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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
For requests I post this review / comparison of these four HT preamps. I did extensive testing with Anthem, Lexicon, NAD and Lyngdorf, and it has been quite a teaching process. I did lots of music listening tests, AB and ABX blind tests and ~50 measurements with REW.

Listening test without any sound improvents


Anthem is widely praised in reviews and forums. It was by far the worst sounding of the bunch; harsh and unmusical. It just sounded like your average ~1000€ Marantz HT-amp nothing more, nothing less. Also it had really cheap feel; plastic "china" front with cheap buttons.

Lexicon had goodish sound, but as preamplifier, its input "logic" is very dubious. For example: it has 6 hdmi imputs, 2 coaxical and 2 optical inputs. but for example if you use optical input which is hard associated to "VCR" you cannot use hdmi connection without lexicon automatically using optical input "VCR" for hdmi audio. which means lexicon has far less inputs than it advertises.

NAD...I so much wanted to fall in love with NAD. It looks absolutely stunning, it is fully balanced and has tri burrbrown DACs, identical to Lyngdorf and Lyngodf costs 3 times more!!! But when I got it...well it sounded good but not best. I must say it has good stereo imaging but sound stage is narrow and unmusical.

Which brings us to Lyngdorf. Oh boy has it been honeymoon after the first nanosecond I listened this beauty. The sound of Lyngdorf is so musical that you just wont want to stop listening it...I have certain tracks which I listen in listening tests; I have "memorized" all the certain nyances of these tracks so A/B listening is more reasonable. But every time when I did listening test, I listened whole tracks because it just sounds so god damn beautiful. It has excellent stereo imaging and amazing sound stage.

..And this brings me and us to a big question; how the hell can Lyngdorf be light years apart from sound quality than NAD? They are both fully balanced and have IDENTICAL DACS! I don't know the answer, but I suspect it is the synergy of preamp - amp - speaker chain. Lyngdorf - Luxman - Yamaha NS-1000m seems to be extremely synergous. Other explanation could be just speakers; Yammies are known to be extremely revealing and I do have acoustically treated room... Of cource you'll be the judge for what is the reason but I must point out that sound quality difference between NAD and Lyngdorf was so obvious that I got 20/20 right from sound level calibrated A/B and ABX tests. It was super easy.

Room Correction:

I did do room correction with DIRAC and ROOM PERFECT quite a lot and did measurements with REW as well as listening tests. Quickly it became very obvious that Lyngdorfs Room Perfect is heaven scent. Difference to Dirac is absolutely ridiculous. Why? Because DIRAC did not get PRaT to work, not even close. What Dirac did was equalizing my stereo subs (2x Arendal 1.5) with mains (Yamaha NS-1000m) but bass was muddy and there was no sign of PRaT. But Room Perfect.....buy oh boy that PRaT factor! What RP clearly does that DIRAC seems to be completely missing is timing. And this is what the consensus seems to be in Lyngdorf MP-50 AVS forum thread.

Verdict:

I hope this review has been beneficial to you. This is probably salty to many readers, but I must emphasize that this is merely my opinion and experience. And it was biased; I wanted to buy pre-pro with ~4000€ price range. Instead paid 12000€ for Lyngdorf which is by far the most expensive single component of my High-End system (My Luxman amp is 7000€). But it was by far the best buying decision I have made and it is extremely hard to imagine wanting to swap this pre-pro in anytime for ten years. Want to buy HT-pre pro? Get as many preamps you can for testing and do your own tests to find out what pre is best for your equipment and taste.


Test Setup:
- Listening room: Acoustically treated ~20 m2 room
- Main Speakers: Yamaha NS-1000M with updated crossovers designed by Troel Gravensen
- Surround Speakers: Yamaha NS-1000M with modern crossover (original design)
- Power Amplifier: Luxman M-70F (7W Class A, 200W Class B)
- Subwoofers: 2x Arendal 1723 subwoofer 1.5 (closed box design)
- Listening test music tracks: Pink Floyd - High Hopes, Emilie Claire Barlow - The very thought of you, Daft Punk - The Game of love
 

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This goes to show that DAC implementation is more important than chipset (which has stated by TI DAC engineering). On paper the NAD M17 is the superior chipset.

DACs:

NAD M15HD/HD2: PCM1796

NAD M17: PCM1792

NAD AM17 Atmos & Dirac MDC: PCM1796

Lyngdorf MP-50: PCM1796


I listed the M15HD & AM17 as it is what I own in addition to the MP-50.

Utilizing Google voice recoginition. Please excuse any errors.
 

