not darkchip2 and do not get the contrast and deep blacks of the darkchip2 dmds.
 

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That is not necessarily true. My Metavision (original Matterhorn) is perfectly on par with a HC900 (darkchip 2) contrastwise. While I would prefer to own a 720p or even 1080p projector I found in back to back comparison of my Metavision NHT-576 Matterhorn and a colourfilter tuned and calibrated Optoma H78DC3 that from 2 screen width distance there is very little difference between the projectors. Ergo if you have little money Matterhorns CAN offer you great value. I was rather surprised when I noticed how well 1080i looks on such a lowly resolution projector.
 

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I see. I wasn't aware that there were any darkchip2 1024x576 models other than the optoma h57.
 

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The NEC HT510 is darkchip 2.


576p is what countries employing PAL signals require for full DVD resolution. 480p just doesn't cut it as it then downscales. I know Australia and England employ PAL, as do many other European countries as well.


Either case it's no big deal to me since I use my HTPC for scaling purposes (of course I'd rather have a higher res 720p projector but at the time the DLP offerings were out of my price range). But since 90% of my DVD collection is PAL, I chose this particular PJ despite it's shortcomings in Colourwheel and contrast ratio. (At the time the price difference between what I paid and what the 4805 would have cost was minimal and that was a while ago).


Cheers...

Duy-Khang Hoang
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thank you very much for all your replies...


I am definitely going DLP (fell in love with them when i was at HE2002 and the infocus and sharp had killer projectors so cheap, really regretted buying a 56" tv prior to that)


I am considering 4805/31/27/dt300/510/410 projectors...


on paper, the sharp looks the best, good connections (better than the NEC), good resolution, etc (the only thing i think the nec has on it is the fan noise, and there are ways around that)...


however, i was (still am) worried about the internal scaler mapping from 480 to 576....if i could find a cheap external scaler that could map 480 to 576 (lumagen et al are too expensive, as much as the projector), i would feel much more comfortable....


Rich
 

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That's probably the last thing I would worry about. The scaler in the Sharp (whatever it is) works awesome. I've put this thing through it's paces and scaled up, down and probably sideways :D and it has never produced anything other than a stellar picture. It knows what to do with a NTSC signal, trust me.


As for the fan noise, it's there but not really noticeable because it's a short throw PJ which means it now sits 6' in front of me instead of directly above me like the X1 did. Find a place with a good return policy and give it a shot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Im going to be table topping the Sharp, and with the way our living room is giong to work out, we will be fairly close to the projector, may only throw a 60-70 inch screen.


think i need a different dvd player than the denon 1600? and if the scaler is good in the dt 300, and i keep the denon, should i pass it to the sharp in component but in interlaced mode?


I dont think this is a rule violation, if one looks you can find that sharp basically at the same price as a 31/4805...it seems almost too good.


Rich


hmmmm


so much thought....


Rich
 

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If that is truly the layout of your room you definitely need a short throw PJ, don't even consider a long throw - your picture will be tiny. I agree on the price of the Sharp, no one here even talked about it until Sharp had a fire sale. Careful shopping can turn up a fabulous deal.


No matter what PJ you end up with, always try both 480i and 480p mode to see which machine (DVD & PJ) does a better job with the deinterlacing/scaling duties. I am sending an upscaled image to mine from a Samsung HD941 and the picture is Sharp (no pun :D) but I expect I would have been happy with a 480p signal also - it's just this silly forum here keeps making want to upgrade all the time ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
my room layout can change to fit either type of projector and its a temprorary home anyway, so making decisions based on the room is not wise...


basically i went back to grad school, previously i had a 56" tv, but what i really miss is my 2 pairs of B&W DM605s2 speakers and my center....really miss the great music more than anything...


cant complain, picked up a pair of triangle celius (the new ones) that sound great, just cant quite fill a room like those towers...


but i have a 27" 480i only tv that sucks...and im not going another year without watching my steelers on a big screen...that and the gf loves movies, but i hate going out to the movies...someone always has to have a conversation, and that makes me really mad...


