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Hello all. I’m in the process of trying to decide what to replace my Dynaudio Contour 30s with. I keep coming back to the F228Be and M126Be. I really don’t want to spend $10k on just the R & L speakers but I am considering it. I have two concerns. I’d like any opinions on whether my Simaudio 600i would be a good match. I’d hate to get the F228Bes and figure out I need more power. The dealer I spoke with yesterday says it should be sufficient. Also is there any update on a matching center channel speaker? I’m curious also how M126Bes with a good sub would compare.
Thanks
 

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Hello all. I’m in the process of trying to decide what to replace my Dynaudio Contour 30s with. I keep coming back to the F228Be and M126Be. I really don’t want to spend $10k on just the R & L speakers but I am considering it. I have two concerns. I’d like any opinions on whether my Simaudio 600i would be a good match. I’d hate to get the F228Bes and figure out I need more power. The dealer I spoke with yesterday says it should be sufficient. Also is there any update on a matching center channel speaker? I’m curious also how M126Bes with a good sub would compare.
Thanks
I think you’ll be fine with that combination. I don’t really see any of the Performa 3 line to be overly difficult to drive and that includes the 228be
 

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Thanks for the feedback guys, it's interesting to get some owner's perspectives. I called Revel today, and they told me something similar as well. I think in this case, I might set my sights on the F228BE. My budget is $5K, but I would stretch it for truly high end experience. I've seen Salon 2s used for as low as $8K. I'm going to find some local dealers to audition.


Have you guys heard other speakers in the same price range to compare? For example Dynaudio Contour 60s, B&W 803 D3s (used), or GE Triton Reference?
A more comparable speaker to the 228be would be a used pair of Studio2s. Never quite as popular as the Salons, it will take some patience to find a pair but their resale puts them at a fair bit less than the Be228.
 

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Kevin Voecks (@avkv) has....

Greenhill: Why would a customer purchase a Salon2 if he knows that the less-expensive Studio2 [reviewed by Kalman Rubinson in March 2008—Ed.] incorporates the same design principles?

Voecks: The Salon2 moves more air and has greater output, particularly in the bass. The Salon2's three 8" woofers have a combined area equivalent to a 14" woofer, but the heat generated is spread out among three voice-coils. This means that you won't get the heat buildup that leads to dynamic compression. (As voice-coils heat up, impedance goes up and leads to a mismatch in a speaker's filter network.) The Salon2 is more resistant to dynamic compression than the Studio2 because it has more drivers to dissipate the heat. The Salon2 also has a smaller midrange than the Studio2. This leads to a better match between tweeter and midrange drivers, helping control the Salon2's off-axis response.

https://www.stereophile.com/interviews/608kev/index.html

All of Kevin’s points are well taken and valid. The reasons you may PREFER the Studio2s are:

1) far easier to drive with a saner impedance curve and higher efficiency. Those extra woofers in the Salon make it a tough drive and they soak up hundreds of watts before they really come alive.

2) if you have a smaller room, the Studios are easier to integrate both for WAF and bass. The Salons can easily overload a small room and are quite a bit taller as well. Also, if you already have decent subs, it’s allows more flex ability in room placement over a single fixed location such as the Salon, where you're stuck trying to compromise positioning of the mains for imaging AND best and smoothest bass output.

BUT if I had the right room......I would have the Salons, they are awesome! The Studios and now the 228be are still highly competent speakers however. Once the 228s start hitting the used market in a few years at the 5-6k range, there will be very little to compare at that price. Prepare for the deals!
 

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Anyone have experience comparing the Studio 2 and Salon 2? No dealers around here have either of them available for demo; but, I'm curious if anyone auditioned both.
Around where? In NYC, there is a Harman store with all the relevant speakers on hand.
 

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VERY good question for 20 year old speakers. Something comparable these days would be what, at least $5-10k? https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/96/index.html says they were $15k in like 1999. A lot of very nice technology. I recently heard F208 which has less and smaller drivers, and while nice looking not as cool as the Salons, $2500. My friends Focal 936s are really lovely at $4k.

Speakers don't really age much, unless they have foam surrounds or (decades on) their capacitors dry out. So if they sound great they sound great.