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I did lots of music listening tests, AB and ABX blind tests and ~50 measurements with REW.e very thought of you, Daft Punk - The Game of love

How did you match levels?

What switch did you use for ABX?

Do the “~50 measurements” show any differences? Especially interested in differences post Dirac and RP.
 

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For requests I post this review / comparison of these four HT preamps. I did extensive testing with Anthem, Lexicon, NAD and Lyngdorf, and it has been quite a teaching process. I did lots of music listening tests, AB and ABX blind tests and ~50 measurements with REW.

Listening test without any sound improvents


Anthem is widely praised in reviews and forums. It was by far the worst sounding of the bunch; harsh and unmusical. It just sounded like your average ~1000€ Marantz HT-amp nothing more, nothing less. Also it had really cheap feel; plastic "china" front with cheap buttons.

Lexicon had goodish sound, but as preamplifier, its input "logic" is very dubious. For example: it has 6 hdmi imputs, 2 coaxical and 2 optical inputs. but for example if you use optical input which is hard associated to "VCR" you cannot use hdmi connection without lexicon automatically using optical input "VCR" for hdmi audio. which means lexicon has far less inputs than it advertises.

NAD...I so much wanted to fall in love with NAD. It looks absolutely stunning, it is fully balanced and has tri burrbrown DACs, identical to Lyngdorf and Lyngodf costs 3 times more!!! But when I got it...well it sounded good but not best. I must say it has good stereo imaging but sound stage is narrow and unmusical.

Which brings us to Lyngdorf. Oh boy has it been honeymoon after the first nanosecond I listened this beauty. The sound of Lyngdorf is so musical that you just wont want to stop listening it...I have certain tracks which I listen in listening tests; I have "memorized" all the certain nyances of these tracks so A/B listening is more reasonable. But every time when I did listening test, I listened whole tracks because it just sounds so god damn beautiful. It has excellent stereo imaging and amazing sound stage.

..And this brings me and us to a big question; how the hell can Lyngdorf be light years apart from sound quality than NAD? They are both fully balanced and have IDENTICAL DACS! I don't know the answer, but I suspect it is the synergy of preamp - amp - speaker chain. Lyngdorf - Luxman - Yamaha NS-1000m seems to be extremely synergous. Other explanation could be just speakers; Yammies are known to be extremely revealing and I do have acoustically treated room... Of cource you'll be the judge for what is the reason but I must point out that sound quality difference between NAD and Lyngdorf was so obvious that I got 20/20 right from sound level calibrated A/B and ABX tests. It was super easy.

Room Correction:

I did do room correction with DIRAC and ROOM PERFECT quite a lot and did measurements with REW as well as listening tests. Quickly it became very obvious that Lyngdorfs Room Perfect is heaven scent. Difference to Dirac is absolutely ridiculous. Why? Because DIRAC did not get PRaT to work, not even close. What Dirac did was equalizing my stereo subs (2x Arendal 1.5) with mains (Yamaha NS-1000m) but bass was muddy and there was no sign of PRaT. But Room Perfect.....buy oh boy that PRaT factor! What RP clearly does that DIRAC seems to be completely missing is timing. And this is what the consensus seems to be in Lyngdorf MP-50 AVS forum thread.

Verdict:

I hope this review has been beneficial to you. This is probably salty to many readers, but I must emphasize that this is merely my opinion and experience. And it was biased; I wanted to buy pre-pro with ~4000€ price range. Instead paid 12000€ for Lyngdorf which is by far the most expensive single component of my High-End system (My Luxman amp is 7000€). But it was by far the best buying decision I have made and it is extremely hard to imagine wanting to swap this pre-pro in anytime for ten years. Want to buy HT-pre pro? Get as many preamps you can for testing and do your own tests to find out what pre is best for your equipment and taste.


Test Setup:
- Listening room: Acoustically treated ~20 m2 room
- Main Speakers: Yamaha NS-1000M with updated crossovers designed by Troel Gravensen
- Surround Speakers: Yamaha NS-1000M with modern crossover (original design)
- Power Amplifier: Luxman M-70F (7W Class A, 200W Class B)
- Subwoofers: 2x Arendal 1723 subwoofer 1.5 (closed box design)
- Listening test music tracks: Pink Floyd - High Hopes, Emilie Claire Barlow - The very thought of you, Daft Punk - The Game of love
Did you do Atmos movies or just try music with these PrePros? Cause things like steering and such are important for movies as how room correction helps integrate the speakers in surround sound. This sounds strictly for music . And I was unaware Yamaha made top of the line speakers . Guess somethings change. Luxman does make excellent amps. I went with Hegel P30 preamp with home theater bypass to play music as I found most PrePros just do not do that great job with music.
 

