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Let's just say.........

You had a pair of Salon2s:) and weren't ready (or smart enough) to jump on the recently deceased Rhythm deal when you had the chance.

And then let's just say you were considering some JL F113/2s. And then let's say that you'd read about the new SVS SB/UB16 packages. And then let's just say that the difference in prices between these products were either not significant or didn't matter to you. Looking at two subs for the rig. Room: 22' by 16' by 9.5', dedicated.

I ask here because I trust you Salon 2 owners/lovers to have insight into this. Also, let's just say that you were aware that none of these choices included a built in high pass for the Salon2s which, without a crossover, will I imagine be run full range.

What the hell would you do? I suppose another way of asking this is: have any of you integrated the F113/2 with your Salons? Have you found a high pass filter/crossover to be necessary?

Music first, HT an afterthought as I currently run my 2 ch. system in conjunction with a 75" Sony TV, but music is the first priority. I may add surrounds later, but that's later. What did I miss that I needed to tell you?

Now, let's just say you give it to me straight!
With the JL's I can't get past the fact that the warranty is only three years and the unit must be shipped back to JL on the owner's nickel for warranty service.
 

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Let's just say.........

You had a pair of Salon2s:) and weren't ready (or smart enough) to jump on the recently deceased Rhythm deal when you had the chance.

And then let's just say you were considering some JL F113/2s. And then let's say that you'd read about the new SVS SB/UB16 packages. And then let's just say that the difference in prices between these products were either not significant or didn't matter to you. Looking at two subs for the rig. Room: 22' by 16' by 9.5', dedicated.

I ask here because I trust you Salon 2 owners/lovers to have insight into this. Also, let's just say that you were aware that none of these choices included a built in high pass for the Salon2s which, without a crossover, will I imagine be run full range.

What the hell would you do? I suppose another way of asking this is: have any of you integrated the F113/2 with your Salons? Have you found a high pass filter/crossover to be necessary?

Music first, HT an afterthought as I currently run my 2 ch. system in conjunction with a 75" Sony TV, but music is the first priority. I may add surrounds later, but that's later. What did I miss that I needed to tell you?

Now, let's just say you give it to me straight!
I also have Salon2's. I use them without assistance for two channel music. My room is similar in size to your room. It has double drywall on 2x6 double walls so not much sound gets out of the room. I can't imagine that the Salon's need help in the bass for most music, but that is your call in your installation. I listen to a lot of piano music so it's nice to have response in the mid 20Hz's but the Salon's provide that. I didn't pursue the Rhythms because the equalization process appeared to take quite some time and I make changes on a regular basis - it's a hobby!

Response to the lowest note on the piano is important even though the lowest keys are rarely used. If you have access to a grand piano play a middle C or A above that. With a clean finger touch or even just watch the stings down to the lowest note and they all vibrate when a higher note is hit. The impact of the hammer hitting the string is more like a pulse and a wide range of frequencies is generated. This initial impact determines the sound of the piano. Eliminate initial sounds from instruments and it is much hard to tell them apart, anyway...

For movies I also use a Voice2 which I would highly recommend, plus some surround speakers on the walls. I supplement the bass in movies with four 12"s sealed subwoofers that I built. The Salon's run full range. Audyssey manages the subs.

I'm considering a couple of the new SVS 16" units - vented, mainly because I like to try new, promising products. I wouldn't plan to use them for music because I don't see that they are needed. If I did use them, and hey if I owned them I'm sure I'd try, I'd use SVS's recommendation for Salon2's in general which is a crossover to the sub at 40Hz with the Salon2's running full range. Our ears are so insensitive at 40Hz and below that I doubt a little added output would be noticed and likely would be appreciated if it were noticeable. Likely I'll wait 3 to 6 months to get the SVS's because new products, even from good companies, often have problems and life is to short to mess with unneeded problems.
 

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Let's just say.........

You had a pair of Salon2s:) and weren't ready (or smart enough) to jump on the recently deceased Rhythm deal when you had the chance.

And then let's just say you were considering some JL F113/2s. And then let's say that you'd read about the new SVS SB/UB16 packages. And then let's just say that the difference in prices between these products were either not significant or didn't matter to you. Looking at two subs for the rig. Room: 22' by 16' by 9.5', dedicated.

