AVS Forum banner

21 - 40 of 50 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
I was going to buy lifetime as well. I did a year subscription a while ago and I really wanted to go lifetime but I couldn't afford it then. Now that I see that it's $200 more expensive, the 40% price increase for the same software is tough to swallow. $700 is a lot of money to pay for an interface and metadata.
... and exactly how long is a 'lifetime' in technology?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,221 Posts
I just started getting into the HiFi niche, and I have been pondering about Roon, but after their price increase, Roon is no longer on my list. I wish Roon the best and hope their new business model doesn't bring them down.
 

·
Audio Engineer
Joined
·
2,031 Posts
I understand that they did it for their own internal benefit, but when you can get quality streamers for $599 with a free eco system and software suite (BlueSound), or really good streamers with software also included (Aurelic), they are asking for a huge chunk of change.

This is going to push me into either an Aurelic or maybe a PS Audio Direct Stream DAC with Bridge II for my next upgrade.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
198 Posts
I was looking at $1500-2500 streamers in late 2018

Discovered the very economical RaspPi Allo DigiOne Signature for less money at 90-95% of the quality. Add in a lifetime Roon subscription and it was still less money as a package.

After having the software for all this time I do admit it is a solid solution. I still cannot wrap my head around paying so much for software though. The DigiOne is useless without the Roon software though. Roon was much better than the included software in the commercial streamers and the salesman at the audio store kept saying you'll want Roon ON TOP of the hardware. Made the decision to go with a RaspPi easier.

As Roon gets more robust and more and more hardware companies sign one, it'll only get better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,937 Posts
I was looking at $1500-2500 streamers in late 2018

Discovered the very economical RaspPi Allo DigiOne Signature for less money at 90-95% of the quality. Add in a lifetime Roon subscription and it was still less money as a package.

After having the software for all this time I do admit it is a solid solution. I still cannot wrap my head around paying so much for software though. The DigiOne is useless without the Roon software though. Roon was much better than the included software in the commercial streamers and the salesman at the audio store kept saying you'll want Roon ON TOP of the hardware. Made the decision to go with a RaspPi easier.

As Roon gets more robust and more and more hardware companies sign one, it'll only get better.
I just trialed Roon and I'm jumping on board. Streamers and music services are a dime a dozen, but products that bring it all together and makes exploration enjoyable are not. I'm a musicphile, not an audiophile and Roon connects me with the artists, content, and makes continuing to build my personal library worthwhile.

Bottom line is that I actually enjoy my music time more when I sit down to listen with Roon. I felt the same way when I got Sonos many years ago and the same cost issues existed around Sonos at the time. Never regretted that purchase and now Roon is a huge step up from Sonos.

I could care less which streaming service I use, it's primarily just a library. Roon is a music information aggregator.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,937 Posts
I went to start a trial for Roon and noticed the price increased from $499 to $699 for lifetime. I was on the fence at $499, but am walking away briskly at $699.
I didn't look at Roon for many years because of the $499 cost. I finally looked into extensively though and decided to make the leap and so glad I did. I'm a Sonos user and not only is this far better than Sonos, it also integrates with my legacy Sonos gear, saving me a lot of grief over the fact that Sonos is about to fork it's software leaving early adopters behind. I could care less now. Also, the NUC hosting Roon replaces my Sonos Connect into my main system giving me hi-res and multichannel streaming as a bonus.

Dedicated hardware, hi-rez multichannel streamer, Sonos software replacement, syncable whole house audio, built-in stupid simple CD ripper, and category leading lifetime software subscription for $1300 is a good deal IMHO. The value everyone sees in that will vary though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,865 Posts
You know, I don't know how many people remember or even heard of a site called "What.CD", but I feel like Roon ripped off a lot of their work. What.CD got shut down because it was an "illegal" (I think grey area, but...) private torrent tracker. However, what it had, and what it did best at, was metadata. You could see the similar artists and see all the community-supplied information about the uploaded content. So, while community driven, it certainly did attempt to link various artists and genres and contributors to the music torrents the What.CD "platform" hosted. Of course, the content was on their users' servers, but since the tracker aggregated it together, it was what the industry attacked. I wonder who got their huge database of user-supplied data.......