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Does the MP-50 have anything that resembles the Lexicon's Logic7? I need a Pre/Pro that delivers a realistic sound field for stereo sourced material using all of my speakers.
 

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Depends what you mean by resemble, but in any case it has Dolby Surround, DTS Neural:X, and Auro upmixers.


Does the MP-50 have anything that resembles the Lexicon's Logic7? I need a Pre/Pro that delivers a realistic sound field for stereo sourced material using all of my speakers.
 

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So just the standard present day 3rd party upmixers? It does not have anything proprietary or company brewed on it that does this?

In addition to the upmixers it can matrix additional channels.

For example (and a big attraction for me) is that if you have Wide speakers, you can derive a matrixed signal for them when using the Dolby upmixer, which does not support wides.
 

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Literally laughed out loud at the thought of anthem being "harsh."

This place is a blast.

Dunno. Yeah, the finish isn't exactly Mercedes-Benz, but I don't find anything harsh about the performance of the AVM60, at least not in my system. I cab only guess though at what harsh means. Well, each to their own! :)
 

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So these are the speakers you ran your "blind tests" with?
https://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/yamaha_ns1000m_passive_e.html


Here are some quotes from that review of the Yamaha's
Indeed, The Yamaha NS1000M has a forward midrange when the level controls are supposed to be flat. Setting the midrange control one or two positions down sounds more balanced. Whether the treble needs the same adjustment, varies with listener and recorded material. The usually magnificent 55Wpc Canor TP106VR+ struggled to drive these ostensibly 90dB sensitivity boxes to your Old Scribe's definition of 'realistic levels'. Smaller single ended triode valve amplifiers (6080 or 300B) failed to get them off the ground at all. However, one visitor used terms like "ear splitting" and "tinnitus" to describe your Old Scribe's definition of 'realistic', when visiting during the tests.

From the outset, an obvious and weak area of Yamaha NS1000M performance is the high treble. The combination of the Dynavector XX2 MkII and the beryllium tweeters tend to exaggerate surface noise but not just because these loudspeakers are otherwise so revealing. Above 10kHz there is little information competing with some strong resonances, judged by today's standards, but still superior to any soft dome. Some frequency sweeps were run to identify whether this is a sample problem (due to age) or inherent in the design. Above 10kHz the response drops quickly before rising to a rough sounding peak at about 16kHz which will upset younger listeners more. The response then plummets to inaudibility before 20kHz. The 16kKz resonance is more audible at high volumes; perhaps the tweeter resistor heats up and changes value.

Also subjective;
NAD...I so much wanted to fall in love with NAD. It looks absolutely stunning

Also it had really cheap feel; plastic "china" front with cheap buttons.

Which Lexicon by the way?


How did Anthem's ARC sound in your room?
 

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In addition to the upmixers it can matrix additional channels.

For example (and a big attraction for me) is that if you have Wide speakers, you can derive a matrixed signal for them when using the Dolby upmixer, which does not support wides.

Forgot to mention that the MP-50 will also generate matrix wides with *native* Atmos tracks as well.
 

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Does the MP-50 have anything that resembles the Lexicon's Logic7? I need a Pre/Pro that delivers a realistic sound field for stereo sourced material using all of my speakers.
I would say auro music mode comes about as close as I've heard to anthem's logic. I still like anthem's logic more, but auro gets pretty close.
 

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I would say auro music mode comes about as close as I've heard to anthem's logic. I still like anthem's logic more, but auro gets pretty close.
Do you mean Auro-Matic 2D & 3D? I liked Anthem Logic a lot, but I'd give the edge to Auro. The 4 room presets + 16 upmixing signal level options give it the user the ability to season to taste.
 

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Do you mean Auro-Matic 2D & 3D? I liked Anthem Logic a lot, but I'd give the edge to Auro. The 4 room presets + 16 upmixing signal level options give it the user the ability to season to taste.
Yes, and I was speaking more towards my previous implementation of auro decoding on the Marantz 7704 unit I owned, which didn't have the presets or upmixing which I would agree should definitely give it the edge with that additional type of capability.
 

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Did somebody had the chance to compare the MP-50 against the Trinnov16?

My question is only regarding the SQ. I don't need all the bells and whistles, for me the most important is the sound.

I bought the MP-50 a few months ago to use in my HT room wich isn't ready yet so I could not test it. Now I'm wondering if I made a mistake by not buying the Trinnov16.
 
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