AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 199 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,081 Posts
I want one of the reviewer's Samsung T165 HD receivers.

I have two an neither of my t165's will work with Directv,

maybe I just need to connect the dish ;)

Quote:
I found that my Samsung SIR-T165 DirecTV receiver needed a TosLink rather than coaxial digital connection to insure hum-free operation.
For those that don't know, The Samsung t165 is an ota (Over The Air) only receiver.

It will not work with any satellite service.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,439 Posts
Hopefully, all those bright lights on the front are adjustable. ;)


He said they had to send him another unit to get the latest software. And he didn't mention whether it's software upgradeable or not. ??
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
34 Posts
Wow 4 Pre/Pros and 2 amps with dead channels! One during review and one during the measurement testing. Hope they have a good supply of replacement units.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,351 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nurk Twins
Wow 4 Pre/Pros and 2 amps with dead channels! One during review and one during the measurement testing. Hope they have a good supply of replacement units.
What did they do? Re-assign the goons that were wiring the Rocket speakers out of phase over to the Emotiva assembly line?


:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
34 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wje
What did they do? Re-assign the goons that were wiring the Rocket speakers out of phase over to the Emotiva assembly line?


:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Probably mistakenly sent 6 photo samples.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,449 Posts
No room/speaker EQ? That kills it for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin C Brown
Hopefully, all those bright lights on the front are adjustable. ;)


He said they had to send him another unit to get the latest software. And he didn't mention whether it's software upgradeable or not. ??
The lights on the DMC-1 & MPS-1 are all adjustable and can even be turned off. The units are SW upgradeable too.


Arnold
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
34 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajunlab
That's the closest thing to a bad review I've seen in a while.

Maybe there is hope for the audio press yet.
Not terrible. The amp was liked even though it apparently doesn't work. The Pre was pretty savaged though. Stone's a tough and fair reviewer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
On the whole, I think it is a well balanced and reasonable review. The DMC-1 seems like an OK preamp/processor despite some missing features. In its price range it certainly is competitive with most of the stuff out there.


However, the power amp appears a bit disappointing. This is the second time the amplifier failed to make its published specs on power and noise. (Audioholics also got similar measurements) It appears that this amp is more like 7x175wpc-not 200.wpc. Also the measured noise is way off their claim. The amp seemed to sound OK. So,why can't they just come clean with their claimed specs. Those guys should know better by now that they will be called on their inflated published numbers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CEGUY
On the whole, I think it is a well balanced and reasonable review. The DMC-1 seems like an OK preamp/processor despite some missing features. In its price range it certainly is competitive with most of the stuff out there.


However, the power amp appears a bit disappointing. This is the second time the amplifier failed to make its published specs on power and noise. (Audioholics also got similar measurements) It appears that this amp is more like 7x175wpc-not 200.wpc. Also the measured noise is way off their claim. The amp seemed to sound OK. So,why can't they just come clean with their claimed specs. Those guys should know better by now that they will be called on their inflated published numbers
That's not entirely true. Our measurement techniques may vary from the reviewer and this would lead to the variance in actual numbers. It does not look like the follow up from our engineering staff was put in that review so I can post it here.


"In regards to your measured power output of the MPS-1 I can not refute or agree with your measurements. That is, your test setup is somewhat vague in your report. Two key items are critical for me to know to duplicate your results. a) Was the input AC voltage source fixed at 120Vac? b) How were you determining 1% distortion? In our labs we fix the AC input voltage to 120Vac using a Variac W10MT3A Autotransformer. This is essential for a consistent and repeatable measurement. By having the AC line voltage sag only a few volts will cause the power measurement to be lower than expected. Additionally we measure the power output using an Audio Precision System One + DSP. Attached is a power output as a function of input voltage as well as THD+N as a function of input voltage. The load is 4 ohms non-inductive, the input AC voltage is fixed at 120Vac, the input frequency is 1Khz. It is not my intention to dispute your measurement as I am sure your measurement is valid for your test setup. My intent is to point out how we derived our measurement, which is consistent with many other reputable companies in audio.


As I side note I would like to point out that the EPM-300 module employs a sophisticated output limiter to virtually eliminate output clipping. The limiter itself is highly dependent on the input AC voltage. If the input voltage is 110Vac the amplifier output voltage swing can not achieve its maximum before it flattens out (clips). The limiter senses this flatting out (clip condition) and maintains a constant output voltage swing of less than 2% THD+N. The designers at Emotiva felt the limiter function is a valuable featured essentially protecting the end user from damaging their speakers. It is one of many design philosophies used to make what we consider a very robust and “forgiving†product."
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
34 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Marberry
That's not entirely true. Our measurement techniques may vary from the reviewer and this would lead to the variance in actual numbers. It does not look like the follow up from our engineering staff was put in that review so I can post it here.


"In regards to your measured power output of the MPS-1 I can not refute or agree with your measurements. That is, your test setup is somewhat vague in your report. Two key items are critical for me to know to duplicate your results. a) Was the input AC voltage source fixed at 120Vac? b) How were you determining 1% distortion? In our labs we fix the AC input voltage to 120Vac using a Variac W10MT3A Autotransformer. This is essential for a consistent and repeatable measurement. By having the AC line voltage sag only a few volts will cause the power measurement to be lower than expected. Additionally we measure the power output using an Audio Precision System One + DSP. Attached is a power output as a function of input voltage as well as THD+N as a function of input voltage. The load is 4 ohms non-inductive, the input AC voltage is fixed at 120Vac, the input frequency is 1Khz. It is not my intention to dispute your measurement as I am sure your measurement is valid for your test setup. My intent is to point out how we derived our measurement, which is consistent with many other reputable companies in audio.


