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I use the Revel W363, W563 and a center S16 wallmount. I can tell you the inwalls are EXCELLENT! Not sure I would do inwalls again though, since you have to cut the wall and if you need to remodel, will be a hassle. Still, they sound great. The W263 is a lower model then the ones I have but I can barely tell the difference, especially since I don't play it that loud.

I think the W253 would match very well with the W263.
I appreciate first hand account. The more I read about this brand, the more I am convinced this is the way to go.

Second question: I will be building backboxes in the wall to hold the inwall speakers and preserve my soundproofing efforts. I was looking but not finding any info on the appropriate cavity size desired for the W253? My room is new construction, so I can go as big or as small as needed. I just want to get the right size knowing that a typical install does not have a back box, but rather relies on the wall cavity.

Thanks.

Ethan
 

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Hi Revel owners/fans! Both Revel and Ascendspeakers seem to be highly recommended brands around AVSForum. In researching these, I stumbled on this quote by the owner of Ascend Acoustics:

David Fabrikant said:
I am highly skeptical of this claim: it is extraordinary at best (if true), and inflammatory and insulting at worst. If true, this claim would imply that the Ascend Sierra Tower RAAL ($2700/pair) would beat the Revel F206 ($3500/pair) in just about every way, since apparently the clarity and detail is superior (until you exceed the Revel Ultima series, apparently), and the quoted bass extension of the F206 (as opposed to the F208) is virtually identical to the Sierra Tower.

Given this quote/claim by such a well-known and respected figure, I'm actually quite surprised that I see very little comparison here or elsewhere between Revel and Ascend (the only thing I could find in searching this whole thread was some frequency response graphs here between a Revel F12 and Ascend Sierra 1), and no significant response to his (inflammatory? extraordinary?) claim here.

The reason this interests me so much is because I've actually been considering the purchase of a Revel F206 or Revel F208, or possibly an Ascend Sierra Tower RAAL, if it genuinely exceeds the Revel F206's performance. But it's very difficult for me to trust this claim at face value. Also, it appears that whenever someone asks on the Ascend Acoustics forum about comparison to a Revel speaker, the above quote from David Fabrikant is provided as the final nail in the thread's coffin, to be interpreted as authoritative proof that Ascend destroys anything from Revel under $20,000!

I just want to understand the truth, and how these actually compare (Revel F206 vs Ascend Sierra Tower RAAL). It seems to me that such a comparison would be extremely appropriate, fair, and "apples-to-apples", because:


  • Both speakers have virtually identical anechoic frequency response @+-3db.
  • Both speakers openly state the objective of achieving sound replication that is flat / neutral / uncolored.
  • Both brands are frequently highly recommended here on AVSForum and elsewhere.
  • Both brands claim to outperform other brands costing much more.
  • Price difference falls within a factor of 2x, so it's not totally absurd to entertain the comparison.
  • Ascend Acoustics' owner has made specific claims that their speakers outperform Revel in this ~2x ballpark price range.
 

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Your receiver is rated at 140 wpc with two channels driven. It will be far less than that driving all 11, probably closer to 75. So I would think that you would want a 2 or 3 channel amp driving the front speakers to get the most out of your investment in speakers. You want to be able to crank that system, and with just the receiver powering things, you are going to get unwanted distortion at high volumes.
As the C208 will be the speaker most used in cinema/TV, and the F228Be(s) use a bit of current, I would suggest an amplifier of sufficient current for all three front channel speakers, something that doubles wattage from 8 ohm to 4 ohm ratings. A Parasound A23 should suit you well, or something of equivalent quality.


You might also consider a mildly used good 5 channel amplifier as the transformer could be sufficiently robust to meet your needs. There are few moving parts in an amplifier so, aside from capacitor aging used better quality amplifiers could meet your need.
 

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Hi Revel owners/fans! Both Revel and Ascendspeakers seem to be highly recommended brands around AVSForum. In researching these, I stumbled on this quote by the owner of Ascend Acoustics:



I am highly skeptical of this claim: it is extraordinary at best (if true), and inflammatory and insulting at worst. If true, this claim would imply that the Ascend Sierra Tower RAAL ($2700/pair) would beat the Revel F206 ($3500/pair) in just about every way, since apparently the clarity and detail is superior (until you exceed the Revel Ultima series, apparently), and the quoted bass extension of the F206 (as opposed to the F208) is virtually identical to the Sierra Tower.

