AVS Forum banner

1741 - 1760 of 2013 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,718 Posts
Ok I have tried everything under the sun to pass 4K from direct tv through the RAP-1580. I have had zero consistency with this issue. I have been forced to bypass the RAP-1580 all together with any video . The lengths i have gone through these past few weeks have been incredible. I first purchased all new hdmi cables. next i got a new direct tv box. then i ended up taking back the RAP-1580 and got a new RAP-1580 . then i hooked up an Altona UHD SYNC . oh wait you guessed it no luck with that either so far. I have never ever experienced such a gigantic headache over something so absolutely simple. i mean simple setup here nothing complex about it. I would love to hear from any other owners of this product to see how they are doing with passing 4k video through this piece. I think this is one firmware update away. but before ya think i didn't update this thing i did that as well . the first unit i did it via ethernet this time i tried doing it via usb. even did the reset once it was updated and entered all the values into the settings again.. but the result unfortunately was the exact same. so at the end of all of this so far all i have to show for it is lack of sleep and a new appreciation of some of the old school ways we used to connect components with trusty analog cables.. this hdmi is less than great as far as i am concerned now .. anyone who has a RAP-1580 hit me up i would love to hear your story with the piece ...oh wait i even used a hdmi snoop program given to me by one of the techs. hopefully the information in those reports will help resolve this issue.. well thanks for getting to the end of this i am venting and desperate for someone to give me the golden nugget to resolve this issue..
To get the best video as possible you are better off running hdmi from your player straight to your device. Then just connect audio cables or other hdmi (assumin you have dual hdmi outputs on players these days) from player to avr or processor for sound. The 4K pass through on AVRs is more of convienence, but it breaks up signal chain. Not to mention there are hardly any hdmi cables that actually support and pass true 4K and requires very short distance to work. There is a thread on 4K and hdmi cables there too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
To get the best video as possible you are better off running hdmi from your player straight to your device. Then just connect audio cables or other hdmi (assumin you have dual hdmi outputs on players these days) from player to avr or processor for sound. The 4K pass through on AVRs is more of convienence, but it breaks up signal chain. Not to mention there are hardly any hdmi cables that actually support and pass true 4K and requires very short distance to work. There is a thread on 4K and hdmi cables there too.
Ya know i agree the less connections the better. But i have to compromise and make this setup accesable to my family and extended family so if they hit the remote they can make it all work with out having to call me with issues. I know your way sounds perfectly acceptable too but inevitably they will want to switch from direct tv and go right into the smart tv apps. if you don't set it up to go through the RAP-1580 it isn't an achievable goal . I will run it two ways so i can have the best and the least amount of connections for me when i am using it but i need that simplicity option for the rest of the family. i hope that makes sense.. i will look into the HDMI and 4K threads as well . i guess i was just kind of bummed out that HDMI and a piece of equipment of this quality has such a stumbling block.. I will admit i never did any research into HDMI i took it for granted that after all these years of it being around it wasn't all buggy and a mess..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,718 Posts
Ya know i agree the less connections the better. But i have to compromise and make this setup accesable to my family and extended family so if they hit the remote they can make it all work with out having to call me with issues. I know your way sounds perfectly acceptable too but inevitably they will want to switch from direct tv and go right into the smart tv apps. if you don't set it up to go through the RAP-1580 it isn't an achievable goal . I will run it two ways so i can have the best and the least amount of connections for me when i am using it but i need that simplicity option for the rest of the family. i hope that makes sense.. i will look into the HDMI and 4K threads as well . i guess i was just kind of bummed out that HDMI and a piece of equipment of this quality has such a stumbling block.. I will admit i never did any research into HDMI i took it for granted that after all these years of it being around it wasn't all buggy and a mess..
It will pass video through hdmi to avr to the display no issues especially 1080p....I was talking more about 4K itself since it requires very high bandwidth. And some equipment depending on avr model doesn't do it properly. You can ask specific questions about hdmi and 4K in this thread. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-hdmi-q-one-connector-world/2502818-uhd-blu-ray-long-hdmi-cables-what-works.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,267 Posts
@robphx: Monoprice sells HDMI Certified Premium that goes up to 25' for $20 that are guaranteed (per the certification) to work perfectly. Amazon Basics also work just fine for $10 for two 6' and I've seen TV vendors use them as their cables for demos at CES and other events. There are also other HDMI cables from Audio Precision and Murideo and both these will work perfectly. Active cables (even those that can do 18.0 Gb/sec) have been more hit-and-miss. They'll work perfectly from a source device, but not with a receiver in the middle. I've actually had much better luck for long runs by combining a 20' and 10' Monoprice certified cable with their $20 4K HDMI repeater.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,281 Posts
Balanced (XLR) Cables