That said, I'm still unsure I'm sold on Roon. I don't want to start a trial just yet as I've no real time to tinker. But, I feel that the meta-data is really all I care about and I'm starting to wonder how much of that I can get on my own just by writing software to spider WikiPedia. Honestly, there's a point where, as a software dev, I have to ask "what are you doing for me that I can't do myself" and, for Roon, I'm not 100% sure I see it just yet. What they have are connections (e.g., to Tidal) that I lack. However, there are a few OpenSource SDKs (Software Development Kits) to Tidal and I could probably just hook into them -- then hope Tidal doesn't break them as Tidal's API (Application Programming Interface) is not public and could change at "any time".

So, for me, the question I ask is, "is the Roon architecture something I see worthwhile" and the answer there, while possibly yes, is "sure, but could I do this myself" and that answer is also "yes". Of course, while doing so myself would cost me more than the lifetime membership in my personal time, it'd also be more gratifying. So...we'll see where I land, lol. Besides, I could create a competitor in the process and then charge less than $700 for it, lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,937 Posts
So, for me, the question I ask is, "is the Roon architecture something I see worthwhile" and the answer there, while possibly yes, is "sure, but could I do this myself" and that answer is also "yes". Of course, while doing so myself would cost me more than the lifetime membership in my personal time, it'd also be more gratifying. So...we'll see where I land, lol. Besides, I could create a competitor in the process and then charge less than $700 for it, lol.
Go for it! Competition is always good. It doesn't seem Roon has any real competition, so opportunity there for sure. Companies like Sonos/Heos/etc. are clearly more interested in hardware than their software interfaces because they all suck in comparison.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,865 Posts
Go for it! Competition is always good. It doesn't seem Roon has any real competition, so opportunity there for sure. Companies like Sonos/Heos/etc. are clearly more interested in hardware than their software interfaces because they all suck in comparison.
We'll see what happens. At the moment, I am teamed with a small investor on a concept we are working towards pitching to a bigger fish by the end June. If that goes well, I'll have zero time. If it doesn't, I'll be looking for something else; maybe "replacing Roon" could be it. However, I am not so sure the investor we have on the hook would like Roon's business model. I don't know there is enough user-base to make them salivate, lol.

All I do know is I am super tired of using my skills to make other people money. It's my turn! I get paid well, but it'd feel so much better to have an idea my brain spawned be paying me. Or, at least, an idea that I actually love and stand behind. All I'm building now is software to move around planes at job one and money at job two -- neither interest me much any longer, lol. The regular paychecks, on the other hand, are hard to look past.

But hey, mostly all I work for is to buy A/V stuff and cars, haha. Paying the mortgage and other bills is just a necessary evil -- like "saving", lol. It's the toys and vacations I really work for...well, that and I absolutely love what I do when it is interesting work. Right now the dream is a theater room w/ Christie Eclipse. If the pitch goes well, I may get there in "a few" years! (*) Of course, the investors could like at us like we're crazy and walk -- never know until we try! The market research says there is plenty of money to be had in the space we're in, so...hopefully not. Alas, it also says many have tried what we are and failed, so we have to differentiate. But, while our concept is different, convincing someone we can succeed where others failed is the hard part -- heck, sometimes reading the research temporarily deflates me...and it's my idea! :(

(*) Though, I don't know who I'll buy it from...the singular person on this forum "pushing" it into home theaters will never get a cent of my money. In fact, I'm willing to admit that I'm both petty and petulant enough to allow my "disgust" towards them to drive me even harder towards success simply for the satisfaction of thumbing my nose at them while buying from someone else -- sad but true, lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
219 Posts
I tried Roon and decided against it because I've spent many hours getting the metadata right in my own library. (Tidal and Qobuz are another story; it's almost impossible to find a specific classical recording there on the first try.)

Now, a few years later, I've bought plenty of downloads that were on sale and am wearying of fixing metadata. (I wish I could run the downloads through dBpoweramp for that.) Though I've got quite a good workflow, it's becoming increasingly tiresome. Thus, Roon is getting to look not like a bargain, but possibly like a reasonable expense, even at $700 for Roon plus maybe another $700 or $1000 for a small computer to run it on.

Yet, I've not brought myself to spend that money yet. Perhaps it's the quirks of the Roon interface that put me off initially that are deterring me, or maybe just the cost for convenience, not for music or better sound. Or maybe the thought of setting up and maintaining one more device.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,865 Posts
Mike,

I think the biggest metadata point that Roon has, that no one else is (presently) advertising (to the best of my knowledge), is the "volume normalization" data. If you like to shuffle through lots of genres over different artists and albums during a single listening session, it sounds like this is a superior feature. I know that I often end up dorking with my volume control a few times over the course of any playlist spanning multiple decades and genres. Sometimes I'd rather just sit back and listen without having to rush to the remote to adjust (usually downwards, lol) the volume.

