so ive been researching what soundcard will give me the best sound output for some hi-fi gear that i am in the process of purchasing... can i connect the analog outputs of the RME DIGI96/8 PAD directly into a power-amp?, or do i still need a pre-amp to do so??
RME DIGI96/8 PAD as a pre-amp for hi-fi gear??
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You can connect it for sure. Here are a few considerations.
Potential for lethal clicks when you reboot your machine. I am not quite sure whether this is an issue with the PAD but ideally you have a relay that softly engages after everything is powered up an ready.
Your volume control will be happening in the digital domain which has the potential to lead to lower resolution with lower volumes
You need to use UI to change your volume. This can be tedious and you might want to look into a remote control solution
With the DACs inside the PC case you might get more noise compared to an outboard DAC. If I recall correctly the RME digi96 has a dynamic range of around103db~16bits. Outboards DACs go to about 119db~19bits but this is not necessarily an issue.
Good luck and let us know how you like it.
Cheers
Thomas
Potential for lethal clicks when you reboot your machine. I am not quite sure whether this is an issue with the PAD but ideally you have a relay that softly engages after everything is powered up an ready.
Your volume control will be happening in the digital domain which has the potential to lead to lower resolution with lower volumes
You need to use UI to change your volume. This can be tedious and you might want to look into a remote control solution
With the DACs inside the PC case you might get more noise compared to an outboard DAC. If I recall correctly the RME digi96 has a dynamic range of around103db~16bits. Outboards DACs go to about 119db~19bits but this is not necessarily an issue.
Good luck and let us know how you like it.
Cheers
Thomas
http://www.rme-audio.de/english/digi96/digi96pa.htm
sayes that the output dynamic range is 112db... am i reading it wrong??
also sayes it has a "speaker protection" which minimizes noise during on/off....
ill be using a remote to controll the computer volume so thats not a problem...
sayes that the output dynamic range is 112db... am i reading it wrong??
also sayes it has a "speaker protection" which minimizes noise during on/off....
ill be using a remote to controll the computer volume so thats not a problem...
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For two channel playback, this is probably quite reasonable. But for AC3, DTS or any other multi-channel audio, there are many, MANY issues...
| Originally posted by NatGun can i connect the analog outputs of the RME DIGI96/8 PAD directly into a power-amp? |
I might be wrong on the 103db but seem to remember seeing this in the comparison of some sound cards. The Lynx Studio 2 was ahead of the pack. May it was Rightmark Audio Analyzer.
In any case this might or might not be an issue. When they did the sound card shootout in London they liked the RME better than the Lynx.
Cheers
Thomas
In any case this might or might not be an issue. When they did the sound card shootout in London they liked the RME better than the Lynx.
Cheers
Thomas
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Jeez, where to begin.....
For starters, there is no software currently available that will allow you to adjust individual channel volume, delay, crossover, and LFE parameters - all crucial to multi-channel audio.
Then there's the fact that SW DVD players are all focused on good quality video - not audio. Not one of them that's currently available allows you to bypass the kmixer bug by using ASIO or kernel streaming.
And if you're seriously thinking about buying such a nice, expensive, high performance sound card that will allow your PC to serve the duties of a preamp/processor, then you should also know that there's nothing currently available that will accept an external AC3 or DTS digital audio stream and decode for output via the sound card.
| Originally posted by NatGun such as?? |
For starters, there is no software currently available that will allow you to adjust individual channel volume, delay, crossover, and LFE parameters - all crucial to multi-channel audio.
Then there's the fact that SW DVD players are all focused on good quality video - not audio. Not one of them that's currently available allows you to bypass the kmixer bug by using ASIO or kernel streaming.
And if you're seriously thinking about buying such a nice, expensive, high performance sound card that will allow your PC to serve the duties of a preamp/processor, then you should also know that there's nothing currently available that will accept an external AC3 or DTS digital audio stream and decode for output via the sound card.
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Should work well for that.
You could also try the newer RME Hammerfall DSP 9632 . I think it also addresses the "turn on thump issue" better. With the new multimedia P4 motherboards coming out in February - you just might be in HTPC heaven (fingers x-ed, but not turning red). 
Here's RMAA marks for a RME HDSP-9632, looped back with moderate monster cable (an extra pair that I had lying around.) Tested at 24bits and 44.1khz.
Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB: \t+0.02, -0.04\tExcellent
Noise level, dB (A): \t-105.5\tExcellent
Dynamic range, dB (A): \t104.6\tExcellent
THD, %: \t0.0022\tExcellent
IMD, %: \t0.0029\tExcellent
Stereo crosstalk, dB: \t-107.1\tExcellent
rmaa.zip 48.931640625k . file
Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB: \t+0.02, -0.04\tExcellent
Noise level, dB (A): \t-105.5\tExcellent
Dynamic range, dB (A): \t104.6\tExcellent
THD, %: \t0.0022\tExcellent
IMD, %: \t0.0029\tExcellent
Stereo crosstalk, dB: \t-107.1\tExcellent
rmaa.zip 48.931640625k . file
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not quite sure what all that stuff means, forgive my noobishness..
is the hammerfall better than the DIGI96/8 PAD??
are these numbers good enough for use with hi-fi gear, or am i still better off going with a separate DAC and preamp...
| Originally posted by greenkiwi Here's RMAA marks for a RME HDSP-9632, looped back with moderate monster cable (an extra pair that I had lying around.) Tested at 24bits and 44.1khz. Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB: +0.02, -0.04 Excellent Noise level, dB (A): -105.5 Excellent Dynamic range, dB (A): 104.6 Excellent THD, %: 0.0022 Excellent IMD, %: 0.0029 Excellent Stereo crosstalk, dB: -107.1 Excellent |
not quite sure what all that stuff means, forgive my noobishness..
is the hammerfall better than the DIGI96/8 PAD??
are these numbers good enough for use with hi-fi gear, or am i still better off going with a separate DAC and preamp...
Well, its measured performance is greater than what you can provide with a CD. One option is to try it out and see. (Try to find a place that sells the cards with a 30 day money back option.) The HDSP-9632 that I've used is a friend's, so I haven't done extensive listening to it... however, on a Denon system, w/ older KEF floor standing speakers in the 4k range (what was around the office), its analog output sounded no different than its digital output. This leads me to think that the Denon may be the rate limiting factor here. I also listened to it on a system with some Maggie 3.6s, but not for long enough to really make a judgement, other than I could not fault the sound.
As for Digi96/8 v. HDSP-9632. The latter is newer and is supposed to have a better analog output stage. That said, you can probably pick the Digi96/8 up for a chuck less than the 9632.
The other issue with using it (or any sound card) connected directly up to an amplifier is that the volume control is performed in the digital domain... as opposed to analog with a preamp. If you aren't changing your volume levels much, it's probably not a big deal, but if you do, then you'll probably want a better volume control.
kiwi
As for Digi96/8 v. HDSP-9632. The latter is newer and is supposed to have a better analog output stage. That said, you can probably pick the Digi96/8 up for a chuck less than the 9632.
The other issue with using it (or any sound card) connected directly up to an amplifier is that the volume control is performed in the digital domain... as opposed to analog with a preamp. If you aren't changing your volume levels much, it's probably not a big deal, but if you do, then you'll probably want a better volume control.
kiwi
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Actually, the problem with controlling volume in the digital domain is the loss of resolution (information) at lower volume levels. There *is* a solution to this, and IIRC, the Hammerfall has it. There was a thread on this topic some time ago. Try searching on volume AND "digital domain" AND resolution.
| Originally posted by greenkiwi The other issue with using it (or any sound card) connected directly up to an amplifier is that the volume control is performed in the digital domain... as opposed to analog with a preamp. If you aren't changing your volume levels much, it's probably not a big deal, but if you do, then you'll probably want a better volume control. |
For 2 channel only you get a bit lower noise floor in an external DACs, you can find models with an analog volume control, and you are safe from clicks.
Whether this is important to you really depends on your preferences.
Have a look at the Benchmark Media DAC1 or the Apogee Digital mini-DAC just to round out your evaluation.
I seem to remember ElvisCognito had a DAC1 at some point.
Cheers
Thomas
Whether this is important to you really depends on your preferences.
Have a look at the Benchmark Media DAC1 or the Apogee Digital mini-DAC just to round out your evaluation.
I seem to remember ElvisCognito had a DAC1 at some point.
Cheers
Thomas
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Right! We were talking about this last year in "digital attenuation" or "digital volume control". With 24-bit, it will challenge (or beat) even the most passive preamp. I found this: Audible effects of digital attenuation - in fact you had started the thread - very entertaining!
| Originally posted by ElvisIncognito Actually, the problem with controlling volume in the digital domain is the loss of resolution (information) at lower volume levels. There *is* a solution to this, and IIRC, the Hammerfall has it. There was a thread on this topic some time ago. Try searching on volume AND "digital domain" AND resolution. |
With 24-bit, it will challenge (or beat) even the most passive preamp. I found this: Audible effects of digital attenuation - in fact you had started the thread - very entertaining! Quote:
the hdsp 9632 drivers bypass the kmixer in directsound so they do not suffer from the kmixer bug
| Then there's the fact that SW DVD players are all focused on good quality video - not audio. Not one of them that's currently available allows you to bypass the kmixer bug by using ASIO or kernel streaming. |
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