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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, I've taken receipt of Mark Seaton's amazing SubMersive-1 subwoofer and have managed it down the stairs and into its current position in my front R corner, 16' from LP.




I have carpet on concrete with 3 walls concrete also--it is a bunker measuring 15' D x 27' W x 8' H.




I have 3" of mineral wool behind my AT screen and some free standing JM 3" spinglass (like OC 703) in various positions like stradling the back floor/wall intersection all along my seating area and I have a couple standing upright in my front L corner.


I ran Audyssey to get distances/levels with my Onkyo 875 AVR. The distance was spot on (for all speakers and the sub), though the levels were all quite low. Mains were set to Large and -9dB and the sub was set to -15dB, which I decided was too low so I bumped the sub up to -12dB.



I did some listening tests (KFP, Ratatouille) before I had to crash at 1:30 a.m. last night. WOW--very impressed so far.
The Submersive is very clean and dynamic--it doesn't have any issue reproducing any of the demanding LFE of either of those movies like my Ultra did.


So, I'm posting my first graph and waterfall produced by my REW rig. The graph is unsmoothed.


I think I've done something incorrectly because my levels are clearly too high dB-wise, and the waterfall is--as pepar joked--like Phil Spector's "wall of sound."!



Any help or comments, etc. much appreciated! I'm anxious to get this beast dialed in...
 

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How about some pictures of the SubMersive in your room?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil /forum/post/16967143


How about some pictures of the SubMersive in your room?

Will do...


Here's the graph & waterfall in the meantime.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by allredp /forum/post/16967086


Any help or comments, etc. much appreciated! I'm anxious to get this beast dialed in...

I'm sure the trip down the stairs was fun.



Be sure to check into the calibration file you are using. The response below 10-20Hz suggests to me it is set incorrectly, although the high level could also have things clipping or otherwise out of whack.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton /forum/post/16967311


I'm sure the trip down the stairs was fun.



Be sure to check into the calibration file you are using. The response below 10-20Hz suggests to me it is set incorrectly, although the high level could also have things clipping or otherwise out of whack.
http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/e...ntheStairs.jpg

Hey Mark! Yes, going down the stairs by myself was very exciting to say the least. It didn't help that it was 11 p.m. and I've been on the road for about 2 weeks... But, I'd put on several exta pounds traveling so the cart didn't run away from me like it wanted too!


http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/e...ightCorner.jpg

Here's a shot of it in the front R corner. My Dali Mentor 8 is the R main speaker.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/e...nerwscreen.jpg

This is the right side of my room...


As per the calibration file and the response so far, I've been wondering about that myself! I downloaded the Galaxy C-140 cal file from HTS's REW thread and have it loaded into my REW. However, my setup is being weird because I've had to goose my MV to -10 and the input's recording volume up to 35. In the past I've only needed about -22 to -24 MV.


Any suggestions?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by goneten /forum/post/16967343


allredp,


Do you have an SPL meter ? Perhaps you should try disabling Audyssey for a few minutes and manually set up your speaker/subwoofer levels.


Regards,

Yes--as noted in my most recent post it is the Galaxy C-140.


The mystery of gain levels began last night with my initial SPL speaker/sub levels. My Ultra had been at +3.5, while the SubMersive with it's own gain set only at 8, needed to be taken way, way down to the negative range of the AVR's sub level. In fact, Audyssey set the SubMersive at a whopping -15
which I arbitrarily bumped up to -12.



Considering this, it is doubly confusing that in REW I'm having to goose the MV to -10, and the input recording level much higher than I normally do as well. If I don't, REW says my levels are too low to measure.


BTW, when the REW sweep goes it is only registering in the high 80's dB as I watch the C-140, even though the REW graph has it up in those lofty #s you see.


Hummnnn... help much apprecitated!


In the meantime, I am thrilled that the SubMersive isn't farting/dying on the scenes my Ultra was. I'm saying this with full admiration for the Ultra--it is an amazing sub and I loved it except for those headroom issues (even after I turned Audyssey off)! The guy I sold it to is absolutely blown away by it, and I was dumbfounded/dismayed that in his room with his setup the Ultra didn't have the same problems that my room/setup have. Figures... but, hey, now I have an even better sub, so I should be thankful, right?!
 

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Before running Audyssey you should turn off any Audyssey EQ in the processor, then quickly set the processor's sub channel level between -6 and 0dB. Now with the usual test tones adjust the subwoofer level to around 75dB. That saves you some tail-chasing with gains.


I'd head to the 'shack for REQW troubleshooting. It sounds like you have some level controls fighting each other in your computer. I do believe there is a signal/method intended to approximately calibrate REQW for a level measured with your SPL meter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton /forum/post/16967597


Before running Audyssey you should turn off any Audyssey EQ in the processor, then quickly set the processor's sub channel level between -6 and 0dB. Now with the usual test tones adjust the subwoofer level to around 75dB. That saves you some tail-chasing with gains.