Yes, XLR is just balanced and you use one cable vs 2 rca unbalanced cables. Sound is the same. But for very long runs such as 30+ feet xlr would be best if you had xlr connection option. If not, good quality rca is just fine. Nothing to stress over. Usually very high end equipment will have both xlr and rca options to give you more flexibility with connections, but the sound is pretty much par.

With only one XLR (balanced) cable you will only get one channel. In your example above: if the one XLR cable you mentioned is used in a stereo system for only one channel and the 2 RCA cables are used one for the left and one for the right channel, the sound will certainly be different. Do you actually believe the two options will sound the same?

XLR cables have many advantages:

They help to prevent hum in a system. In an RCA cable one wire also carries the ground which often causes hum. RCA cables of any length can cause hum due to ground loops. This forum and others sees lots of posts that mention hum problems. Pro's use balanced cables to avoid dealing with this problem. .


XLR cables are twisted-pair cables with a shield. This helps to reduce induced noise; both the twisting and the shield. This video gives a demonstration of how noise is induced. It also shows the advantages of star quad cable construction for balanced cables. Even without the star quad construction, balanced cables are to be preferred.

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/117842759-star-quad-cable-demonstration-video


An XLR cable has a male connector on one end and a female on the other. This allows the cables to be connected in series when longer lengths or exact lengths are required.


Of often XLR cables have latching connectors which prevents accidental disconnects that are common with RCA cable.


Monoprice sells acceptable balanced cables. Companies such as Have, Inc. and Markertek will make up any lengths of XLR cable desired using whatever wire (manufacturer, color, construction) and connector (Neutrik XX connectors are nice and only cost a few dollars) are desired. The cables they produce are very high quality and the prices are less than from Blue Jeans. Blue Jeans XLR cables are well made, but their prices for XLR cables are much higher than for similar quality cables, that are also assembled in the U.S., from other sources.

This Monoprice cable is excellent for connecting RCA sources to XLR inputs. The cable has a male RCA on one end to connected to the source, and a male XLR on one end to connect to the input.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150902&p_id=4775&seq=1&format=2

Connecting an XLR source to an RCA input isn't a good idea. One of the single lines from the XLR side (usually pin 3, the (-) pin) will likely be connected to ground which will over stress the electronics in the XLR output with little or nothing gained.


This piece, written by Bill Whitlock of Jensen Transformers, shows the circuitry for the XLR-RCA connection noted above. See figure 2.1. The piece also has a lot of good information on balanced connections. Mr. Whitlock is an expert in this field. You can often find his presentations on YouTube.

http://www.jhbrandt.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Interconnection_of_Balanced_and-Unbalanced-Equipment.pdf
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,718 Posts
@robphx: Monoprice sells HDMI Certified Premium that goes up to 25' for $20 that are guaranteed (per the certification) to work perfectly. Amazon Basics also work just fine for $10 for two 6' and I've seen TV vendors use them as their cables for demos at CES and other events. There are also other HDMI cables from Audio Precision and Murideo and both these will work perfectly. Active cables (even those that can do 18.0 Gb/sec) have been more hit-and-miss. They'll work perfectly from a source device, but not with a receiver in the middle. I've actually had much better luck for long runs by combining a 20' and 10' Monoprice certified cable with their $20 4K HDMI repeater.
Actually Monoprice didn't pass the test for 4K with 4:4:4 and 60fps. Look at the thread above I mentioned. There are few people actually testing cables to pass the signal as well as certain devices. You can ask there but from I remember it really doesn't pass regardless if the cable manufacture says it will.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,718 Posts
With only one XLR (balanced) cable you will only get one channel. In your example above: if the one XLR cable you mentioned is used in a stereo system for only one channel and the 2 RCA cables are used one for the left and one for the right channel, the sound will certainly be different. Do you actually believe the two options will sound the same?
I didn't even realized I put 2 rca cables in my quote. Thanks for catching that! Thats what happens when you type too fast and not re-read everything before you post. LOL

And yes I meant one XLR cable vs 1 RCA cable since each channel accepts one of each.