Given this quote/claim by such a well-known and respected figure, I'm actually quite surprised that I see very little comparison here or elsewhere between Revel and Ascend (the only thing I could find in searching this whole thread was some frequency response graphs here between a Revel F12 and Ascend Sierra 1), and no significant response to his (inflammatory? extraordinary?) claim here.

The reason this interests me so much is because I've actually been considering the purchase of a Revel F206 or Revel F208, or possibly an Ascend Sierra Tower RAAL, if it genuinely exceeds the Revel F206's performance. But it's very difficult for me to trust this claim at face value. Also, it appears that whenever someone asks on the Ascend Acoustics forum about comparison to a Revel speaker, the above quote from David Fabrikant is provided as the final nail in the thread's coffin, to be interpreted as authoritative proof that Ascend destroys anything from Revel under $20,000!

I just want to understand the truth, and how these actually compare (Revel F206 vs Ascend Sierra Tower RAAL). It seems to me that such a comparison would be extremely appropriate, fair, and "apples-to-apples", because:


  • Both speakers have virtually identical anechoic frequency response @+-3db.
  • Both speakers openly state the objective of achieving sound replication that is flat / neutral / uncolored.
  • Both brands are frequently highly recommended here on AVSForum and elsewhere.
  • Both brands claim to outperform other brands costing much more.
  • Price difference falls within a factor of 2x, so it's not totally absurd to entertain the comparison.
  • Ascend Acoustics' owner has made specific claims that their speakers outperform Revel in this ~2x ballpark price range.

The Sierra tower, from the measurements on their own website, has worse directivity properties than the F206. The measurements they offer, although useful, are quite limited. I doubt it would beat the F206 in a blind test.
 

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They are probably few folk who have compared the two speakers in a live demo. My limited experience with small ribbon tweeters is that they are pretty directive, with little vertical dispersion, so getting them at ear level and properly aimed is more critical than for domes. My last speakers used a line ribbon source (57" tall) so didn't really have that issue. If Ascend is looking to compare to a reference they need to beat, then I am glad they are referencing Revel. :)
 

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Well, I pulled the trigger and bought the F228 Be's and the C208. For the Surrounds I have four 763s and in the ceiling I have four 563s. I also have two Revel B120s. I will be driving them with a Denon AVR x6400h which is rated at 140 wpc. Everything is still in boxes except the subs which are carryovers. Room construction is about to begin. The room is approximately 22x22 with a 12 ft. ceiling. The room will have a 120" screen so that means the fronts will be about 9.25 feet apart. My question is do I need a power amp to get the power I need for the F228's or will the Denon power them just fine? I can get a good deal on a new Rotel RB 1590 but I don't want to spend the money unnecessarily. If I do need the power amp will I need one to power the center or will the Denon have enough to power the center? Usage will be 50/50 music and HT. All advice is most appreciated.
I would recommend a good amp for at least the front L/C/R. We like ATI power amps, they make both Class AB and NCore.

https://www.ati-amp.com/home.php
 

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Hi Revel owners/fans! Both Revel and Ascendspeakers seem to be highly recommended brands around AVSForum. In researching these, I stumbled on this quote by the owner of Ascend Acoustics:



I am highly skeptical of this claim: it is extraordinary at best (if true), and inflammatory and insulting at worst. If true, this claim would imply that the Ascend Sierra Tower RAAL ($2700/pair) would beat the Revel F206 ($3500/pair) in just about every way, since apparently the clarity and detail is superior (until you exceed the Revel Ultima series, apparently), and the quoted bass extension of the F206 (as opposed to the F208) is virtually identical to the Sierra Tower.

Given this quote/claim by such a well-known and respected figure, I'm actually quite surprised that I see very little comparison here or elsewhere between Revel and Ascend (the only thing I could find in searching this whole thread was some frequency response graphs here between a Revel F12 and Ascend Sierra 1), and no significant response to his (inflammatory? extraordinary?) claim here.

The reason this interests me so much is because I've actually been considering the purchase of a Revel F206 or Revel F208, or possibly an Ascend Sierra Tower RAAL, if it genuinely exceeds the Revel F206's performance. But it's very difficult for me to trust this claim at face value. Also, it appears that whenever someone asks on the Ascend Acoustics forum about comparison to a Revel speaker, the above quote from David Fabrikant is provided as the final nail in the thread's coffin, to be interpreted as authoritative proof that Ascend destroys anything from Revel under $20,000!