That said, I'm curious what is so wrong with the metadata in purchased downloads? I know it's not always great -- for example, I hate when they list featured artists in the track title. But, it's at least typically accurate? No? More, if you just want Roon to auto-adjust some meta-data, maybe look into other solutions. I do believe there are a few that, for much less money than Roon, can run a song through an identification tool and grab meta-data. Maybe take a look at this one and see if it saves you some coin.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
219 Posts
Metadata, Roon, Volume leveling

DreamWarrior,

I should have mentioned, I'm speaking mostly about classical music. There, the metadata can be missing or wrong or just in a different format from the one I use. For example, I want the composer in the "Composer" field, the orchestra name in "Orchestra", the conductor in "Conductor", and so on. I want movements numbered. I abbreviate "Concerto" to "Cto" so more of a title will appear on screen. I plead guilty to being rather Felix Unger in this. I'll take a look at your link to see if it's of help in my case.

Metadata for other genres usually needs way less fiddling on my part, often none.

Regarding volume leveling, I have JRiver analyze files when I import music, and it adds values for leveling. With classical music, it's not something I want, so it's turned off. I should get it working for pop, jazz, and so on, though, as mixed playlists can be jarring otherwise, as you pointed out.

Thanks for the comments!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,865 Posts
DreamWarrior,

I should have mentioned, I'm speaking mostly about classical music. There, the metadata can be missing or wrong or just in a different format from the one I use. For example, I want the composer in the "Composer" field, the orchestra name in "Orchestra", the conductor in "Conductor", and so on. I want movements numbered. I abbreviate "Concerto" to "Cto" so more of a title will appear on screen. I plead guilty to being rather Felix Unger in this. I'll take a look at your link to see if it's of help in my case.

Metadata for other genres usually needs way less fiddling on my part, often none.

Regarding volume leveling, I have JRiver analyze files when I import music, and and it adds values for leveling. With classical music, it's not something I want, so it's turned off. I should get it working for pop, jazz, and so on, though, as mixed playlists can be jarring otherwise, as you pointed out.

Thanks for the comments!
Honestly, I won't deny you the odd ;) Unger-ian approach. In fact, I'd say it's the way "it should be". The abbreviations may be a bit over-the-top, but I can certainly understand the rationale when classical titles are already typically long. A word-replace feature may help you there...though, it won't have context so it'll just replace the word everywhere which may (occasionally) be wrong.

That said, I hope the link helps. I really don't know how well Classical music is recognized by the linked tools / music ID databases. Unfortunately, even if it helps, it may not get you 100% where you want to be...and that's unfortunate as, like I said, I agree it's how it "should be". I have always been a person who thinks computer data should be modeled as close to real life as possible. All too often, though, people find "hacks" because they "have to" (usually because they are too lazy to do anything else). So, kudos to not accepting the "hacks" and putting the information where "it belongs" despite the pains you take to do so. I hope the linked tools can assist, but...now I'm not so sure :(.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
219 Posts
Honestly, I won't deny you the odd ;) Unger-ian approach. In fact, I'd say it's the way "it should be". The abbreviations may be a bit over-the-top, but I can certainly understand the rationale when classical titles are already typically long. A word-replace feature may help you there...though, it won't have context so it'll just replace the word everywhere which may (occasionally) be wrong.

That said, I hope the link helps. I really don't know how well Classical music is recognized by the linked tools / music ID databases. Unfortunately, even if it helps, it may not get you 100% where you want to be...and that's unfortunate as, like I said, I agree it's how it "should be". I have always been a person who thinks computer data should be modeled as close to real life as possible. All too often, though, people find "hacks" because they "have to" (usually because they are too lazy to do anything else). So, kudos to not accepting the "hacks" and putting the information where "it belongs" despite the pains you take to do so. I hope the linked tools can assist, but...now I'm not so sure :(.
Dream Warrier, Thanks! I've got shortcuts set up to make standard changes with as few keystrokes as possible. JRiver has an expression language, and my most common changes are saved in a file I can cut & paste. Some other changes are set up in mp3tag. Yet when I'm weary, I forget the nits I had to pick with Roon and remember only that Roon has data on everything. In reality, some of that data is wrong! :rolleyes: Cheers!
 