I ask here because I trust you Salon 2 owners/lovers to have insight into this. Also, let's just say that you were aware that none of these choices included a built in high pass for the Salon2s which, without a crossover, will I imagine be run full range.

What the hell would you do? I suppose another way of asking this is: have any of you integrated the F113/2 with your Salons? Have you found a high pass filter/crossover to be necessary?

Music first, HT an afterthought as I currently run my 2 ch. system in conjunction with a 75" Sony TV, but music is the first priority. I may add surrounds later, but that's later. What did I miss that I needed to tell you?

Now, let's just say you give it to me straight!

You must know a real dummy. He should thank you for asking all those questions for him.

Just kidding. :) We likely do not live too far apart in Nashville.
 

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I also have Salon2's. I use them without assistance for two channel music. My room is similar in size to your room. It has double drywall on 2x6 double walls so not much sound gets out of the room. I can't imagine that the Salon's need help in the bass for most music, but that is your call in your installation. I listen to a lot of piano music so it's nice to have response in the mid 20Hz's but the Salon's provide that. I didn't pursue the Rhythms because the equalization process appeared to take quite some time and I make changes on a regular basis - it's a hobby!

Response to the lowest note on the piano is important even though the lowest keys are rarely used. If you have access to a grand piano play a middle C or A above that. With a clean finger touch or even just watch the stings down to the lowest note and they all vibrate when a higher note is hit. The impact of the hammer hitting the string is more like a pulse and a wide range of frequencies is generated. This initial impact determines the sound of the piano. Eliminate initial sounds from instruments and it is much hard to tell them apart, anyway...

For movies I also use a Voice2 which I would highly recommend, plus some surround speakers on the walls. I supplement the bass in movies with four 12"s sealed subwoofers that I built. The Salon's run full range. Audyssey manages the subs.

I'm considering a couple of the new SVS 16" units - vented, mainly because I like to try new, promising products. I wouldn't plan to use them for music because I don't see that they are needed. If I did use them, and hey if I owned them I'm sure I'd try, I'd use SVS's recommendation for Salon2's in general which is a crossover to the sub at 40Hz with the Salon2's running full range. Our ears are so insensitive at 40Hz and below that I doubt a little added output would be noticed and likely would be appreciated if it were noticeable. Likely I'll wait 3 to 6 months to get the SVS's because new products, even from good companies, often have problems and life is to short to mess with unneeded problems.
I acquired the Salon 2s thinking a sub would be unnecessary. For classical music, which is about 20% of my listening, it probably isn't. Tympani is solid and tuneful, for example. For popular music and rock I sometimes think I'd like more foundation, and when I do watch movies with a lot of LF content, I certainly understand that a little more reinforcement down low might be fun. It surely isn't necessary for acoustic music. I do appreciate your comments about the harmonics in the piano. In that case, the lower strings are acting like drones but I don't know that a sub would add much that the Salon 2s don't already provide in that case. Multi-tracked studio recordings and certain modern forms might be another story.

I often wish I'd built the room (especially in respect to the floor) but it was existing in the house. Overall it's not a bad job, the dimensions work well and the system sounds terrific in general. The prior owners used it as a dedicated theater room and set it up as such although I use it with the speakers off the short wall and they had it set up for 5.1 using the long wall for their screen. The isolation between adjacent rooms is adequate but the floor seems a little "soft" if you know what I mean. Sound (especially bass) transmits down through the floor into the room below more than it does horizontally. Not really a surprise, but there's not much I can do about that at this point. You don't feel flexing when you walk on it and footfalls aren't heard downstairs, but you do feel what seems to be a lot of energy through the floor when the speakers hit low frequencies. I believe it is wasted energy. Adding isolation footers to the speakers might be an option but seems like it could be a bandaid. Buying something like Stillpoints really isn't in my wheelhouse and for that money, I'd as soon add subs.