I just want to understand the truth, and how these actually compare (Revel F206 vs Ascend Sierra Tower RAAL). It seems to me that such a comparison would be extremely appropriate, fair, and "apples-to-apples", because:


  • Both speakers have virtually identical anechoic frequency response @+-3db.
  • Both speakers openly state the objective of achieving sound replication that is flat / neutral / uncolored.
  • Both brands are frequently highly recommended here on AVSForum and elsewhere.
  • Both brands claim to outperform other brands costing much more.
  • Price difference falls within a factor of 2x, so it's not totally absurd to entertain the comparison.
  • Ascend Acoustics' owner has made specific claims that their speakers outperform Revel in this ~2x ballpark price range.


You can’t judge a speaker by specs alone. You have to listen to them to know what you like. It’s no surprise that an Internet Direct company rep would try to convince you otherwise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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You can’t judge a speaker by specs alone. You have to listen to them to know what you like. It’s no surprise that an Internet Direct company rep would try to convince you otherwise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Is there a spinorama for the Ascend Sierra Tower RAAL speakers? That might be interesting to compare to the F208 spin.
 

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Hi Revel owners/fans! Both Revel and Ascendspeakers seem to be highly recommended brands around AVSForum. In researching these, I stumbled on this quote by the owner of Ascend Acoustics:



I am highly skeptical of this claim: it is extraordinary at best (if true), and inflammatory and insulting at worst. If true, this claim would imply that the Ascend Sierra Tower RAAL ($2700/pair) would beat the Revel F206 ($3500/pair) in just about every way, since apparently the clarity and detail is superior (until you exceed the Revel Ultima series, apparently), and the quoted bass extension of the F206 (as opposed to the F208) is virtually identical to the Sierra Tower.
I remember that thread but if you read on you'll see some posters clarified that he meant the original Ultima series, not Ultima2, so even if it is true it is irrelevant to todays speakers. I would also be very surprised if they beat the F206 towers, it would be nice to have a Harman spinorama of the towers and Sierra 2, the measurements they show are very limited. I admit I bought into the RAAL hype and bought a pair last year but I was pretty disappointed. Some recent comments by Dr. Toole confirmed my suspicion that there is nothing special about ribbons or any specific transducer type or material.
 

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How does this amp compare the Emotiva XPA-DR3?
Hi, I do not have any direct experience with that Emotiva Amp, however, I did notice it has a Class "H" topology which the AudioControl Savoy G3 I own also has. The ATI NCore is a "D" Class and I actually own several of both the 200W RMS and 500W RMS versions. In my experience the ATI has a more consistent power output when compared to the AudioControl. I'm not sure if that's true of all "H" Class amps or just the AC in particular but I'm actually in the process of changing it out for another ATI NCore. The ATI also gives off almost no heat and the chassis size is much more compact which is helpful in that you can almost stack multiple amps and your processor when configuring without much concern for heat or rack/cabinet space. I have had Pass Labs amps in the past and, for me, the ATI is a tremendous bang for the buck that I have no regrets moving to. I think the audio quality and performance is solid at that price point.

Hope this helps....
 
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Hi, I do not have any direct experience with that Emotiva Amp, however, I did notice it has a Class "H" topology which the AudioControl Savoy G3 I own also has. The ATI NCore is a "D" Class and I actually own several of both the 200W RMS and 500W RMS versions. In my experience the ATI has a more consistent power output when compared to the AudioControl. I'm not sure if that's true of all "H" Class amps or just the AC in particular but I'm actually in the process of changing it out for another ATI NCore. The ATI also gives off almost no heat and the chassis size is much more compact which is helpful in that you can almost stack multiple amps and your processor when configuring without much concern for heat or rack/cabinet space. I have had Pass Labs amps in the past and, for me, the ATI is a tremendous bang for the buck that I have no regrets moving to. I think the audio quality and performance is solid at that price point.

Hope this helps....
Thanks for your quick reply. I will definitely look at the ATI amps. I was looking at the Rotel 1590 for 1899.00 but I would still need an amp for my center channel.
 

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Both speakers have virtually identical anechoic frequency response @+-3db.
No they don't. The +/-3 numbers aren't useful at all. The only measurements I see from a quick search come from the manufacturer, where there's a large drop in off axis response around 1-3khz, and then again start from 5khz, which is a bit early. Those dips should definitely be audible. Compare those with F206's measurements which show a smooth off axis response dropoff.

Both brands are frequently highly recommended here on AVSForum and elsewhere.
That seems an overstatement. For Revel, all major magazines have measured and recommended them. I can't find a single review with measurements for the comparison brand.