My advice is that if you really like how they sound (go listen more with more types of music, since you didn't do that), and like how they look, just get them and enjoy! Ask about return policy though as they may not sound as nice with your equipment in your room.
Salon 1s would have to be bought used, there is no return policy. And at 240lb per side, it's quite the heavy experiment to take. I think I'm leaning away from it.

Hello all. I’m in the process of trying to decide what to replace my Dynaudio Contour 30s with. I keep coming back to the F228Be and M126Be. I really don’t want to spend $10k on just the R & L speakers but I am considering it. I have two concerns. I’d like any opinions on whether my Simaudio 600i would be a good match. I’d hate to get the F228Bes and figure out I need more power. The dealer I spoke with yesterday says it should be sufficient. Also is there any update on a matching center channel speaker? I’m curious also how M126Bes with a good sub would compare.
Thanks
It's interesting to see another Dynaudio owner. I'm going through a bit of the same thing. What is it about the Contour 30s that made you decide to upgrade? What was it that drew you to Revels instead of moving up the line with Dynaudio?
 

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I list of dealers around the Bay area.
Yup. I've been through that list and spoken with most of the dealers on it. The best answer I got is that one of them has a pair of F228Be's on the way for their demo room; but, it'll be a while. No one has the Salon 2 or Studio 2 for demo. The best I can find available to demo today is the F208.
 

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1) far easier to drive with a saner impedance curve and higher efficiency. Those extra woofers in the Salon make it a tough drive and they soak up hundreds of watts before they really come alive.
My amp is a McIntosh MC452. 450 watts per channel. The math, even using the lower nominal sensitivity observed by SoundStage, says that I have more than enough power for the Salon 2. :)

2) if you have a smaller room, the Studios are easier to integrate both for WAF and bass. The Salons can easily overload a small room and are quite a bit taller as well. Also, if you already have decent subs, it’s allows more flex ability in room placement over a single fixed location such as the Salon, where you're stuck trying to compromise positioning of the mains for imaging AND best and smoothest bass output.
If I were to go with the Salon 2 over the Studio 2, it would be less for the lower extension and bass response and more for the smaller mid-range and enhanced crossover design. Whichever I end up with will be paired with dual subwoofers and I'll very likely end up with a HPF in the chain at 50hz to integrate the subwoofers more effectively.

My room is about 14.5 ft x 19.5 ft--probably right on the border of "large enough for the Salon 2"

Thanks for the notes and the discussion!
 

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Salon 1s would have to be bought used, there is no return policy. And at 240lb per side, it's quite the heavy experiment to take. I think I'm leaning away from it...
Sounds like a weighty decision! :p
How much did they want for those things? You can't go listen again? Because while they might not sound the same at home, I realized that of course that comment applies to ANY speaker you get.
 

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What was it that you found in Revel that you didn't in all the other well regarded speakers/brands?
I was told that Revel speakers are pretty power hungry, and the F228Be would require at least 200WPC. Salon 2s, at least 300-400. That would rule out a lot of amps like the Pass Lab XAs or most of the tube amps. What equipment have you found to be most synergistic with the Revels?
When I was looking to buy new speakers because we moved and downsized (I had to sell my Dunlavy SC-V's @ 330lb each and over 6' tall), all my research and years of experience lead me to Revel because of the design team, their goals and the fact they measure so well and sound great. Hearing them sealed the deal. The drivers, crossovers and cabinets are very good. The new Be speakers and the Studio2 and Salon2 are incrementally better than the F208's I currently own. The wave guide for the tweeter makes for a seamless transition to the midrange. The wide dispersion and smooth off axis response that mirrors the on axis response gives them a wide sweet spot with holographic stereo imaging. I worked for a high end A/V retailer for a while that had an amazing selection of speakers and had Studio2's on the floor, so I spent many hours listening and comparing them to everything else in the store. The thing that drew me to Revel is the fact that I can trust them to tell me what the recording sounds like. That's what I want from my playback equipment, the truth, nothing but the truth. As a recording engineer, I need speakers that are neutral so I can choose microphones and processing equipment to get the "sound" I want.