I was almost ready to pull the trigger on the JLs when the SVS subs were announced a couple of days ago and they look promising just as you say. I rarely ask these sorts of questions because I fancy I have the ability to sort this stuff out for myself, but this one's a poser for me as I don't have any experience adding subs in home systems although I have ample experience with them in large scale PA. I might not have come to this on my own, but even Kevin Voecks is a proponent of multiple subs with the Salon 2s. And that's why I asked.
You must know a real dummy. He should thank you for asking all those questions for him.

Just kidding. :) We likely do not live too far apart in Nashville.
East Nashville. The guy I'm talking about has been called a dummy by some respectable people from time to time, probably for good reasons. He's not so dumb that he's ready to drop 5 or 6K on a pair of subs he doesn't need though.:laugh:

PM me if you'd like to hear my rig. If you've got Salons, I'd be happy to hear yours too, or just share a beer.
 

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Ok, quick question and I hope someone can point me in the right direction/refer a vendor.

I have F208s, love them. I also have a 100lb White Lab who is about as coordinated as a frat boy at a keg party. There have been several close calls where he has almost knocked a 208 over despite carpet spikes.

What I am looking for is a set of outriggers I can attach to the bottom of the speaker to give it a wider base and a little more stability from accidental bumps (John Shuermann, I'm hoping you have something!).

Let me know if any of you have seen a solution that might work.
 

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Ok, quick question and I hope someone can point me in the right direction/refer a vendor.

I have F208s, love them. I also have a 100lb White Lab who is about as coordinated as a frat boy at a keg party. There have been several close calls where he has almost knocked a 208 over despite carpet spikes.

What I am looking for is a set of outriggers I can attach to the bottom of the speaker to give it a wider base and a little more stability from accidental bumps (John Shuermann, I'm hoping you have something!).

Let me know if any of you have seen a solution that might work.
Have you checked out Soundocity.com? They have a pretty wide variety of sizes and come/spike/feet options.
 

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Ok, quick question and I hope someone can point me in the right direction/refer a vendor.

I have F208s, love them. I also have a 100lb White Lab who is about as coordinated as a frat boy at a keg party. There have been several close calls where he has almost knocked a 208 over despite carpet spikes.

What I am looking for is a set of outriggers I can attach to the bottom of the speaker to give it a wider base and a little more stability from accidental bumps (John Shuermann, I'm hoping you have something!).

Let me know if any of you have seen a solution that might work.
I doubt anyone makes anything like this that will work with the F208's (at least without modifications). My suggestion is do something along the lines of taking a couple of 2x4's or 1x2's and drilling holes to mount the 2x4's to the threaded inserts that the spikes go into. Cut the pieces of wood long enough to give the speakers as much stability as you need. If support side to side AND back to back is needed, use something like a piece of plywood. Either countersink the bolts that you use to mount to the threaded inserts on the speakers, or install spikes on the platform you make. How good this looks largely depends on your wood working skills. A piece of plywood can be made to look decent if you use high quality veneered plywood and dress the edges up with molding (half round perhaps). Put on a nice coat of finish to match or complement the speakers and the end result should stabilize your speakers and look nice too.
 

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I've seen people just put a baby gate around that area and then the dog will have a buffer to stay clear around them. Assuming your dog isn't intentionally running into things.
 

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Glad I found this thread. Some years back, probably 15 or so, I listened to Revel studio with center channel in Lyric Hifi in White Plains, NY, once owned by the famous, now deceased, Michael Kay, along with his flagship store in NYC on Lexington Avenue where I visited many times. I was super impressed by the Revels.

I moved through many brands of speakers over the years, including, over 40 years ago, Fisher 111k, with a Marantz integrated amp, followed by JBLs, Magnepan, etc. About ten years ago I got the big Def Tech towers with built in powered subs. Wow, those were something. Little bright, siblance that drive me nuts at times, but super impressive bass for their time.

Fast forward to 2012 or so and my wife, who is a CPA, began working for Harman in their corporate headquarters in Stamford, Ct. I dreamed for years of owning Mark Levinson amps but just too expensive.

Well, she tells me one day she can get employee pricing on certain items.

Shortly thereafter I was, and am, the proud owner of the 208's, LCR. I love them.

About a year ago she retired and there went the amazing deals, oh, well.

Time to pm the members mentioned here. I need ceiling speakers now that I got the Anthem 1120.
 