so basically i have a 2 channel system right now, no sub, and a 27" crapola tv...


i have one choice to make it better (can buy a sub, or some surrounds and possibly a center) or a projector....in the long run the projector is the only thing that makes sense that i will use (i gave away the 56" tv)....my B&W speakers (are living with my parents now, im in pittsburgh at CMU for grad school and they live close to where i normally live, NYC, couldnt bring them with me)....have powered woofers, kind of like 4 subs between them, adding a sub wouldnt add nearly as much bang as a projector, and adding surrounds to a pair of speakers that are going to be bedroom speakers (they do sound great though), just doesnt make sense...


plus projectors are easy to move...


i just want to make sure that im not missing anything here....it seems with the move to hd-dvd by next year will only make these matterhorns even more attractive...i mean they have 43% more pixels...it just seems like a no brainer....if i get an oppo or CA, i can move to region free dvds to get native 576 source material too...i must be missing something here.


if you could email me at [email protected] where you bought your sharp (and if you dont mind, how much, but i understand if you dont want to do that, or either), i would appreciate it...


thank you again
 

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You do not miss anything. Matterhorns have a lower reputation than they deserve. True they have less resolution to offer than a 1280x720 pj, but feeding them with HD sources 720p or 1080i the differences to a 1280x720 projector while undoubtly there are smaller than many would think (from ~2 screenwidth away) and not day and night. This depends also on the detail in the sources, many action flicks have so much movement which is blurred, that you could not tell anyway...


With prices similar to a 4805 the Sharp is really great value, I think the only weakness is in the CR department which is not on par to a HC900/H31/SP4805 but still well over 1k:1. If I would buy such a projector now I would look at it as a stop gap projector for the next 2 years and buy something better than. Chances are nowadays 720p value DLPs will go for more or less the same then...
 

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576P is a very visible upgrade. The 576P DLP closely mimics the performance of a 720P projector while a DVD quality projector cannot. The average person would not be able to tell the difference between a 1280x720P projector and a good 1024x576 projection from 2x the screen width back. The relative dropoff in image quality between 720P and 480P is so obvious that even non-videophile, casual observors could easily tell the difference.
 

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Most visitors I had over here when I did my Metavision Matterhorn vs Optoma H78DC3 comparisons did not find that the Optoma was worth 1500,- extra bucks even when I feed both with D-Theater. Okay these were no 'videophiles' but 'ordinary people' and I am not stating it is not worth the extra cash, it certainly is, but if you stay around 2 x screenwidth you could as well spare the money, as you will most probably not notice dramatic differences. A comparison of a 720p projector with a 480p projector however is something completely different.


It is probably hard to believe but displaying The Incedibles in PAL (a very good quality DVD) I actually preferred the Metavision over the Optoma. As I use the projector mainly for DVDs and less than 10% for HDTV sources you will understand why I keep my Metavision (which I could have sold more or less without loss thanks to the strong EURO half a year ago)...
 

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I just added a Panamorph to my 4805 recently, which means for 2.35:1 content I'm getting better vertical resolution than what a 576p projector would provide (480p for my 4805 w/Panamorph versus 435 for a 576p projector). To be perfectly honest, I have a hard time noticing much difference between the image with and without the Panamorph. With the lens engaged, the picture is a little more detailed and smooth, but it's certainly not a dramatic difference - it's subtle. Based on that, I'm a little hesitant to buy into the statements that a 576p projector makes a big difference over a 480p projector, at least with DVD sources.


Now granted, my horizontal resolution is still only 854 versus the 1024 you'd get with a 576p projector, and perhaps the Panamorph introduces a little softness that mitagates the advantage of higher resolution. But still, keeping in mind that most of my viewing is with DVDs, I personally would rather have the better contrast of the 4805 or H31 vs the higher resolution of a projector like the NEC510 (which has a clear segment on the color wheel) or one of the older Matterhorns with lower contrast (like the IF 5700).
 
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