I was trying to say you can use either one of those options and its the same sound regardless. But you did mention the benefit of the locking mechanism of the xlr to keep cable from popping out. The main difference between the two is that xlr rejects noise better and better for very long runs such as running 50 feet or longer from avr to subwoofer for example. For short runs 6 feet and less its pretty much the same.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
@robphx: Monoprice sells HDMI Certified Premium that goes up to 25' for $20 that are guaranteed (per the certification) to work perfectly. Amazon Basics also work just fine for $10 for two 6' and I've seen TV vendors use them as their cables for demos at CES and other events. There are also other HDMI cables from Audio Precision and Murideo and both these will work perfectly. Active cables (even those that can do 18.0 Gb/sec) have been more hit-and-miss. They'll work perfectly from a source device, but not with a receiver in the middle. I've actually had much better luck for long runs by combining a 20' and 10' Monoprice certified cable with their $20 4K HDMI repeater.
Ya know it is a bummer that HDMI is so finicky . i bought 3 1 meter audio quest cinnamon HDMI cables . Well they are more expensive than your suggestions and i suspect good cables i am not on the spend a ton for HDMI cables so i thought these were in a comfort zone for me that i was ok with but . heck hard to say what is causing the timing issue here .. i am in contact with two company reps one is Rotel the AVR and Altona a company that makes a HDMI sync tool. I am hoping that they are able to come to some resolution to this issue.. Crazy stuff ..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
398 Posts
Hi all,

A quick question. Anyone use the Rotel Link located on some of their integrated amps, RSP 1582 ssp etc? Does it control all Rotel components in the signal chain and/or does it use an app to control as well?

I seen one on the RSP 1582 but the manual doesnt explain its full function. I can only assume it links all components together. Thanks.

audiomanz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,267 Posts
Ya know it is a bummer that HDMI is so finicky . i bought 3 1 meter audio quest cinnamon HDMI cables . Well they are more expensive than your suggestions and i suspect good cables i am not on the spend a ton for HDMI cables so i thought these were in a comfort zone for me that i was ok with but . heck hard to say what is causing the timing issue here .. i am in contact with two company reps one is Rotel the AVR and Altona a company that makes a HDMI sync tool. I am hoping that they are able to come to some resolution to this issue.. Crazy stuff ..
You should ask @markrubin he is a moderator and he loves (or lack there of) HDMI! Maybe he will chime in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
You should ask @markrubin he is a moderator and he loves (or lack there of) HDMI! Maybe he will chime in.
Ya know i took back my Audio Quest Cinnamon cables and got three Audio Quest Carbon HDMI cables. Lets just say I have some pretty expensive cables now that didn't fix the issues i had passing 4K consistently from direct tv through the Hotel RAP-1580. This issue has been the absolute irritating thing. It isn't a life ender but something in this price range should work if want to pass my Direct tv or some other device. I am sure when i go into the shop where i bought my RAP they run to the hills because they are sick of seeing me.. I will try reaching out to the fella you mentioned. I am on a mission now to find the solution .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,687 Posts
Just out of curiosity do you plug your amp(s) directly into the wall socket or do you plug it into a line conditioner/surge protector? I have two class D amps a RMB-1575 and RMB-1565 and have them plugged into a monster HTS1100 surge/conditioner and wondering if I am getting the full power of the amps. Also if I was going to go straight to the wall outlet could I plug them both in the same outlet? Any advice would be appreciated and thanks. I do plug my velodyne DD10 straight into the wall and bypass the surge protector, for some reason it sounds better.

dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
398 Posts
Hi.