Ascend Acoustics' owner has made specific claims that their speakers outperform Revel in this ~2x ballpark price range.
Well sure, it's the owner!
 

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I had Genelec S30D monitors with a ribbon tweeter in a wave guide. The dispersion of the tweeter did not mate well with the midrange driver and it was audible.

Revel speakers have the most seamless transition from tweeter to midrange I have heard. This is due to the waveguide and crossover design. Good engineering.

I do not see spin data for the Ascend speakers. The on axis and other measurements they show do not tell enough information.
 

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I think most agree revel speakers sound good, some great...but the sound signature isnt for everyone..I dont knock them, they a high quality speaker that I think about upgrading to all the time with their be lineup.
 
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I compared the Ascend RAAL towers to the F208 in my room, both sighted and blind over a period of about 3 weeks. The F208s went back, I strongly preferred the Ascends in both sighted and blind testing.

Of course this will not be the case for everyone, as evidenced by @aarons915's experience that made him just a little bitter :D

That seems an overstatement. For Revel, all major magazines have measured and recommended them. I can't find a single review with measurements for the comparison brand.
Eh, Ascend is a tiny company that doesn't advertise or send their speakers to be reviewed like other companies.
 
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I compared the Ascend RAAL towers to the F208 in my room, both sighted and blind over a period of about 3 weeks. The F208s went back, I strongly preferred the Ascends in both sighted and blind testing.

Of course this will not be the case for everyone, as evidenced by @aarons915's experience that made him just a little bitter :D



Eh, Ascend is a tiny company that doesn't advertise or send their speakers to be reviewed like other companies.
Philharmonic Audio is a much smaller company and their BMR got reviewed by Audioholics so it's possible. Do you have a write-up of your comparison by the way? I haven't seen those compared so I'd definitely be curious. What experience exactly are you talking about also? If it's the fact that I bought some RAAL bookshelf speakers based on forum hype and lost a couple hundred bucks reselling them yes that did make me a bit bitter but really it was disappointment after all the positive things I've heard about the RAAL tweeter.
 

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I remember that thread but if you read on you'll see some posters clarified that he meant the original Ultima series, not Ultima2, so even if it is true it is irrelevant to todays speakers. I would also be very surprised if they beat the F206 towers,
True, but comparisons to the original Ultima series aside, he did specifically claim that the Ascend RAAL Towers beats the Revel F208 in clarity and detail "in his professional opinion". This particular claim is what I'm most interested in either confirming or debunking. These are very comparable speakers as well, aiming for very similar goals.

No they don't. The +/-3 numbers aren't useful at all. The only measurements I see from a quick search come from the manufacturer, where there's a large drop in off axis response around 1-3khz, and then again start from 5khz, which is a bit early. Those dips should definitely be audible. Compare those with F206's measurements which show a smooth off axis response dropoff.
Fair point, but keep in mind I'm not here to defend Ascend or Revel (given that I've heard neither): I just said that both manufacturers claim to have the same bass extension ratings on their product spec pages (in fact, Ascend claims 1hz deeper bass estension than Revel claims for the F206)! If Ascend's product specs are dishonest or inflated, then that's +1 point for Revel for honesty, and -1 for Ascend for inflating their specs.

I compared the Ascend RAAL towers to the F208 in my room, both sighted and blind over a period of about 3 weeks. The F208s went back, I strongly preferred the Ascends in both sighted and blind testing.
This is very interesting, and not what I would expect from measurements or the common sentiment outside of the Ascend forums. Could you perhaps explain in any more depth what you liked more about the Ascend RAAL towers?

I'm trying to find a way to listen to the Revel F206/F208 locally, but they're hard to find as opposed to Bowers and Wilkins (which I already have, as a result), Sonus Faber, KEF, and a few others which are available locally to listen to in the same room. And Ascend's are virtually impossible to listen to since they're internet direct. I own the B&W 702 S2, but am looking for a similarly priced set of other speakers for another room, and I want to try something potentially more neutral than my 702 S2's. The Revel F208 was recommended to me in another thread as something 'better' than the 702 S2 for similar price, which is what inspired my research here.

Purely from online reviews among speakers I've not heard yet, my bias is definitely in favor of the Revel purely from reviews and measurements I've read online, but am open to the possibility that at least some people would prefer the Ascend. I'm just curious why that might be, since the measurements don't seem to bear that out, as others have posted above.
 
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