As I side note I would like to point out that the EPM-300 module employs a sophisticated output limiter to virtually eliminate output clipping. The limiter itself is highly dependent on the input AC voltage. If the input voltage is 110Vac the amplifier output voltage swing can not achieve its maximum before it flattens out (clips). The limiter senses this flatting out (clip condition) and maintains a constant output voltage swing of less than 2% THD+N. The designers at Emotiva felt the limiter function is a valuable featured essentially protecting the end user from damaging their speakers. It is one of many design philosophies used to make what we consider a very robust and “forgiving†product."
Not only does it not meet spec it blows up...not once but twice.


Comment: We were surprised to see an amplifier channel fail on the test bench. This is rare, but test-bench procedures do stress an amplifier to the max—a situation rarely encountered in real-world operation at 20Hz with all seven amps operating. But the defective module SS experienced in the same amplifier bay does raise some concern. The replaceable modules in the MPS-1 should make correcting any such problem in the field a relatively simple matter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
Greg,


I am not going to trash the MPS-1. I am sure that it sounds fine. However this is the second time that AV123 has challenged the way a credible magazine measures the products it reviews.


I am certain that if the amp did not meet its specs then they would test it again to determine if their procedures were faulty. EVERY single amplifier at Ultimate AV (or Stereophile Guide to Home Theater as it was once called in print) is tested the same way.

At best, it is presumptuous of you engineers to instruct the magazine how to test your product. Imagine if every manufacturer gave their special little testing instructions.


Ultimate AV has layed out a level testing playing field for all products. If AV 123 is going to claim 7x200wpc and 100dB of S/N it is up to them to achieve that measurement the same way everyone else has to-by earning it. Your instructions how to test your amplifier borders on an insult to the competency of the magazine. I would respectfully suggest you reconsider how you rate your products before those claims are put to the test.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
882 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CEGUY
Greg,


this is the second time that AV123 has challenged the way a credible magazine measures the products it reviews.
It's called denial.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
34 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojosdad
We need someone to do a comparison of it and Arcam AVP700 and Anthem 30, pleeeease..... :)


Ben
Why? Get the damned Arcam. Nothing touches it near the price. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CEGUY
Greg,


I am not going to trash the MPS-1. I am sure that it sounds fine. However this is the second time that AV123 has challenged the way a credible magazine measures the products it reviews.


I am certain that if the amp did not meet its specs then they would test it again to determine if their procedures were faulty. EVERY single amplifier at Ultimate AV (or Stereophile Guide to Home Theater as it was once called in print) is tested the same way.

At best, it is presumptuous of you engineers to instruct the magazine how to test your product. Imagine if every manufacturer gave their special little testing instructions.


Ultimate AV has layed out a level testing playing field for all products. If AV 123 is going to claim 7x200wpc and 100dB of S/N it is up to them to achieve that measurement the same way everyone else has to-by earning it. Your instructions how to test your amplifier borders on an insult to the competency of the magazine. I would respectfully suggest you reconsider how you rate your products before those claims are put to the test.
I understand your perspective here. However, I disagree that our reply to the testing of our product was insulting in any way. We're simply pointing out how our ratings are achieved and the method of testing that we've employed. We're not providing instructions for testing. It simply provides a possible explanation for the discrepancy here.


In addition, there was no opportunity for any sort of re-test despite your certainty of such a situation. We saw the results of their test and review for the first time only hours before it was published online. I do not expect them to re-test the amp either. They used their method and we have ours. Anyone willing to test the amp under the conditions that we did will find the same results as us. We've got nothing to hide here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
Greg,


Just one question. You already had this measurement discrepancy come up once before with Audioholics. Armed with that knowledge, and knowing how Ultimate A/V tests their products, why didn't you anticipate that they too would measure underperforming results You could have provided them with your test methodology up front?


Knowing that they are an unbiased publication, I am sure that they will reprint your explantion in the manufacturer"s comments section. After all it is an Internet publication so uploading your response will be a simple process.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CEGUY
Greg,


Just one question. You already had this measurement discrepancy come up once before with Audioholics. Armed with that knowledge, and knowing how Ultimate A/V tests their products, why didn't you anticipate that they too would measure underperforming results You could have provided them with your test methodology up front?


Knowing that they are an unbiased publication, I am sure that they will reprint your explantion in the manufacturer"s comments section. After all it is an Internet publication so uploading your response will be a simple process.
You've assumed that we were aware of the specific testing condiitons that UAV employs with their amp testing. Given that our project engineer is asking what these conditions are and the fact that they're not specifically referenced in the review, it's pretty clear that this is not the case. Had we known of any specific testing methodology, we may have mentioned to them how our ratings are achieved beforehand. That does not mean that we would have asked that they are tested that way but it would have provided a baseline for their testing and frame of comparative reference. This is why our reply focuses on that.
 
1 - 20 of 199 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top