I've noticed that some audio enthusiast prefer to have a separate stereo preamp along with their home theater pre/pro. A function called HT Bypass is used to play movies while 2 channel listening is done by the stereo preamp. Is this just for strictly audio purist or is there a big difference/advantage to this type of setup. For example: what is the difference between using say the Rotel RSP 1572 in bypass mode vs using the RC 1570 stereo preamplfier? Is it a night and day difference? Is it worth the extra money to go this route or is it a waste of money to use the RC 1570 in a system that uses the RSP 1572?

audiomanz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Replacing RMB-1095 with RMB-1585?

I just had one of my RMB-1095s die. I have a pair of them in my home theater setup. They have worked well for many years. I'm not sure what the issue is and perhaps its repairable. If not, I was wondering if I would be better off going with a RMB-1585 or finding a used RMB-1095. I can pick up the older unit for $1K. The new one lists for $3K. Is it a worthwhile upgrade or more or less a similar unit? Looking at pictures of the inside, it sure looks very similar layout wise. I also know that's not going to tell me the whole story.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
RC-1570 Pre-Amp Turns Off itself suddenly during play


This has happened twice in the last 2 days and I would like to see what others think may be the problem....

I have a new Rotel RC 1570 pre-amp. The unit would be on and playing. It would then shut off and on stand by mode without any interference. I thought one of my kids was playing with the remote while the unit was playing, but that was not the case. This has happened twice in the last 2 days. The first time was after probably 3 hours of play and the second time happened now just under 1 hour of play. I felt the unit and the unit temperature was warm but not hot.

I had the unit for less than a month and I always leave on stand-by mode in the off position when not in use.

Any idea what is going on?

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
^^ Speaker wires are touching each other or maybe heat (which you are already on the know)!
Thank you Tanman. I checked the speaker wires, they are not touching each other. But if the speaker wires were shorted, wouldn't the unit turn off immediately rather than after a few hours of play?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
My shoot from the hip response would have been to check the auto standby-mode setting, but you've done that already. Here are a few additional thoughts:

1. Make sure the software is the most recent version (probably is) which is V 1.38. If not, the update process is easy.
2. You might have some device in your living room that is capable of emitting the same IR code as the standby IR code for your RC-1590. This kind of stuff happens all the time.
3. There is something wrong with your RC-1570. #2 is more likely considering the large sample population of RC-1570's I've seen in operation in the field.

Regards,

Patrick Butler
B&W Group North America
Bowers & Wilkins | Classé Audio | Rotel

RC-1570 Pre-Amp Turns Off itself suddenly during play


This has happened twice in the last 2 days and I would like to see what others think may be the problem....

I have a new Rotel RC 1570 pre-amp. The unit would be on and playing. It would then shut off and on stand by mode without any interference. I thought one of my kids was playing with the remote while the unit was playing, but that was not the case. This has happened twice in the last 2 days. The first time was after probably 3 hours of play and the second time happened now just under 1 hour of play. I felt the unit and the unit temperature was warm but not hot.

I had the unit for less than a month and I always leave on stand-by mode in the off position when not in use.

Any idea what is going on?

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
Hi WireBrat,

I had this discussion with Rotel's head of engineering a few years ago. The architecture of the RMB-1095 and RMB-1585 are very similar (why mess with what works?) but that is where the similarity ends. Every component from input to output was evaluated and many changes were made. Those include newer output devices, upgraded power supplies, upgraded capacitors and many more. I've not personally compared the 1095 to the 1585, but the reaction to the RMB-1585 has been very positive. That said, your amplifier can be repaired. Let me know if you need help with that.

Regards,

Patrick Butler
B&W Group North America
Bowers & Wilkins | Classé Audio | Rotel

I just had one of my RMB-1095s die. I have a pair of them in my home theater setup. They have worked well for many years. I'm not sure what the issue is and perhaps its repairable. If not, I was wondering if I would be better off going with a RMB-1585 or finding a used RMB-1095. I can pick up the older unit for $1K. The new one lists for $3K. Is it a worthwhile upgrade or more or less a similar unit? Looking at pictures of the inside, it sure looks very similar layout wise. I also know that's not going to tell me the whole story.
 
1741 - 1760 of 2013 Posts
Top