I'd head to the 'shack for REQW troubleshooting. It sounds like you have some level controls fighting each other in your computer. I do believe there is a signal/method intended to approximately calibrate REQW for a level measured with your SPL meter.

Thanks for the help, Mark. You've created an amazing subwoofer here!!! Without any EQ and with these level issues, it still is out-gunning the Ultra on my LFE torture scenes--I'm excited for where the performance can go!



I'll go back and re-try that to see if that can help.


BTW, what do you suggest as a starting gain on the SubMersive amp itself?
 

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A couple things to check/try:


1. Before running any sweeps enter Settings -> Mic/Meter and use the "Calibrate SPL" button.


2. After using the "Calibrate SPL" button do not change the SPL range on the meter. I don't know about the Galaxy but with my RS SPL meter I used to get graphs that looked like that by changing the range after the SPL was calibrated. If you're going to change the level dramatically between measurements you'll need to change the range on the SPL meter and redo the SPL Calibration before testing.


Either of these will cause what you're describing. Also for the waterfall graph you'll want to use the scroll arrows next to the graph so the graph is readable (alternatively you can zoom out but that may make the SPL range too large).


Let me know if this helps
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by lennon_68 /forum/post/16968138


A couple things to check/try:


1. Before running any sweeps enter Settings -> Mic/Meter and use the "Calibrate SPL" button.


2. After using the "Calibrate SPL" button do not change the SPL range on the meter. I don't know about the Galaxy but with my RS SPL meter I used to get graphs that looked like that by changing the range after the SPL was calibrated. If you're going to change the level dramatically between measurements you'll need to change the range on the SPL meter and redo the SPL Calibration before testing.


Either of these will cause what you're describing. Also for the waterfall graph you'll want to use the scroll arrows next to the graph so the graph is readable (alternatively you can zoom out but that may make the SPL range too large).


Let me know if this helps

Very good--Lennon-68. I'll rework it with that suggestion.


So now I'm hitting 116+ dB on "Whole Lotta Bass" at Reference, so at least my AVR (sans Audyssey EQ) levels are now right. I've just got to figure out why my REQW rig is calibrated wrong...
 

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I might be totally off base here but isn't the Maximum range of Onkyo -15 to +15.


So if you are getting a -15 db for the Subwoofer, than it is probably too loud as compared to your other channels, and the processor/audyssey is incorrectly level matching.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbybreezy /forum/post/16968929


I might be totally off base here but isn't the Maximum range of Onkyo -15 to +15.


So if you are getting a -15 db for the Subwoofer, than it is probably too loud as compared to your other channels, and the processor/audyssey is incorrectly level matching.

I know you're right about the level matching being off. Not sure what the exact range is actually, but following Mark Seaton's advice above, I arbitrarily set the sub gain in the AVR at -6, after I set the SubMersive amp's gain at -16 (I had it at -10 before), then I used the test tones in the AVR to get the sub to 75 dB.


Then I checked the "Whole Lotta Bass" track on the 5.1 Audio Toolkit Mark includes with every SubMersive and put my Onkyo at reference (0.0) and hit 115.9 dB. Holy Cow, that's a kick--everything that isn't battened down gets a workout!


Still, I'm working on the REQW levels/calibration file issue... but in the meantime the demo's are a total blast.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by allredp /forum/post/16968960


Still, I'm working on the REQW levels/calibration file issue... but in the meantime the demo's are a total blast.

If it's just that you need to do the "Calibrate SPL" process it's a breeze. REW just plays a pink noise tone and you input what the SPL meter is reading. Once REW is playing the pink noise you can turn up the AVR to get a reading around where you want to do the test sweep in REW (I usually run sweeps for EQ around 85dB so that's where I get the pink noise playing). It only takes a couple seconds
 

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Hi allredp,


Now that you have calibrated the SubMersive, do you have Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones and We Were Soldiers? If so, can you tell me if the clipping light on the SubMersive flickers when watching/listening at reference level during the first scene of Attack of the Clones when the huge spaceship flies over a few times and finally explodes? Can you also do the same for the first air attack in We Were Soldiers?


Cheers!
 

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Kain, watching SW ep II, at reference with a +6db house curve, my clip lite does indeed light up quite a bit during that scene, but it does not go into protection mode.


I'll have to look up a waterfall, but there is some intense bass content in that scene for sure. At any rate, it is a good thing to show my wife to explain why we need 3 more SubMersives
 

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It could be the engine hum that runs through that scene, or as you are guessing, some sort of noise in the measurement. I am not sure who captured that or how, I just found the link on this forum.


FWIW, the soundtrack is pretty hot, I find comfortable watching volume around -8 db from reference.
 
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