As far as power amps go, I use 150 watts/channel to drive my F208's and they get as loud as I can handle safely without clipping. There was a lot of discussion on this thread recently about power amps. Many feel it is difficult to hear differences between well designed amps that can handle the speaker load properly and have enough power to avoid clipping. As far as "synergy" goes, I feel all well designed audio equipment should interface with no problems. I used so much different equipment in my work as a recording and live sound engineer, I never had a problem with anything but tube amps trying to drive difficult speaker loads. Early in my career (ca 1976), I was stuck trying to drive PA speakers to high SPL's with small Dynaco tube amps. The amps were located in an equipment room off stage. I started hearing massive distortion through the speakers and ran to the amps to see what was happening. They were smoking when I got to them! That event did not end well and I insisted the department purchase new, powerful solid state amps. We got Dyanco 400's.

To further educate myself, I read Dr. Floyd Toole's book: "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms". I suggest everyone who is looking to buy speakers or improve the sound in their listening rooms read it. It will open your eyes about what goes into loudspeaker design, why and what measurements are important, what to listen for and help you optimize your setup and room acoustics which is paramount to getting the best sound from your system.
 

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To further educate myself, I read Dr. Floyd Toole's book: "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms". I suggest everyone who is looking to buy speakers or improve the sound in their listening rooms read it. It will open your eyes about what goes into loudspeaker design, why and what measurements are important, what to listen for and help you optimize your setup and room acoustics which is paramount to getting the best sound from your system.
I just bought a copy myself after watching Dr. Toole's presentation, "Sound Reproduction Art & Science / Opinions & Facts"


To take a truly scientific approach to speaker design and measurement is awesome. Thanks to Rex for pointing me in this direction!
 

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Salon 1s would have to be bought used, there is no return policy. And at 240lb per side, it's quite the heavy experiment to take. I think I'm leaning away from it.



It's interesting to see another Dynaudio owner. I'm going through a bit of the same thing. What is it about the Contour 30s that made you decide to upgrade? What was it that drew you to Revels instead of moving up the line with Dynaudio?
An aside... fwiw.

I bought my F208's in April after listening to the Contour 30's and others. The soft dome on the 30's, for me at least, was fatiguing. Definitely a YMMV. Having owned Snell speakers that had a metal dome tweeter, I was skeptical about Revel metal dome tweeters but it hasn't been an issue. 3 months into the Revels and no regrets.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
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I see some new folks asking about Revel speakers. Thought I'd post some info I used when I taught classes and trained my assistants.

Here are things I listen for when evaluating speakers, studio monitors or big PA systems.

1. Spectral Balance/Neutrality: frequency response (20 Hz – 20 kHz) bass, midrange, treble

2. Coloration: flat response, avoid boxy, boom, honky midrange, metallic or hard treble

3. Stereo Imaging: phantom center image, localization, depth, soundstage

4. Definition/clarity: fine details, balance of instrumentation

5. Transient response: drums, percussion, piano, tightness, overhang

6. Ambience and openness: reproduction of acoustic space, reverberation, sense of "air"

7. Dynamic Range: micro dynamics and macro dynamics, full dynamic range and good sound at all
levels

8. Driver blending: crossover, waveguides, transient blend, matched drivers, woofer should not lag
tweeter, dynamic balance (driver can't keep up), coherence (sounds real and whole, not hearing individual
drivers)

9. Distortion of any type is not acceptable. Slow sign wave sweeps can reveal cabinet resonances or drivers rubbing.

Equilateral triangle: 60 degree toe in angles. Distance between speakers is equal to distance from speaker to listening position. Distance to listening position from center between speakers is .866 times the distance from the speaker to the listener.

Distance between speakers (center of tweeter) / Distance from center to listener

8' / 6.9'

10' / 8.6'

12' / 10.4'

15' / 13'
 

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^Excellent list, Rex, and a step above what I used. :)

IMO it's also up to the potential buyer to identify source material that demonstrates these characteristics. This usually isn't too difficult but it does take a bit of time and thought.
 