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Answer from Revel re: "outriggers":

We do not have "outriggers" nor am I familiar with any such product.

We recommend bookcase wall/ floor anchors for applications like this.

Please see the caption below from the owners manual.

CAUTION: Floor-standing loudspeakers such as the F208 and F206 have a high center of gravity, which may cause them to fall if tipped or improperly positioned. To avoid this, anchor the loudspeaker to the floor and/or wall using the same procedures and hardware used to anchor bookcases, wall units, and other furniture. HARMAN International Industries, Inc. assumes no responsibility for proper selection and installation of hardware or for any personal injuries or product damages resulting from improper installation or a fallen loudspeaker.
 

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Answer from Revel re: "outriggers":

We do not have "outriggers" nor am I familiar with any such product.

We recommend bookcase wall/ floor anchors for applications like this.

Please see the caption below from the owners manual.

CAUTION: Floor-standing loudspeakers such as the F208 and F206 have a high center of gravity, which may cause them to fall if tipped or improperly positioned. To avoid this, anchor the loudspeaker to the floor and/or wall using the same procedures and hardware used to anchor bookcases, wall units, and other furniture. HARMAN International Industries, Inc. assumes no responsibility for proper selection and installation of hardware or for any personal injuries or product damages resulting from improper installation or a fallen loudspeaker.
Thanks for looking into this for me JOHN. I'll see what I can come up with. Ordered some outriggers from soundocity and will report back if they work out. Otherwise, will look for anchors.
 

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A big shoutout to John. As I'm sure many of you already know, John is very helpful and an all around great guy. I emailed him to ask some questions and he took his time giving me full and complete answers.

Thank you, sir.

Mark
 

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Anyone have thoughts on how the M106 compares to M20's? I'm going to put some speakers in my office at work and am deciding between a pair of M106's, M20's or KEF LS50's.
 

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Anyone have thoughts on how the M106 compares to M20's? I'm going to put some speakers in my office at work and am deciding between a pair of M106's, M20's or KEF LS50's.
Are you placing them on a shelf in front of a wall? Know that the M20s can position quite close to a back wall and near a side wall and sound wonderful. Fwiw, as the years have gone by, the M20 is still my favorite Revel bookshelf.
 

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Anyone have thoughts on how the M106 compares to M20's? I'm going to put some speakers in my office at work and am deciding between a pair of M106's, M20's or KEF LS50's.
Haven't compared them as the M20s were before my time with Revel :( Of course, the M106 represents a refinement of the M20 design. From my conversations with Kevin Voecks, the main differences in the Performa3 line is that they have wider and flatter dispersion than the previous generation.

I spent quite a bit of time listening to the KEFs at RMAF and thought they sounded quite good, but of course they were not side by side with M106s!

I checked on Soundstage.com, and NRC measurements are available for all three. Looks like the M106 and M20 measure the best out of the group - you can check for yourself:

http://www.soundstage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1358:nrc-measurements-revel-performa3-m106-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

http://www.soundstage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=941:nrc-measurements-kef-ls50-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

http://www.soundstage.com/measurements/revel_performa_m20/

The M20 has been discontinued for a while - do you have access to a used pair?

I've also attached Harman's own Spinorama data on the M106.
 

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Thanks for looking into this for me JOHN. I'll see what I can come up with. Ordered some outriggers from soundocity and will report back if they work out. Otherwise, will look for anchors.

Thanks for the information on Outriggers. Those look like great products! The flat ones may solve some safety issues with Revel F208 loudspeakers at my son's house with my grandchildren, and at a reasonable price.

http://www.soundocity.com/Flat_Strap_Outriggers.html

The spike bars look interesting as well for my own use. It would be handy to be able to adjust the elevation of the spikes without reaching under the speaker.
 

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Probably depends on room size, listening level, sub/no sub, etc.

I would give it a try and see.
I will also be up grading to F208's and C208 for our new home. I am using a Parasound A31 for the front three. It's currently driving my old NHT VT-2 towers and NHT center. It is an amazing amp and the power is more that enough. I have never used and AVR so I can't speak for their ability to drive the Revel's. It is likely worth giving it a try and if your don't like it make sure that you have the ability to return it.
 
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