  • Like
Reactions: DreamWarrior

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,865 Posts
*snip* Yet when I'm weary, I forget the nits I had to pick with Roon and remember only that Roon has data on everything. In reality, some of that data is wrong! :rolleyes: Cheers!
I just took a further look and it seems Roon is building upon the MusicBrainz database that I linked above. So, if Roon is often wrong, you're probably hosed. A touch more poking around and it seems many classical music lovers have similar complaints about how woefully poorly the MusicBrainz database is designed for classical music. edit: maybe not...some people said it's not a MusicBrainz issue rather a Roon issue. Honestly, I'd have to dig more.

How about this: how many Classical music fans would maintain a classical music metadata database? The, previously linked, acoustic signature API backing MusicBrainz is open-source. So long as it can properly identify a piece of classical music and return a unique ID, anyone can link that ID to a better designed database having its focus on classical music. If enough people wanted it, I'm sure a Kickstarter could be compelled. More, since Roon already uses the API, they could hook up to it. However, it seems even the Room UI is focused more on rock/pop than classical, so....

edit: also, try this metadata tagger. It is supposedly using MusicBrainz to very good effect, and should, given supposedly it is written by a person that was involved with MusicBrainz. Maybe it obviates the need for the "better" database I ponder above.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,937 Posts
We'll see what happens. At the moment, I am teamed with a small investor on a concept we are working towards pitching to a bigger fish by the end June. If that goes well, I'll have zero time[/SIZE]
Good luck! Been there multiple times, I hope you get some traction. I have a startup I'm working on now too.

I tried Roon and decided against it because I've spent many hours getting the metadata right in my own library. (Tidal and Qobuz are another story; it's almost impossible to find a specific classical recording there on the first try.)

Now, a few years later, I've bought plenty of downloads that were on sale and am wearying of fixing metadata. (I wish I could run the downloads through dBpoweramp for that.) Though I've got quite a good workflow, it's becoming increasingly tiresome. Thus, Roon is getting to look not like a bargain, but possibly like a reasonable expense, even at $700 for Roon plus maybe another $700 or $1000 for a small computer to run it on.

Yet, I've not brought myself to spend that money yet. Perhaps it's the quirks of the Roon interface that put me off initially that are deterring me, or maybe just the cost for convenience, not for music or better sound. Or maybe the thought of setting up and maintaining one more device.
Putting the Roon linux OS on a dedicated NUC got me a hi-res multichannel streamer to my prepro that I didn't have and it is self-maintaining with automatic updates. I've been looking at streamers for a while and they were all more much than the $600 I spent on the NUC. The install kind of sucked, but that's a one-time deal, the OS seems rock solid.

Roon also controls my Sonos zones which solves another issue I had brewing with my legacy Sonos gear. All in all, Roon is a great value from a hardware and software standpoint in my particular situation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,865 Posts
Good luck! Been there multiple times, I hope you get some traction. I have a startup I'm working on now too.
Thanks -- you, too! :D

We should sit down and have some beers over this! Alas, COVID.... :( Hit me up when you're amenable, though! It's always fun hanging w/ you and I still haven't heard your Atmos setup :( :eek:.

My car needs service, again, maybe I'll take it to the dealer by you once the insanity dies down sufficiently. Unless, of course, I die first :rolleyes:. But, I can't be trapped indoors anymore, so I'm making moves into the world, again. I have been one of three or four people that have returned to the office more regularly over the past few weeks instead of working strictly from home. It's amazing how much better I feel just getting out of the house again; until it kills me :eek:.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,937 Posts
Thanks -- you, too! :D

We should sit down and have some beers over this! Alas, COVID.... :( Hit me up when you're amenable, though! It's always fun hanging w/ you and I still haven't heard your Atmos setup :( :eek:.

My car needs service, again, maybe I'll take it to the dealer by you once the insanity dies down sufficiently. Unless, of course, I die first :rolleyes:. But, I can't be trapped indoors anymore, so I'm making moves into the world, again. I have been one of three or four people that have returned to the office more regularly over the past few weeks instead of working strictly from home. It's amazing how much better I feel just getting out of the house again; until it kills me :eek:.
No doubt we need to have a gtg asap. Always a good time!
 
21 - 40 of 50 Posts
Top