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Where a lot of speakers, even expensive ones, fall down is in driver integration. As a singer or instrument moves up and down the scale any changes should be real and not caused by the speaker. Ditto the image, should not wander with pitch. I used to check with headphones and compare to the speakers but you also have to be very aware of how they are placed in the room and what the room is doing to the image. I used to use a lot of Sheffield recordings as they were recorded and mastered quite well. Toms and tympanies sounded right, cymbals have the sheen they should, etc. Except for that little burr on a couple of Amanda McBroom's first album when the mic overloaded (Doug was vexed but as a direct to disc no easy way to fix and they decided to leave it). Still, I knew it was there, and could discount it. I always chose something I knew extremely well for any sort of demo; you have no reference if you choose new material.
 
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I love my Revel F36 over Dynaudio Contour 30

Hello all. I’m in the process of trying to decide what to replace my Dynaudio Contour 30s with. I keep coming back to the F228Be and M126Be. I really don’t want to spend $10k on just the R & L speakers but I am considering it. I have two concerns. I’d like any opinions on whether my Simaudio 600i would be a good match. I’d hate to get the F228Bes and figure out I need more power. The dealer I spoke with yesterday says it should be sufficient. Also is there any update on a matching center channel speaker? I’m curious also how M126Bes with a good sub would compare.
Thanks
It's interesting to see another Dynaudio owner. I'm going through a bit of the same thing. What is it about the Contour 30s that made you decide to upgrade? What was it that drew you to Revels instead of moving up the line with Dynaudio?[/QUOTE]


Hello. I just sold the only Dynaudio I ever owned, which was the Contour 30s. I extensively read articles that Dynaudios are one of the best manufacturers for the money. Took a risk buying the Contour 30s, and I was somewhat disappointed with it. Before that, I used to own Martin Logan Spires ($8500) which had the 12in amplified subwoofer built in.

Ultimately I don't know my ears got used to Spires for long, Contours lacked bass. Big time. Sounded empty. I use a Marantz PM-10 Integrated Amp. But the detail, sound-staging, and treble quality were one of the best I have heard. I sold my Contours and downgraded to Revel F36s. I love these speakers! They are the best $1300 I have ever spent! They sound like $10k speakers! I liked them even more than the $7500 Contours! Revel F36s has a tad less detail in the upper range, but overall it sounds really good, with much better bass.



I am planning to get SVS SB-4000 Subwoofer to finish my music system. Perhaps JL Audio Sub e110 or e112.
 

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Ultimately I don't know my ears got used to Spires for long, Contours lacked bass. Big time. Sounded empty. I use a Marantz PM-10 Integrated Amp. But the detail, sound-staging, and treble quality were one of the best I have heard. I sold my Contours and downgraded to Revel F36s. I love these speakers! They are the best $1300 I have ever spent! They sound like $10k speakers! I liked them even more than the $7500 Contours! Revel F36s has a tad less detail in the upper range, but overall it sounds really good, with much better bass. [/QUOTE]

I purchased a pair of F36 Revel speakers last March. They are wonderful and I only wish I had purchased them when they were initially released. They provide great value for the money. It would be easy to spend much more to try, and possibly not even then, better them due to a combination of their value, plus the "law" of diminishing returns. I am using a new Outlaw RR2160 receiver (Peter Tribeman) to drive them and am very happy with the combination. I am on the wait list with Oppo for a UDP-205 for my 5.1 system and plan to move my existing Oppo BDP-95 to the Outlaw as soon as I receive it. Clarification: I hope that I am able to buy a 205 in August .

I liked the F36 speakers so much that I then purchased a pair of the new F228Be speakers as part of a 5.1 home theater system. I bought a C 208 for the center channel and the remainder of the speakers are also from the Performa 3 series. Since all of the speakers have similar timbre and sound, mixing speakers from different lines was not a problem for me.

The F228Be speakers, along with the various other 5.1 speakers, arrived this past Monday. I am very happy with them and have started trying a wide range of music and movies in order to hear what they can do. I can't wait for the weekend to arrive.

Various messages in the AVS Forum contributed to my eventual decision. I want to especially thank both Kal Rubinson and DonH50 for the information, interaction and help that they provided as I went about the process of determining what to purchase. Kal, your Music In The Round column in Stereophile has been very informative and continues to expand my knowledge of multichannel music options, recordings of interest, and various other hardware and software solutions. I am still catching up on some of the older articles and in general find them to be useful.
 
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